Scenario from an incident today

[LASur5r]

Like to hear your opinions and ideas about this situation.

Yesterday, we were allowed to openly state things that work and things that don't work in our office with a facilitator there and our administrator as well as our first line supervisor. The facilitator commented that we were professional and stated the conditions clearly with no emotion.
Early this morning the first line supervisor started jumping on one of the guys who spoke up yesterday. He knew that the man was stressed from the nature of our work (code enforcement officers) and what tension has been going on in our office between the supervisor and the field guys.
Well, the supervisor kept pushing and pushing the guy verbally and berated him in front of the staff.
Suddenly, the officer broke and started to defend himself verbally. Both the supervisor, then the officer responding to the movement of the supervisor, went for their waistbands....we are not allowed to carry for our work, even though we are in dangerous locations everyday.
The supervisor came up with a heavy key chain and the officer came up with a knife clipped to his belt.
Standoff time.
Of course, a bunch of us jumped in to separate the two. Now we know further retaliation will follow.

What else could be done? What would you have done?
What if these were knives in both men's hands or even guns....what would you do?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and opinions.

 

[FPrice]

Personally I think you've got a BIG problem there. But I guess you already knew that.

The supervisor was out of line. He started a very unprofessional act in front of people and in my opinion was guilty of conduct unbecoming a supervisor and needs to be brought up on this.

Not knowing the full range of dynamics in your office I would hazard a guess that if firearms were present it might not have gotten so bad. I would hope that the presence of firearms would cause both the supervisor to be a little more circumspect in his actions and the employee to try harder to retain his composure. The fact that these items are just slightly less capable of being brought to bear at a beyond arms length distance may have helped save the day. But this does not minimize the seriousness of the fact that weapons were displayed.

Do you have a Union, or any sort of access to a higher echelon of management? This incident needs to be reported and someone needs to come in, take charge, and cool things off NOW.

It sounds like someone recognized the fact that there were problems in your office and tried to calm things by bringing in the facilitator. That person may be the one who needs to know what happened.

Good luck, I hope you can defuse the problem before we read about another workplace violence incident.

 

[TimRB]

Maybe I'm just a wimp, but I would *never* get between two guys fighting with weapons, especially a knife.

Tim

 

[Chipperman]

"What else could be done?"

Stand back and place bets? Sorry, I thought this needed a little levity.

That's a very scary situation.

Sounds like everyone else jumped in when the weapons came out. That's good, but potentially dangerous.

Did anyone try to help defuse it before they snapped?

 

[Thumper]

What if these were knives in both men's hands or even guns....what would you do?

Tools aren't the problem...the attitude is.

There's a lot to criticize about my critique here, but I'd feel a lot better about these two if they just got to fightin' without the hardware.

Whatever happened to the gratuitous office fistfight?

Why don't we have a wistful smiley?

 

[MeekandMild]

Icy water, cooled to about 40 degrees, several gallons of it. A high pressure fire hose is ideal if the water isn't too warm.

 

[Josey]

911. Arrest and prosecute. Post-trial hearing preceding dismissal of both parties involved. Help wanted ad in the paper.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...the supervisor kept pushing and pushing the guy verbally and berated him in front of the staff.

It's okay to deliver praise publicly, but criticism should always be delivered privately. The supervisor needs to be called in on the carpet in a serious way.

You couldn't pay me to jump between two people in a fight.

 

[c_yeager]

Tell your administrator that your line supervisor just screwed him out of EVER getting a straight answere out of his people again. I think that at least ONE of the problems here will be heading out the door.

 

[cxm]

ADW?

Isn't drawing a knife on someone the same as drawing a gun?

Can you spell ADW?

The guy should go swear out a warrant for the guy with the kinfe.... THEN go see a doc about your mental stress from a hostile workplace.

The guy will then get rid of the problem and probably wind up with a nice piece of pocket change as well.

FWIW

Chuck

 

[BluesBear]

OK let me see if I got this straight...

There were only 2 people involved?

#1 is berating #2 in front of everyone else.

#2 finally having enough starts talking back.

#1 reaches for his waist and pulls a ¿¿¿keychain???

#2 reacting to a perceived threat from #1 pulls a knife.


If so #1 should be fired, but #2 is in deep doo-doo.

 

[Ryder]

we were allowed to openly state things that work and things that don't work in our office with a facilitator there and our administrator as well as our first line supervisor

You guys want to buy a bridge?

Management has turned to anonymous web polls here since everybody quit talking to them. Pretty obvious they aren't looking for improvement, just looking to see if our attitudes are ripe enough yet for another stab in the back. Screw them, I just don't care for thieves. They've been pulling this crap on us for a good 10 years now. Must think we are blind?

I'd have watched the two fools in your scenario and not seen a thing. There is not a single person at work I'd trust with anything.

 

[joab]

Supervisor should be fired ,or at the very least demoted and transfered out if possible.

A true boss will never attempt to humiliate or browbeat a subordinate in front of others.

A rational human being does not pull a weapon, even a heavy key chain that could be used as a bludgeon during, a verbal dispute.

The subordinate's actions were a rational reaction to an irrational situation

 

[Tom Servo]

What state are you in? I know that most states have laws (and most companies have policies) regarding workplace violence, including threats.

If I were in charge, the Supervisor'd be gone. Today. He just hopped the fence into lawsuit country. Harrassment is defined as anything that creates a "hostile working environment," and his behavior certainly qualifies. What's more, he's shown the willingness to come to blows. Anybody in that room could sue him (and the company) for a great deal of money the next time he so much as raises his voice (it would be an implied threat based on previously-displayed tendencies).

The other guy should be (separately) loudly chewed out and at great length, but the only disciplinary action I'd choose would be a piece of documentation to stick in his file in case this happens again, with the understanding that it WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN, RIGHT? This is just a legal CYA, and it should be made clear to him that that's all it is.

No, I'm not a lawyer, but I was once in a situation where a regional manager called and berated two of my employees on a personal level over something I'd overlooked, and was entirely my fault. I almost lost two good people over that, and the suits turned a deaf ear. A week later, he accosted another manager, calling him a few homophopic slurs and threatening to beat him with brass knuckles (again, over the phone). He later confessed to me that he had an anger-management problem. No joke. Of course, this was in court, when a third employee sued both him (for about $30K) and the company (for a VERY large settlement). Since the company knew and failed to act, they were held largely responsible. And this guy hadn't actually physically threatened.

If it hasn't already been done, I'd recommend that you, or someone else not directly involved, bring this to the attention of the highest person in your company you can.

 

[Mannlicher]

In any workplace I ever was in, that would result in the loss of two jobs. It SHOULD result in two firings.

 

[Nick_90]

My advice if to guys holding guns or knives are fighting is just to call the police. Trying to intervene is the best way to get wounded or wound someone else and then be accountable for that. Just call the cops...
It tried once to separate two knife fighters and got sligthly wounded. Served me right!