Scary stuff going on

Status
Not open for further replies.
The best advice is get her to a range where she can try different models. Most women will want something that doesn't recoil much, but with training will accept a reasonable caliber. Having said that, don't force something on her that she's scared of. A .22 is a heck of a lot better than nothing.

If it has to be a .22, don't shoot stingers, they are lightweight hollowpoints designed to expand quickly and blow up squirrels, etc. You want to get maximum penetration out of a .22lr in humans. Use CCI Velocitors or MiniMag solids. Either are very high quality and reliable.

See if you can push her to .22mag at least, and again choosing heavyweight bullets. A Bersa .380 CC is an excellent weapon, reliable, accurate, more powerful than a .38sp snubby and more concealable too. Make sure she can rack the slide if she wants an auto. Women typically have problems in this area. There are techniques to help women rack the slides, one is to grasp the slide with an over hand grip with the support hand (this usually involves holding the pistol broadside in front of her, and apply force with her primary hand instead of or in addition to her support hand to rack the slide.

Taurus revolvers are decent guns. It's so easy to disparage an entire line because of a small number of examples if it happens to be an inexpensive brand. High end guns like Kimbers, etc. need service all the time but you don't hear people trashing them on the internet. A Taurus revolver is a good choice, but I don't recommend their automatics. Not because they aren't reliable, but because Taurus customer service is among the worst on the planet, and an auto is just going to be more prone to needing service at some point than a revolver.
 
Does Mom have the will to pull trhe trigger?

Before you get your mom anything, find out if she has the will to pull the trigger. Without hesttation.

Handguns (or any other firearm) are not the only answer to problems of self protection. They are handy, and offer many advantages over the competition, but only if the person holding one has the will to pull the trigger. Without hesitation.

I'm personally convinced rthat all those stories of folks who had their guns taken away by their attacker come from encounters with folks who hesitated or refused to pull the trigger.

I know "we" have all resolved the question in our own minds. But what about these folks "we" are recommending get a gun? Have "we" determined that they are completely, irrevocably and without reservation committed to causing death or great bodily harm when the same is threatened against them? If there is any question about that, "we" have no business suggesting they arm themselves.

If there is a question about their resolve, that issue needs to be addressed before anything else is suggested. Based on the answer to that question, "we" can begin to offer guidance, advice and opinions on what they might do to increase their chances of self protection.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
I'll second or third Pax's web site, The Cornered Cat. Also, I'd like to point out that if one of your loved ones, whether male or female, wants to explore shooting/firearm possession for whatever reason, point them in the right direction and let them explore and decide their needs in conjunction with someone who can properly help them make a decision, such as an NRA instructor.

A firearm is a tool or implement that should best see to each individual's needs. One would not recommend an particular piece of intimate apparel for one's wife/sister/girlfriend. So please don't think that you should make that decision with respect to firearms.

Just my .02 cents.
 
Every time someone asks this question they open up a can of worms. I personally think it is slightly sexist to assume that because she is a woman she would only like a .22.

It wasn't a sexist suggestion. If you want to turn off a new shooter before ya get'em started, hand'em a .357 Magnum. Once they've become comfortable with the idea, they can step up a few notches if they wish.

A .22 revolver has much to offer. The guns are normally small, light, and portable...so they're not as likely to be left at home instead of where they need to be.

Recoil and muzzle blast is mild, which encourages regular practice. Ditto for the ammo cost. An adept hand with a .22 is a force to be reckoned with.
 
A member of the church I go to had a scary experience on friday. Some people followed her in their car for about 20 miles. Once she realized she was being followed she called here dad and he called the cops and waited in his truck. She drove by her house and once she and her followers went by her dad started following in his truck. All of a sudden the people in the car stoped, got out, and started smashing up her dads truck with a baseball bat. The cops got there before it got any worse. Once they arrested them, the searched their car. THey had several metal pipes, knives, and baseball bats.

Please excuse me while I go back to the beginning with the quote above.

How many people were in the car?
Did they say anything once the police arrived about what they were up to or why they were following the woman? (Please don't anyone else give assumptions or presumptions here.)
Did any of the people in the car have prior convictions?

The reason I ask is to better understand the situation.

As to what should be recommended based only upon the quoted text?
To start with how about some defensive/evasive driving tactics?
Next, since the quoted text doesn't mention how many people were in the BG's car it is hard to either recommend a defensive firearm or a defensive tactic other than escape and evade until help arrives.
Next is some defensive training in general, with and without weapons.

I try not to let one incident drive my decisions, I do try to learn however from what I do know about incidents.

Why didn't the guy in the following pickup hit his reverse when the BG's got out?
Why didn't he just ram their car assuming the car wasn't some 1970's tank and his pickup some little tin lunchbox truck?
Why, well, too many "whys" in this one. I'll go sit in a corner and see if any new info comes to light.
 
In general: Itty bitty guns are difficult to shoot well. Snubbies, keltecs, etc, all verge on being "experts' guns." They're portable and they're "cute," so a lot of people assume that they're good for a lady to start on. Problem is that they're tricky enough to shoot for someone who already knows how. Trying to teach someone on a gun like that is making things needlessly difficult. It can be done, with patience, a skilled instructor, and the will to succeed on the part of the student, but it's not easy.

As for carrying goes, guns are not magical talismans. They should not be carried in the hope that just showing it to the attacker will frighten him away. They are weapons, and any weapon that you don't know how to use, or don't have the will to use, belongs to your enemy, not to you. Make sure she's got the skill and the will.

As for getting the skill, at the beginning, noise and recoil are the enemy, particularly for female shooters. Neither one is something that the human body particularly appreciates. Therefore, a big part of the learning curve is getting the body acclimated to those forces. I've found that a graduated approach works best. Start with something on the order of a .22 target pistol, to develop basic skills, like sight picture, stance, breath control, and trigger control. Once these things start to come easily, without a lot of concious thought, then start to move on up through the calibers, whilst staying with a decent sized pistol. I've had good luck with the 1911 platform, beginning with 9MM, then .38 Super, then eventually, the full up .45. Once the fullsize gun in fullsize caliber has become relatively easy to shoot, then move back down in size till the final goal of a carryable package has been reached. It takes time, a lot of ammo, and a couple different guns, but the results are worth it.

~~~Mat
 
Skidmark, I agree with you on the resolve issue. No gun, not even an elephant rifle, is worthwhile unless it is supported by resolve. I fear too many people gloss over this issue on their way to discuss the technical aspects of firearms. Certainly, there is a place for technical concerns. In fact we debate them daily on THR. But the first and foremost issue concerning a defensive firearm is the willingness of a person to use it. Without this resolve, all other discussions pale into insignificance.


Timthinker
 
Nuke 'em from high orbit, it's the only way to be sure!.

Get her someting that fits here hand and won't take her wrist off and make sure she gets in plenty of range time. I'd lean toward a smaller, not necessarily snub nosed revolver in .38/.357 and start out with light target loads.
 
Back to reliability for a second.

I bet most of the time, the rimfires' failure to fire is due to dirt remaining under the rim when a round is chambered, dirt in the firing pin channel, or a dented chamber.

The toothbrush is the .22's friend.
 
22s :barf::mad::banghead::banghead::banghead:

stingers for defense??? no! a longtime ago i used them until they failed to penetrate the skull of a dear needing the mercy of death. if you have to use a 22 use a brand name match solid bullet.22s need to penetrate to reach vitals u may have to go thru a arm. match ammo is best because those are the rounds with the best quality control and the least likely to dud on u.

centerfires are far better,the max caliber she ccan control the best!

yes 22s kill many and fill graveyards but more often than not the bg is buryed a few days after he kills the person who shot him with what is a entertainment/small game /pest control(small pests!)cartridge.

if your good enough to get it into the eyesocket everytime! go 4 it.
 
if your good enough to get it into the eyesocket everytime! go 4 it.

A lady carrying a .22 for self defense isn't likely to be taking aim and trying to hit an eye socket...or a head...or anything else. Whe it comes, it will likely be up close and very personal. Think of a muzzle pressed to your groin and feeling those Stingers rip through what's left of your package.
 
How many people were in the car?
2
Did they say anything once the police arrived about what they were up to or why they were following the woman?
No
Did any of the people in the car have prior convictions?
don't know

I am not so much interested in what kind of gun as I am in what kind of carry so any input on that would be really apreciated.
 
Snubbies, keltecs, etc, all verge on being "experts' guns."

True, it's always funny to see people's reaction when they squeeze off that first 9mm out of my K-T P11. They never associated 9mm and tingling palms before.

But a heavier .357mag revolver loaded with .38spl's doesn't kick much at all, simple to use, doesn't jam. I'm thinking maybe Ruger SP101, no hammer, fits in a purse.

A lot of dumb-a___es look at my P11 and think it's not a gun to be feared, it's smaller than most toy guns, limited deterrent factor. The .357 revolver OTOH much better deterrent factor.
 
In almost 21 years as a veteran LEO, I have seen more persons killed with
bullets of .22 LR caliber; than all other caliber's combined~! In most cases,
the victim never bleeds out; and lots of times only a medical examiner can
find the entrance wound~!

And Ebola has killed nearly every person infected, but I'm not gonna inject the BG with it and say "Ha, you're gonna die from this".

Defensive shooting means stopping the threat. Whether they die now or hours later is of little consequence. I don't care if they die at all, so long as they are STOPPED!. And for that, a .22 is not adequate.
 
Ok, new question. Is it legal to carry a loaded gun in your car without a permit?

In OH, no. Check your state and local laws. Not being a resident of WY, I don't want to interpret the laws for that state in case of misunderstanding.

WY Codes
 
I'm more interested just who these bozos were and what their grudge was. As far as what caliber, that is pretty much for her to decide.... If at all.
good luck
-bix
 
Ok, new question. Is it legal to carry a loaded gun in your car without a permit?

http://nraila.org/GunLaws/#?st=WY

http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/dci/CWP.html

When asking legal type questions it is usually best to go to the source or to an attorney. Kind of hard to supoena the internet to come to your defense in a trial. ;)

As to what sort of carry method, think software more than hardware. Tactics and training will usually win out over specific tools. For example, in the initial situation mentioned, would it have been possible for the woman to drive to a police station instead of past her house? It appears she had a cell phone with her, could she have called 911 and told the dispatcher she was being criminally followed by two potential attackers and ask where she could go to intercept an officer, or she could have called the family member and said to intercept her on such-and-such street or in a grocery store parking lot by the main doors.

As to how you can defend yourself from a situation like this you first have to assess the situation. You won't know if the suspects have guns themselves nor how well trained they might be. Could they have a rifle or shotgun in the trunk accessible by a simply reach-in thru the backseat of their car? Rifle in the trunk in a softcase with the buttend zipper foreward, ammo in a lunchbox on the rearseat floor, lean back the front passenger seat, pull down the center rear seat pad opening the access to the trunk, unzip the case and remove the rifle, open the lunchbox on the floor and remove a loaded magazine, chamber a round, car stopped now as you have stopped to confront them, passenger in bad guy car with seat still layed back opens passenger door and rolls out using door as cover and brings his now loaded and ready rifle to bare down on you, you standing there with a .45acp telling them to back off, BG passenger has a .308 leveled at your head or chest. Who wins?

Tactics and training beat caliber and capacity almost everytime, YMMV.

Without knowing what triggered the woman's becomming a target it is nearly impossible to know how to train for avoiding it in the first place. Could have been a dirty look, a scared look, she could have grabbed the last filled doughnut at the local handimart/gas-station, could be totally random. All you can do is to generally upgrade your own personal awareness. There have been many discussions about shooting while driving, here and elsewhere on the web, and generally it is a bad idea. There are always exceptions, but generally it is a bad idea and is usually better to drive and evade and escape than to engage and shoot or shoot back. A firearm inside the car is for when someone approaches you in the car while stopped, or for carry when going to and from the car. There are many options on where and how to mount or carry a firearm while driving, some legal, some not, depending upon your location and personal situation/status. Not knowing your background, and with me not being a self-professed expert in the field, I'll leave others to armchair coach you from their computers and web stations.

Also, I'm fairly sure there is someone competant in the Green River or Rock Springs area who can readily help you in gaining situational awareness, but if not then there surely is over in Evanston. It's kind of like bicycle racing in a way, if you're not tuned into the "scene" then you probably don't know there's a race nearby, but once you're tuned in then there's not enough time to hit them all. Got no idea if any of these are any good, but they were found with a quick google search on: handgun training wyoming.
http://www.wyomingfa.com/
http://www.scotsdown.com/NRA_Frame.htm
http://www.dlsports.com/
http://www.spudguns.net/
http://www.martialartsresource.com/firearms.htm

Hope this helps some.
Stay safe.
 
When I was a working gunsmith back in the Early Paleocene I had a good impression of Bersas. May I also suggest a Makarov? Slightly more crunch than a .380 and mine has been completely reliable. It is a great balance of size, power, functional accuracy, and hand fit for me. Get 'em now- the prices are going up.
 
Revjen-

Quiet about the prices going up! I wanna grab up as many as I can before that happens...
 
I can't believe you guys are arguing about the 22's power after the latest school shooting(s) using a 22. Come on.

Also the revolver's beauty is the ability to fire the next round without the first one going off. Bad round? Pull the trigger again.

This is a *really* old S&W Model 36 J frame. Yesterday I put Hogue Bantam grips on it, really transformed the little 38. She might want to try one of these out as Smith is still making them in all steel. Skip the lightweight versions.
imgp1494ef6.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top