School me on F-Class Competition, Please.

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DogBonz

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So, I’ve been wanting to get into some structured competitive shooting for a while now, and from what I’ve heard, ”F-Class” is, and I may be wrong here, basically “heads-up” type shooting. What I mean by that is you shoot what you brought, and I shoot what I bought. I have done a little research, and I got the basic rules, but the sites that I visited don’t tell you how to join, or compete. Can anyone enlighten me on this type of competition? What will be up against? Any thoughts on what works best? I have my 6.5 Grendel, and planned on playing with that, but am unsure if it would be a good idea, or if I need a bolt gun.

Also, in the “stock” or “factory” class you need to shoot off the shelf type rifles. Now you are allowed to modify certain things, but no muzzle brakes. My question is what if your “factory” rifle came from the factory with a muzzle brake, do you have to take it off, or are you not allowed to use that rifle, or what?:scrutiny:

Any help and or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Fred
 
oh yea,

the reason that I ask about muzzle brakes is that I was thinking of a Sako TRG.

Thanks
 
F-Class is basically run what you brung. A gas gun shooting 6.5 grendel probably won't be competitive vs. the 30" barrelled Panda Actioned 6.5x284. If it's what you got however, shoot it. If your gun shoots sub-MOA it's accurate enough, F-class will be about wind reading and shooting from a stable position.

Shooting a 6.5 grendel you'll be doing quite a bit better than the 308 shooters (in terms of wind drift).

If you like it, by all means purchase a 3000 dollar custom boltgun.

atek3
 
There is no "stock" class although there is one being discussed in Canada.

As of early December - the last I shot - there was F-T/R which allows only .223 or .308, on a bipod with rear sandbag, any scope, weight limit 18 lbs including scope and bipod (Actually a bit over due to spec in kilograms.)

Make of the T/R what you will, NRA says "Target/Rifle", but it sure looks like "Tactical/Rifle" to me; I know one guy shoots a Remington in an AAI chassis with a can, which nobody says anything about, although I saw one guy requuired to remove his muzzle brake.

Then there is F-Open which allows any caliber - the US National Team shoots 6.5x284 but there are some 6mms, other 6.5s and leftover .300 magnums - any rest that does not connect front and rear support or return to battery, any scope, and a 22 lb (10kg) weight limit, not including the front rest if it is not attached to the gun. Sometimes known as "belly benchrest."

Me?
I am pretty much a casual occasional recreational F-T/R shooter with a .308 Savage and a flattop AR I have been trying to make into a Long Range rifle with 28" fast twist barrel and 90 gr VLD bullets.

Range is usually the longest available at a given site. 1000 yards if you have it.
NRA put out a new target as of November. They were worried about F-class, mostly the F-Open guys, shooting possibles and maybe even X-possibles on the regular Long Range targets. So the dedicated F-class target has a 1 MOA ten ring and a 1/2 MOA X ring. That doesn't sound too tough when you can buy a hunting rifle that will shoot three or five rounds well under an inch at 100 yards, but the rules change when you get out there in the breeze and are firing 20 round matches at a ten inch ten ring at 1000 yards.

I don't know the ballistics on a Grendel; how far will it drive a bullet supersonic? You can pretty well forget about hitting anything with a subsonic spitzer or boattail. Some ranges do not even allow the 168 gr .308 because it drops subsonic about 900 yards and can be very erratic at 1000.
It would no doubt serve very well at 600.

There are match schedules on that Long Range board and in the NRA competition publication (the NRA website is hard to find much on.)
Most Long Range matches will have F-class shooting alongside the coat, sling, and glove "conventional" target shooters, all that is required is putting up the right target.
 
Can anyone enlighten me on this type of competition? What will be up against? Any thoughts on what works best? I have my 6.5 Grendel, and planned on playing with that, but am unsure if it would be a good idea, or if I need a bolt gun.

Also, in the “stock” or “factory” class you need to shoot off the shelf type rifles. Now you are allowed to modify certain things, but no muzzle brakes. My question is what if your “factory” rifle came from the factory with a muzzle brake, do you have to take it off, or are you not allowed to use that rifle, or what?
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DogBonz,

As Zak said, muzzle brakes are not allowed. If you rifle has one, you can remove it. There is no stock or factory class, only a F-T/R class (restricted to either .223 or .308 and shot from a bipod) and an Open class in which your 6.5 Grendel would compete. While F Class is dominated by 6.5mm and 6mm bolt action rifles, you can have alot of fun in this sport and learn an awful lot about shooting LR in the wind. A good scope with alot of W&E adjustment mounted on a 20MOA base is a necessity. Hope that helps.

Don
 
Thanks everyone

I'm sorry, I used the terms "stock" and "factory" but what I meant was Mass-Produced. I got it from the following web site:
http://f-classinfo.com/page6/page6.html

it states:
This class will be restricted to mass-produced rifles of any caliber that can be purchased readily at many gun shops and that have not been customized to improve ballistic performance. F(M) is for people shooting ‘out-of-the-box’ rifles; Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage, Tikka, Browning, Sako, Bushmaster, Armalite, or similar, using the original manufacturers parts. Mass Arsenal produced military weapons would fall into this category (guns such as a Swedish Mauser).
Click to expand...

I cheched out (and registered and posted on) the site that Zak recomended, but as of yet, have not had any responses.

For those who asked, here's the specs on the Grendel:

The 123 Lapua Scenar stays super sonic a little past 1200 yards. At 1000 yards she is still truckin along at 1300FPS.

I have been under 1/2 MOA at 200 yards (best of a hair under .25MOA), and about 1 MOA at 600Yds.

I'm thinking that if I can compete with the Grendel long enough to learn the rules, I can step up from there. Thank you everyone for the info From those who shoot F Class, is the Sako TRG a viable option, or should I be looking at a custom remi action? Also what caliber do you guys suggest?

Thanks again-

Fred
 
A lot more rifles can shoot 1/2 MOA @ 1000 yards than shooters can. I would recommend shooting what you have provided it's remotely appropriate.

I will probably hit some F-class matches this year, just for more LR practice. I'll shoot my suppressed .260 Rem (AI-AW), and I know that can hold 1/2 @ 1000 if I don't screw up wind calls.
 
Not to sound like an ignorant clod, but how would a Yugo M48 Mauser with ramp sight fit in? I'm a person of limited means, and would like to get into more competition shooting. Can't do NRA High Power, since I don't own and can't afford any US service rifles. :(
 
Not to sound like an ignorant clod, but how would a Yugo M48 Mauser with ramp sight fit in? I'm a person of limited means, and would like to get into more competition shooting. Can't do NRA High Power, since I don't own and can't afford any US service rifles.
Click to expand...
You could shoot your Mauser in high power, just check the box that says "Match Rifle" on your score card and you're good to go.

F-Class is one of those rare exceptions where only telescopic sights are allowed, so I don't think your rifle would be legal as an "F-Class rifle," but it's most certainly a match rifle. I don't know how effective it would be at 1000 yards either.
 
DogBonz

The business about "mass produced" is for a local event by the Benchrest Club of St Louis and is not an NRA rule in general use in, say, New Jersey. Go to his F-Class Info page for the NRA rules as distinct from the St Louis rules.
If your Grendel shoots like you say, it will get you started in F-class. If you get to a 1000 yard match you will likely need a tapered or canted scope mount to zero; or a scope with a whale of a lot of elevation left above 1000 yards. A .308 is about 34 MOA from 100 to 1000; your 6.5 will likely be flatter but not by a whole lot.

Quentin, Dionysusigma

F-class is not scope sight only, it is any sight and I have seen shooters using their service, match, and Palma rifles with iron sights to shoot in F-class.
I must say a military Mauser would be at a great disadvantage in F-class at 600+ yards or even in highpower at 200, 300, 600. But you can still shoot, if you want to.
There ARE military rifle matches where everybody is shooting surplus something or another that will put you in contention.
 
ahha

he business about "mass produced" is for a local event by the Benchrest Club of St Louis and is not an NRA rule in general use in, say, New Jersey.
Click to expand...

Ok, so diferent states, or associations have different rules for the same class? Is that right? If so, it would explain the different info that I have been finding.
 
Jim Watson:I must say a military Mauser would be at a great disadvantage in F-class at 600+ yards or even in highpower at 200, 300, 600. But you can still shoot, if you want to.
Click to expand...
At this point, with my not being able to find much out there (see this thread) I'd be happy for anything remotely near "real-world" experience. I've never won a competition anyway, so losing is the least of my concerns. 'Sides, if I came in last, that'd mean that nobody else'd have to... :neener:
There ARE military rifle matches where everybody is shooting surplus something or another that will put you in contention.
Click to expand...
What sorts? Where can I find more info?
 
Dog

The St Louis "mass produced" division is stated to be in addition to the NRA F-T/R and F-Open classes for matches on their range. I don't know about other local rules, and would not worry about it. These things are based on local conditions and the interests of the members. I have shot BPCR silhouette at St Louis and the targets are not at the standard distances. Drove some guys nuts when their zeroes were not on target. I was fortunate enough to get there a day early the first time and shoot til I got new sight settings.
Ask when you get there, you could always enter your Grendel in F-Open and shoot, even if there is not an "F-semiautomatic proprietary calibre" class.

I think the main thing is to have a zero at the longest range you can get to and have ballistic chart data for the "comeups" to longer ranges. The experienced hands will help you get on target but it will make your and their job a lot easier if you are working from hard data.

Diony

Sorry, I am away from home on a borrowed computer and do not have the resources to find you a milsurp match. Call the area NRA representative for a start.
 
DogBonz,

I see where you are located in New Jersey. You might want to come out to Williamsport, PA for one of their F Class shoots when they start in April. It's a few hours travel time for you, but we have a guy who travels from NYC every year to shoot there. Guarantee you will leave the event with that 1k smile.:)

Don
 
The williamsport shoots are a lot of fun and you can learn a lot from the guys there, they are very helpfull and will take the time to explain things not just say you need this and this and that. If your have the wife and kids you can rent a cabin at Knoebels grove(a free admission amusement park 30mins away that doesn't mind guns) for the price of a hotel and make a weekend out of it.

Diony,

there are many sportsmans/shooting/gun clubs that have their own Mil-Surp rifle shoots, at least here in Pa. They're basically limited to guns before the advent of the M-16 with open sights shooting at ranges out to 2-300yds for straight match shooting and team (Axis and Allies).
 
USSR

Thanks. Do you know where I can get more info on this shoot? I am really interested, and would like to learn more. I checked out the NRA page, but man was that thing confusing.

Crapquest says that it's about 3.5 hours form my house to Williamsport, PA so it is a small hike, but my roommate form college lives about an hour away from me, and he is kinda on the way, so I could probaly go out and stay with him and his GF, and then hit the road in the morning, shaving an hour to an hour and a half off the total trip, so it sounds do-able, and it gives my old roomie and I an excuse to have a beer or two (firearms safely locked up, of course), or... maybe I can get hin to tag along if I can pry him away from the GF for a while (heheh).

The longest range by me is 300 meters, and last time I shot 600yds was in the summer, and I haven't shot 600-800yds since college:what: . Looks like I need to bone up a bit, huh? Also, there have been some new bullets that have come out in 6.5mm, so it looks like 'ole Bonz got some homework to do.:D

Everyone, once again, thank you for the help and info.
 
USSR

If I have to shoot for a magazine, then I would be shooting the 123 Lapua Scenar at about 2630fps with a B.C. of .547. or a 108gr Scenar @ 2700 with a B.C. of 481.

If I can load one at a time, then there are other, higher B.C. bullets that I can load, that will fire well, but that will not fit in the magazine. For instance, she can push a Berger 130gr VLD @2500fps with a .595 B.C. or a 140 VLD @ 2250fps with a .640 B.C.

These are middle of the middle of the road loads, and these are listed values, but I do not have a chrony, so I can't know for sure. But if you can give me that info I would be grateful, as all of the chart that I have use all kinds of crazy zeros.
 
USSR

I've been doing a little homework, and, if I carefully max it out, she can push a 132 lost river match bullet at almost 2600fps with a .702 B.C. That might be a winner!
 
1. F-class is slowfire, 20 or 30 minutes for 20 shots, so single loading is normal.

2. Read up on the Long Range boards about shooters' experience with Lost River bullets before you fall in love with their high B.C.

3. Me? I shoot JLK 90 gr VLDs in my attempt at a Long Range .223. The similar Bergers are equal. My .308 does as well with Sierras at lower cost.
 
Jim

Thanks for the heads up. I'm at work right now, so this is the only forum that I can get access to. What issues are folks having with the Lost River bullets? I'll most likely just stick with the 123 Lapua's unless I can do som big time testing and get or borrow a Chrony to varify my results. The 123's work well, are very accurate and consistant, so they are not a bad fall-back plan.
 
DogBonz,

You will be single loading them, so load them long. As Jim Watson said, there is alot of bad press concerning the Lost River bullets. I will be shooting my 6.5x55 in which I use 142SMK's at 2925fps. The Lapua 139gr Scenars are also a good bullet. Whatever load you settle on, chronograph it and get back to me and I will tell you how to sight in at 100 yards for a 1k zero.

Don
 
USSR

I was just on the PA Bench Rest Club’s web site, and under # 6 of their general rules they state:

“No caliber larger than 40 caliber may be used on the range at any time. Any equipment thought to be unsafe, harmful, destructive, or otherwise unpredictable will not be allowed on the range at any time. Examples include, but are not limited to: tracer, incendiary, or explosive projectiles, and use of auto loading weapons.”

It’s the last three words of that paragraph that worry me. “No auto loading weapons”. Does that mean that I can’t shoot my Grendel because it is an AR design? Or do they mean automatic weapons, aka machineguns? I am going to contact them to be sure, but I was just wondering if you knew off of the top of your head.
 
DogBonz,

I believe it refers to fully automatic weapons. I know for a fact that you can shoot a semi-auto because there are always people there with M1A's and such. No problem using your AR15-based Grendel.

Don
 
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