I think it has to do with liability issues AND the captains choice if he wants to arm people. I rode/protected ships (MSC and USNS) while I was in the USN. The crew had small arms i.e. 12gauge and 9mm. We brought along the bigger guns and mounted them fwd, aft, two Stbd and two port. .50 cals, m16s'(m4 and a2) 40mm grenade launchers and m240s'. The horn of Africa was interesting as was the straits of hormuz. Never a dull moment. Glad we got the bad guys this time. Way to go U.S.N!
SEALs & the Maersk Alabama: AR15, M-14, or bolt action .308?
- Thread starter Dr_2_B
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I would like to know what kind of weapons were used. I, too, heard gyro stabilized and I said I never heard of such a thing. Maybe jest good ole marksmanship with a touch of Kaintuck windage and a lotta luck (in the sense that luck generally goes to the prepared.)
Concerning armed vessels or armed crew on vessels. It is allowed but involves a lot of bureaucracy at each port of call, read 'delays.' The shippers are in the business to make money and delays hamper that, so, we go unarmed so we can more easily and quickly enter and leave foreign ports.
Concerning armed vessels or armed crew on vessels. It is allowed but involves a lot of bureaucracy at each port of call, read 'delays.' The shippers are in the business to make money and delays hamper that, so, we go unarmed so we can more easily and quickly enter and leave foreign ports.
axeman_g
Member
In reading Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell, he mentions that Seal snipers, as he was, were utilizing the MK12 rifle system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle
It would surpise me if there was at least one of the SEALS, if not all three, were not armed with a MK12.... possibly might have the next version the SEAL Recon Rifle, a more SEAL specified MK12.
But, then again, all three could have been carrying M4s and that would not have been a hard shot, 90-100 ft away, calm waters, lit up interior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle
It would surpise me if there was at least one of the SEALS, if not all three, were not armed with a MK12.... possibly might have the next version the SEAL Recon Rifle, a more SEAL specified MK12.
But, then again, all three could have been carrying M4s and that would not have been a hard shot, 90-100 ft away, calm waters, lit up interior.
ShakyJake
Member
Speculation
Hi All
Ain't it fun to speculate!!!
Imagine how boring this thread would be if the facts would have come out early. 
TaKe CaRe
Ted
Hi All
Ain't it fun to speculate!!!
Imagine how boring this thread would be if the facts would have come out early. TaKe CaRe
Ted
Onmilothesameone
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I have to question the validity of these news reports on what really happened out there.
First reports said the good Captain jumped into the ocean a second time and a brief firefight ensued resulting in the death of three of the pirates and the capture of the fourth bad guy.
Following reports began to add the sniper aspect to the drama which then transformed itself into Navy SEAL Snipers doing the shooting which further grew into the fantastical three shots, three kills, through a view portal of a bobbing unpowered lifeboat, those three shots being fired from the fantail of a bobbing Navy warcraft by SEALs, who had parachuted into the ocean and were picked up by the ship while the lifeboat bobbed around three hundred meters away, and all this drama took place at night.
It was added that the fourth bad guy had given himself up to seek medical attention for his hand which was punctured by an ice pick by one of the crew of the hijacked ship.
Given the information provided, here is my take on what really happened.
Navy Divers attached the towrope to the lifeboat effectively capturing the watercraft.
After several days in the boat without medical attention, the wounded bad guy, mad with pain and probable infection was allowed by his compatriots to surrender.
Navy interrogators convinced the captured bad guy to get his bad guy buddies to exit the lifeboat with the good captain and sit on top of it.
When this occurred, somebody on the Navy ship gave a signal to the good captain to exit stage left the lifeboat which he did, by jumping overboard yet again.
When the bad guys pointed their weapons at the good captain, now bobbing like a cork in a bathtub, crewmen on the ship opened up with everything they had.
The bad guys, in all likelyhood, did fire at both the good captain and the ship when they suddenly realized the game was over.
Three shots, three kills, through the hardened glass viewport of a lifeboat, from and at bobbing watercraft, in the dead of night, is simply beyond the possibility of reality, SEAL Snipers or not.
Mind you, it isn't my plan to discredit the SEALs, my intention is to give credit where credit is due.
There is a whole herd of professionals in the Navy who aren't the mighty SEALs and who quietly go about their jobs in a capable manner.
These folks deserve credit too.
First reports said the good Captain jumped into the ocean a second time and a brief firefight ensued resulting in the death of three of the pirates and the capture of the fourth bad guy.
Following reports began to add the sniper aspect to the drama which then transformed itself into Navy SEAL Snipers doing the shooting which further grew into the fantastical three shots, three kills, through a view portal of a bobbing unpowered lifeboat, those three shots being fired from the fantail of a bobbing Navy warcraft by SEALs, who had parachuted into the ocean and were picked up by the ship while the lifeboat bobbed around three hundred meters away, and all this drama took place at night.
It was added that the fourth bad guy had given himself up to seek medical attention for his hand which was punctured by an ice pick by one of the crew of the hijacked ship.
Given the information provided, here is my take on what really happened.
Navy Divers attached the towrope to the lifeboat effectively capturing the watercraft.
After several days in the boat without medical attention, the wounded bad guy, mad with pain and probable infection was allowed by his compatriots to surrender.
Navy interrogators convinced the captured bad guy to get his bad guy buddies to exit the lifeboat with the good captain and sit on top of it.
When this occurred, somebody on the Navy ship gave a signal to the good captain to exit stage left the lifeboat which he did, by jumping overboard yet again.
When the bad guys pointed their weapons at the good captain, now bobbing like a cork in a bathtub, crewmen on the ship opened up with everything they had.
The bad guys, in all likelyhood, did fire at both the good captain and the ship when they suddenly realized the game was over.
Three shots, three kills, through the hardened glass viewport of a lifeboat, from and at bobbing watercraft, in the dead of night, is simply beyond the possibility of reality, SEAL Snipers or not.
Mind you, it isn't my plan to discredit the SEALs, my intention is to give credit where credit is due.
There is a whole herd of professionals in the Navy who aren't the mighty SEALs and who quietly go about their jobs in a capable manner.
These folks deserve credit too.
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Jeremy2171
Member
More than likely just plain vanilla M4's with PVS-17 night vision on them...not much need for anything else them being that close and all...
highorder
Member
Thanks for clearing that up. Its nice to get the truth from someone that was actually there...
Onmilothesameone
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I have seen news reports placing the lifeboat anywhere from 500 meters to 100 feet of the warship.
No competent Captain would place a lifeboat within 100 feet of the propellers of the ship while attached to a towrope.
My bet is that lifeboat was at least three hundred meters from the warship.
And if you believe in magic space dust, go ahead and get the material and duplicate the fabled feat.
No competent Captain would place a lifeboat within 100 feet of the propellers of the ship while attached to a towrope.
My bet is that lifeboat was at least three hundred meters from the warship.
And if you believe in magic space dust, go ahead and get the material and duplicate the fabled feat.
JR47
Member
Then again, you weren't there, nor was your crystal ball. If I were you, I'd just wait until the actual facts are released, then make assertions. There will be an official after-action report made, and it will be public to the media, if only under FIA.
As for the distances involved, both vessels were sea-keeping in mild seas, so the props weren't in very much danger at all. I would also imagine, given the latitude, that the heat of day had warmed the small vessel to the point that the pirates were quite willing to expose themselves, after dark, to the cooler air.
The "maddened with pain" pirate had a stab wound in his hand, from the original assault. Even infected, that was hardly worthy of that description. These weren't disciplined military veterans, they were pirates, and amateurs. It's entirely possible to find Americans who believe that they are safe exposing themselves at night, and are unaware of the modern NVDs available. Much less Somalis.
The shots were difficult, but hardly impossible from the accepted 25-30 meters given. Yes, there was motion on both vessels, but not like in high seas. The velocity of the rounds would have prevented any gross motion on the part of the vessels, at such close ranges.
It requires a less convoluted effort to believe that the shots, while not like target practice, were well within the ability of a competent marksman. Why it is necessary to create an entire scenario, not in evidence, and use that to justify a personal opinion, is curious.
As for the distances involved, both vessels were sea-keeping in mild seas, so the props weren't in very much danger at all. I would also imagine, given the latitude, that the heat of day had warmed the small vessel to the point that the pirates were quite willing to expose themselves, after dark, to the cooler air.
The "maddened with pain" pirate had a stab wound in his hand, from the original assault. Even infected, that was hardly worthy of that description. These weren't disciplined military veterans, they were pirates, and amateurs. It's entirely possible to find Americans who believe that they are safe exposing themselves at night, and are unaware of the modern NVDs available. Much less Somalis.
The shots were difficult, but hardly impossible from the accepted 25-30 meters given. Yes, there was motion on both vessels, but not like in high seas. The velocity of the rounds would have prevented any gross motion on the part of the vessels, at such close ranges.
It requires a less convoluted effort to believe that the shots, while not like target practice, were well within the ability of a competent marksman. Why it is necessary to create an entire scenario, not in evidence, and use that to justify a personal opinion, is curious.
Well folks back to the op question of what did they use?
I have worked in on and around a navy seal base as a firefighter. Up to 2 years ago when I took a transfer I saw many many calibers and guns for sniping. From 223/5.56 on up to 50 bmg. And in stuff you wouldnt think of like 7.62x54 7mm mag 300 mag 338 mag this one guy even has a supressed 22 mag, I think that was a for fun gun though. In all sorts of auto loaders and bolt guns. Truth is we may never know but at that range I will put my money on some sort od ar type.
I have worked in on and around a navy seal base as a firefighter. Up to 2 years ago when I took a transfer I saw many many calibers and guns for sniping. From 223/5.56 on up to 50 bmg. And in stuff you wouldnt think of like 7.62x54 7mm mag 300 mag 338 mag this one guy even has a supressed 22 mag, I think that was a for fun gun though. In all sorts of auto loaders and bolt guns. Truth is we may never know but at that range I will put my money on some sort od ar type.
45B@cav
Member
I have a cousin who is retired Naval Intel, and according to him the SEALs pretty much pick what they want mission specific. So there is no telling what the weapon was
Jeremy2171
Member
Course now that I had a cup of coffee and thought about it... all they needed was the M4, PEQ-15 (or 16) IR Illuminator and NVG's. That is pretty much your standard setup for your M4 and no need for anything else (Mk11/18, M14 etc.) at 30yds or less when they took the shots.
Lots of news reports...?...A formal seal on a show I watched said the 3 that were shot, had stuck their heads outside the lifeboat to get some fresh air...that was a great idea, glad they did that. I would say the Seals always have their choice of weapons, always. They could of used a 5.56 version, or at that close range a 10/22 LR would of done the head job...but doubt they used the .22....
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have read several reliable sources who say the major maritime shipping insurers, Lloyd's of London, etc. will not cover arming the crew.
http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2009/04/insuring-armed-security-more-e/
They feel it is better to lay down and give up then risk shooting someone defending the ship.
There is also the issue of territorial waters in many countries where arms of any kind are prohibited.
Still, it seems it would be pretty hard to scale a 50' - 75' high, slick steel hull.
You could dump a pot of boiling ham & beens on them and repel borders it seems.
Or hang a few live steam hoses over the sides.
rc
skinewmexico
Member
He would if he was trying to help shoot the occupants.
Folks it boils down to this, Seals do what they do for the average joe. It is at this time I would like to thank the ones that have done their job for the country and its citizens. Good guys like my Uncle Hughey, Timmy, Steve, Mike, Rudy, and this really nice old guy every one called spike horn. I with hold their last names because some of them just recently got out through retirement or injury, others are long gone and burried. Its not the easiest life style in the world. And thats exactly what it is a life style, if it were a job they wouldnt be doing it.
So Thanks guys.
So Thanks guys.
Anyway you slice it, this was a fine piece of marksmanship and coordination between true professionals. Wow. The level of expertise is amazing and I think sends a good message to these pirates.
Assuming the President is really the one who gave the OK to engage if the ship's captain was in danger... I say bravo to him getting out of the way and letting these fine professionals do their job.
Semper Fi to my seaborne brothers in arms.
John
Assuming the President is really the one who gave the OK to engage if the ship's captain was in danger... I say bravo to him getting out of the way and letting these fine professionals do their job.
Semper Fi to my seaborne brothers in arms.
John
TheVirginian
Member
Yep, That's a soldier's fairytale ending. Just the way that pirates should be handled - never paid and always killed. If paid, the money would likely go to Al Quaida or some other scumbag outfit in Somalia. If not killed, some more of those ragged lot would have taken to the idea. Now they have reason to stay home and act civilized.
-Bill
-Bill
I say congratulations to whomever shot those 3 BGs, whether they were seals (which is what I would prefer to think), cooks with some good aim, or the captain -- way to go. IMHO, I think that pulling the boat in close to the ship was a damn smart idea. Anybody who has ever been on a boat and looked out the back, has seen that the boat smooths out the random waves after it has ridden over it, and even though the water may not be smooth, it is predictable, and essentially pulling the BGs boat in close to that big ship would put them essentially on the same plane, so to speak. It should make taking that shot a lot easier I would think.
loosehorse
Member
I too was dying for more info...check out this site
<http://www.defensetech.org/>
they have more info than I had heard up to now...and a couple of links
for even more.
Anyway a great job and its about time.
Loosehorse
<http://www.defensetech.org/>
they have more info than I had heard up to now...and a couple of links
for even more.
Anyway a great job and its about time.
Loosehorse
Hammerhead6814
Member
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At 25 yards there is little they couldn't use. But my guess would be something in .308 or better. On a rolling ocean, a headshot seems out of the question (Even though it was 25 yards!).
In all likelihood, the SEALS probably have their own custom gear for this kind of thing. Doubtful they used something we have the complete specs on.
In all likelihood, the SEALS probably have their own custom gear for this kind of thing. Doubtful they used something we have the complete specs on.
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