Scope adjustment or holdover

[LoonWulf]

That you all. Not quite the answers I was looking for. This whole problem is not making adjustments to get on target ot figuring out "DOPE".

The whole issue is in making the fine adjustment to bring the scope on ZERO. When one click up or down is too much or one click right or left is too much. Guess that would be trying to meet a Dead Hold. That is what I ran into last weekend. Not being able to make a Dead Hold for when I did I was out of the bull on every shot.

But I will work on my Hold and see if I can improve.

Always pick a bay with wind blowing then youll neverr notice your off zero!

I dont think any of mine actually shoot exactly to poa, I don't shoot any of them well enough to tell either

 

[kmw1954]

as it turned out, this only caused me to waste countless ammo and barrel life trying to get the scope perfectly adjusted. i was far better off just being within 1 click and not worrying about it.

That would be fine and dandy if I wasn't trying to shoot for scores on a target. This was last weeks target @200yds., shots in the red do not score. Here I was trying to hold-off instead of a Dead Hold. Final score was 129/200. Not very good hey?

 

[12Bravo20]

Sorry haven't advanced that far.

All it takes is practice. I like having my rimfire rifles setup just like my centerfire rifles so that I can practice with cheaper ammo.

 

[kmw1954]

Always pick a bay with wind blowing then youll neverr notice your off zero!

I dont think any of mine actually shoot exactly to poa, I don't shoot any of them well enough to tell either

I don't always hold POA either but I know I can shoot much better than that target I posted above.
I am starting to believe that if I would have just kept to a Dead Hold I would have shot a better score and wouldn't have had all those shots off target.

 

[LoonWulf]

I don't always hold POA either but I know I can shoot much better than that target I posted above.
I am starting to believe that if I would have just kept to a Dead Hold I would have shot a better score and wouldn't have had all those shots off target.

How was the wind effecting your poi?

 

[taliv]

That would be fine and dandy if I wasn't trying to shoot for scores on a target. This was last weeks target @200yds., shots in the red do not score. Here I was trying to hold-off instead of a Dead Hold. Final score was 129/200. Not very good hey?

View attachment 1054071

maybe we're talking about different things, but

1. i always held and never dialed wind. and holding off half a tenth is barely going to be a line of white from the crosshair anyway. it should be pretty easy

2. nothing on those targets appear to have anything to do with 1 click being not enough or too much. 1 click is less than an inch at that distance. half an inch if you're worried it's too much or not enough. I'm not familiar with those targets but guess they're about 4" across? plus, your groups have almost as much vertical as horizontal in them, so I'd say the issue is shooter, ammo, rifle, wind in about that order, with scope adjustment being way low on the list

 

[kmw1954]

I'm not familiar with those targets but guess they're about 4" across? plus, your groups have almost as much vertical as horizontal in them, so I'd say the issue is shooter, ammo, rifle, wind in about that order, with scope adjustment being way low on the list

I am not going to disavow the shooter as I know I need work. Plus I do also know that the rifle and ammo are much more precise that this.

These targets are shot round robin, one shot at each target and then repeat X3 for a total of 4 shots on each target. Start bottom Left and rotate up, over, down. When looking at the first target the very first shot was off target and marked with the arrow. That was a hold-over hold-off. Second target was still high right. The as the targets progressed the more discouraged and frustrated I became. And wind was at a minimum that day and had little to do with my shooting.

So at that distance one click is .72" which may not be much for some experienced shooters and I freely and openly admit I am a novice, am not practiced or experienced at holding off.

 

[taliv]

are you saying you were holding over because you have a 100 yard zero and didn't know your 200 yard dope? that's completely different from what I thought you were saying.

does your reticle have hashes on it? if so, measure the distance from your first shot POI to POA with your reticle, then make that adjustment on your turrets, and from there on, just shoot at the bull without holding over.

if you don't have hashes on your reticle, then keep a ruler in your range bag and one of the targets and take a second to measure it out, convert to mils and make the adjustment. i.e. after the first or second target you shouldn't have to hold over anymore.

prepare ahead of time if you know the targets by measuring the rings and converting to mils, so you know how many mils each ring is worth. that way you can adjust quickly without a tape measure

 

[kmw1954]

Yes the scope has subtensions and I am still learning how to use them.

But on another thought regarding this target and last weeks shoot. In all this concentration on the scope it slipped my mind that I also learned something else I never really paid attention to. The night before I shot I scrubbed the barrel really well. Then after firing my 2 foulers and 3 sighters I found this gun likes to be shot dirty. Took 15 shots before it started to settle down. A lesson I soon won't forget.

When I returned home and showed that photo to my wife even she remarked," What happened?"

So going to move on and see what this eek brings.

 

[danez71]

I am not going to disavow the shooter as I know I need work. Plus I do also know that the rifle and ammo are much more precise that this.

These targets are shot round robin, one shot at each target and then repeat X3 for a total of 4 shots on each target. Start bottom Left and rotate up, over, down. When looking at the first target the very first shot was off target and marked with the arrow. That was a hold-over hold-off. Second target was still high right. The as the targets progressed the more discouraged and frustrated I became. And wind was at a minimum that day and had little to do with my shooting.

So at that distance one click is .72" which may not be much for some experienced shooters and I freely and openly admit I am a novice, am not practiced or experienced at holding off.

Just my humble advice... and suggestion.

I would recommend addressing consistency 1st.

Instead of shooting round robin, shoot 1 target holding consistent and get to consistent groups whether or not it's hitting bullseye. Repeat until you're getting consistent groups while holding consistent.

Dial adjustment & repeat keeping with the goal of holding consistent and getting consistent groups.

Repeat until your consistant groups are as close to bullseye as possible.

Then you can emphasize your focus on holdover by seeing where the last round hit & use that as where the next round will hit.

Keep repeating.... you'll learn holding by seeing it happen. You'll get to the point that you'll just aim at a different part of the 3/4" bullseye to hit where you want.

Then start a modified round robin. Start taking a small handful of shots at 1 target then move to the next. Repeat until your consistent groups are there for each target.

Then go to regular round robin.

 

[kmw1954]

Just my humble advice... and suggestion.

I would recommend addressing consistency 1st.

Instead of shooting round robin, shoot 1 target holding consistent and get to consistent groups whether or not it's hitting bullseye. Repeat until you're getting consistent groups while holding consistent..

You seemed to have missed the whole premise behind this. This is a League Competition and there are rules an procedures to be followed. This wasn't for practice!

 

[danez71]

You seemed to have missed the whole premise behind this. This is a League Competition and there are rules an procedures to be followed. This wasn't for practice!

No. Not at all. Perhaps you missed the premise of my reply.

Practice for when you do compete in the league.

 

[kmw1954]

No. Not at all. Perhaps you missed the premise of my reply..

OK, And what makes you think I don't already do that?

 

[danez71]

OK, And what makes you think I don't already do that?

Your post.

So at that distance one click is .72" which may not be much for some experienced shooters and I freely and openly admit I am a novice, am not practiced or experienced at holding off

 

[kalielkslayer]

Sometimes the issue can be between the ears. If your mind is on scope adjustments, you aren’t focusing on what really matters, sight picture, trigger squeeze, breath control.

Anyways, that has happened to me.

 

[Walkalong]

Confidence in ones equipment goes a long way.

 

[kmw1954]

Confidence in ones equipment goes a long way.

Rates right there with confidence in one's self.

Sorry for the late response been in bed with the Virus. Wife brought it home from work.

 

[jmorris]

Shots were wide left just outside the bull, one click moved impact to exactly the same distance outside the bull to the right.

So your first shot looked something like the one on the left, cross hair centered and impact to the left by the radius of the bullseye. Hold to the right side by the same amount and that will put impact in the center.



Or is it more complicated than that?


You can have crazy holds as long as you know where the bullet is going. For example this hold for a subsonic 458 load out at 300 yards, is many feet from the 100 yd zero.

 

[kmw1954]

jmorris your illustration is mostly correct in that I was also impacting to the top of the bull so if you would move the elevation straight down so that the windage was level with the bottom of the bull yet still in line like this. Only as I struggled frustration also crept in and it didn't go well.

I have learned a few things to work on after the league concludes to prepare for the next one.

 

[jmorris]

^ that hold should be pretty repeatable, __distance to the right and __distance down. Assuming your bullets normally, all go through the same hole.

Might even be a tighter hold vs trying to aim at the very center as you blow it out with multiple shots.

 

[kmw1954]

^ that hold should be pretty repeatable, __distance to the right and __distance down. Assuming your bullets normally, all go through the same hole.

Might even be a tighter hold vs trying to aim at the very center as you blow it out with multiple shots.

One would think so but for some unknown reason there seems to be s disconnect between my eye and my finger. Could it be I am trying too hard?

 

[Varminterror]

Mind your lighting conditions if you choose a non-center, edge-of-the-black hold (red in this case). Aiming black will visually grow and shrink in high or low light, and edges are easily distorted by mirage, so when your POI is disconnected from the center of your crosshair, and your crosshair is not centered on target, your POI will wander with changing light.

 

[kmw1954]

Mind your lighting conditions if you choose a non-center, edge-of-the-black hold (red in this case). Aiming black will visually grow and shrink in high or low light, and edges are easily distorted by mirage, so when your POI is disconnected from the center of your crosshair, and your crosshair is not centered on target, your POI will wander with changing light.

Thank you I did not know that.