Scopes on M4 carbines

[brooksk]

Hello folks, I new here though I've read many of the threads before with much interest. Thought I'd join in and make a few new friends and learn a thing or two.

Not sure where to post this and probably already been discussed at great length in the past but, I'd like to know what the thoughts are of those who have an M4, gov't profile, 16" bbl with glacier guard (clamshell) forend, with full size front sight post and have attempted to mount a scope onto the flat-top receiver. My concern is this: if I bought a scope / mount combo designed for the AR15/M4 5.56/.223 round, would the front sight post/base obstruct the view thru the scope? I was hoping to mount a 2-8x-32mm Nikon Nikoplex using their M223 mount while still preserving the front sight base/gas block configuration so I could still use iron sights. Is this possible? I have an RRA Entry Tactical which has the detachable (and elevated) rear sight handle. I'd like to make the front sight shine a little brighter and was thinking of getting a tritium/fiber optic insert for iron sight shooting and a scope for distance target/hunting. Does this sound feasible? In lieu of the tritium fiber optic front sight insert I was thinking of possibly a open red-dot sight which I could mount on the detachable carry handle. If I had to choose one or the other I'd lean toward the scope. Most of the YouTube's, etc., show scoped guns that have low profile gas blocks. Since my rifle is a carbine and has the military style front sight already there I'd like to retain it. (I can't afford another barrel/upper assembly.)
Any words of advice appreciated.
Kevin

 

[Creature]

You wont see the front sight post through a 2-8x32. GTG.

 

[TonyAngel]

Well, it's going to depend on the height of your mount setup too. On my last rig, I could see the front sight at up to 3X, but anything over that and the front sight couldn't be seen. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it. It isn't a big deal. I wouldn't go getting a super high mount or anything to "fix" it.

 

[matrem]

With the scope mounted where you're probably gonna want it; (same height as irons)You'll probably be able to "find" some "ghosting" of the front sight at 2X, but it won't interfere with your sight picture.
At 8X, doubt you'll even see it.

 

[G27RR]

As said, you should be fine with the possible exception of the 2x power. I don't see it at 3x with this setup....

 

[brooksk]

Thanks everyone!
Looks like my main concern has been answered quite well.

Hey G27RR, nice looking rig! Have you removed and replaced the scope / mount combo so as to be able to use the BUIS? I was wondering how much the bullets Point of Impact changed by the scope/mount removal and reattachment. Also, looks like the Nikon M223 mount uses hex head allen-type wrenches on the mount-to-receiver? Are they pretty secure in locking things down?

Am I reading "Come and Take it" on the inside dust cover?

Kevin

 

[offroader1006]

3rd. i cannot see the FSB on 3x-up with this setup

 

[DBR]

I general I can see a "ghost image" of the front sight tower up to about 5X. It is fairly noticeable at 3X but doesn't interfere with aiming. However, I tried both a XS Big Dot front sight and a fiber optic front sight without success. If the ambient light was coming from behind me lighting up the front sight it really flared the scope image.

 

[Effigy]

Good info, guys. I don't own an AR, but I've always wondered whether that A4 sight post would interfere with optics.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The M223's are on special, come with a free mount. I think MidwayUSA has the best pricing.

 

[G27RR]

Thanks everyone!
Looks like my main concern has been answered quite well.

Hey G27RR, nice looking rig! Have you removed and replaced the scope / mount combo so as to be able to use the BUIS? I was wondering how much the bullets Point of Impact changed by the scope/mount removal and reattachment. Also, looks like the Nikon M223 mount uses hex head allen-type wrenches on the mount-to-receiver? Are they pretty secure in locking things down?

Am I reading "Come and Take it" on the inside dust cover?

Kevin

If you are careful and attach the mount the same way each time, meaning in th same slots and always either pushed to the front or back of the slots each time, the change is negligable. It helps if you torque the screws the same amount each time.

They screws are very secure and are hex drive. They are good quality and don't seem prone to stripping out easily like some less expensive brands. They tighten up well and haven't come loose. You could always use some of the blue (lower strength) loctite, but I've never needed it. There isn't much recoil on a 5.56 for the mount to have to deal with.

The dust cover does say come and take it. I got a pair of M&P15s for my boys, and put those on each of them. It's from Texas' history, from the Battle of Gonzales, and being a Texan I like it. When the cover is closed it's plain on the outside.

The scope is the Leupold Mark AR 3-9x40 mildot. The Nikon M-223 scopes weren't out when I bought that one. It's a very good scope for the price, though.

Here's a close-up of the dust cover. I bought it from Harford Engraving.

 

[bman940]

Some great pics and advice. Agreed, at 2x, some ghosting may appear, anything higher with quality AR mounts, doubtful. The M-223 mount should give you enough elevation that you will be just fine with your standard front sight still in place. Most guys I know eventually swap it out realizing they are never going to use it again.
Correct on the Nikon M-223 Promotion. Great deal right now. Buy a scope from a PARTICIPATING dealer and he'll give you a free M-223 AR mount at the time of purchase. $99 retail value.
Also, for those of you who like the BDC reticle, don't forget to go to Nikonhunting.com, click on the Spot On logo, register (it's free) and you can check out all the ballistics for your loads and get the corresponding distances for each BDC circle depending on your ammo selection. Pretty cool.
Bart

 

[.338Sako]

saved

saved for later

 

[TIMC]

I don't see it on mine.



Really, Like the others have said, you won't see it in the scope.

 

[.338Sako]

Very nice set up...^^^

 

[MistWolf]

Lots of shooters claim you won't see the front sight in the scope, but you cannot cheat physics. You'll be able to see the target through the "shadow" of the FSB but, if the scope is mounted low enough that the center of the crosshair is not higher than the top of the FSB, you'll never be able to put the crosshair on target.

I don't know the actual physics that explain how the FSB is turned into a shadow so you can see "through" it but it's an illusion. Trying to place the crosshair on a small target to make a precise shot while it's blocked by the FSB will drive you crazy. The closest thing I can get to describing it is the crosshair "slides" off to one side of the target or the other. I don't bother trying to mix FSBs & scopes anymore. It's not worth the extra eyestrain