SD Shooting in Houston - 6/18/09

[doorman]

What about disparity of force. The kid was 17 the property owner was 69 and maybe frail. Could the property owner gone toe-to-toe with the bad guy if it came to that?

I would use anything available if I felt there was the threat of bodily harm.

Baseball Bat
Golf Club
Slingshot
and certainly a .22 cal anything if that was all I had.

I believe that this is not the first time that the kid was trespassing and/or burglerizing to support his habit.

RU

 

[Schofield3]

Once, just once, I would like to see the headline read something like

"Homeowner Successfully Defends Himself Against Trespassing Drug User"

+100

It's a shame this didn't end differently but again if you don't want to get shot you sure as hell don't approach someone pointing a rifle at you, telling you to leave....

 

[rino451]

bababoey32

9.42 makes 9.41 all the more powerful by allowing deadly force to be used.

I just reread and see that it happened in the morning. 9.42 is about the "imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime."

That's going to be hard to prove. I think we're talking about 9.41 and 9.31 in this case. It appears to me that it's going to be about the question of escalation - did things go from verbal to lethal or was some other use of force by either side employed. (That's my case for stuff like Fox, stun guns, tasers, etc. Too bad we can't have an ASP.) Also, was the kid depriving the homeowner from the use of his land/house (I'm assuming that the kid was trying to break in or steal anything from the yard or car) or was he trying to drag him off?

I dunno, this seems to me one of those cases where it'd be nice if there was something between Get the he!! off my land" and BOOM!

 

[bababooey32]

rino,

From your own post:

9.42 is about the "imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime."

If the homeowner was being burgaled, he has the right to use deadly force. Compunded with the BG approaching the homeowner, disparity of force and TX Castle Doctrine, I think it will be tough to get a "bad shoot" rulilng here.

Your last point is most valid; there should be "something between Get the he!! off my land" and BOOM!" from a tactical perspective.

 

[bigione]

Seems like a fair deal, considering age. I've had to chase people off my property during hunting season. I go armed, try not to be beligerent, have backup,etc. However, calling the LEOS isn't a quick answer. It can take hours. Guess it depends on situation. I will demand that trespassers respect my property rights. If they seem to be agressive, I'm 70+ and wont fistfight them.

 

[RP88]

first, we have a story of a man defending himself against an assailant armed with a .45acp handgun, who shoots the guy twice in the back. The guy not only lives, but fights and subdues the shooter.

Then a crackhead gets dropped in one stomach shot by a ".22 rifle" that I would assume is probably a .22lr

there's your caliber war for you.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

it seems to me that everyone thinks the rifle was 22lr. the article just says .22-caliber rifle. this could mean 223 remington or other 22 cal cartridge.... maybe i'm wrong though.

Yes but given the article it was probably a single shot .22lr. Had he used a .223 or any semi-auto most reporters would salivate at the mouth at the chance to use the "powerful automatic assault rifle!" phrase.

Maybe the title of the article could have been "Elderly homeowner successfully defends self against crackhead" instead of man fatally shoots teen

 

[Dr. Fresh]

My EMT friend has told me the thing about .22 that makes it dangerous is that the entry wound is so small it becomes very difficult to find, especially if the skin folds back over it or there's no exit wound.

 

[doorman]

Now that I think about it. The report on the 6 pm news showed sheriff deputies holding a bolt action rifle witha stainless steel barrel/action. So it could have very well beena .223.

http://www.khou.com/video/?z=y&nvid=372443&shu=1

The above link is from khou in Houston. Notice the rifle that the deputies are looking at.

RU

 

[dom1104]

Working in the forensics 22 cal is one of the most dangerous calibers to get shot with. Not only does it enter the body at a high velocity it splits into hundreds pieces causing immediate blood infection. Other calibers when do split they go into 5, 6 fragments and stay in tact for the most part. If they hit organ tissue they do not split and just cause a wound not infecting the blood which is the fastest way to cause a fatalities.

"Working in the forensics" lol.

this gave me my first laugh of the day.

blood infection heh. I think the gun world needs to get out and hunt a little bit more.

 

[dom1104]

the rifle in that video is a 22lr

The short bolt throw is indicative.

 

[sixshooterfan]

Thieving crackhead and a 69 year old cancer patient?

So long as the bullet hole wasn't in the back, the guy is going to get no-billed by the grand jury.

Other comments: Yea, definitely looks like a .22LR from the bolt throw.

 

[rino451]

bababooey

I agree, but from everything I've seen, they're going to have to determine that burglary was imminent.

So far the facts as I see it are:
1. Refusal to leave (trespass).
2. Past burglary (of that I'm not certain).
3. Age disparity.

None of those even taken together allow for the use of deadly force. Force, yes, but not deadly force. He's going to have to prove that either murder or burglary were imminent, and depending on the range of the shot, that might be difficult. Not to mention that having not called the PD after the first altercation, one might come to the conclusion that at least at that time, he was not in fear for his life or stuff from this kid.

Again, I do not see it as cut and dry, but it will be interesting. Of course, having a dead possible perp eliminates one source on contradicting info. Now he's just got to pay it smart and tell the right story.

 

[renegade1alpha]

Personally he should have closed the door to his home (with gun in hand) and called the police. If the teen then broke into his home, especially knowing the man was armed, then by all means use deadly force. The old guy may be the nicest guy in the world and feels bad about what he did, but it could have been avoided.