Seating depth with cannelure

[Parks2055]

Hello all,
I have been loading some 357 with 158gr plated bullets and now picked up some jacketed to try with the cannelure with a roll crimp.
The data suggests 1.590, but even seating to 1.585 still looks to high.
Will attach a picture - is this normal?
All the factory loads I have look more centered in the cannelure.
Walkalong - if you read this - how does the crimp look?
Thanks for any feed back.

 

[rcmodel]

Certainly not seated deep enough.

Is the data you have for the exact same brand & type of bullets you are using??

If not, the published OAL is meaningless.

Seat at least midway on the cannulure to leave room for the crimp to roll into it.
I usually seat almost to the front edge of the cannulure, and crimp to the middle of it.

I can't remember the last time I measured OAL on a revolver round.
Seated the way I described is the correct OAL, whatever that is.

rc

 

[mdi]

When using bullets with a crimp groove or cannalure, I disregard OAL data. Began reloading in '69 and rarely do I find the crimp groove/cannalure OAL to match the manual's suggestion. I believe the bullet designers determined the location of the crimp groove/cannalure with consideration of the amount of bullet seated in the case and powder volume/pressures with given loads. When I seat bullets to be crimped, I seat so that the mouth of the case is even with the top of the groove/cannalure. Normally I'll apply more crimp than you have on your reloads pictured. I have loaded a whole bunch of handgun ammo (I have 5 .44 Magnums, 2 357, and 2 .38 Specials to load for) and never had any problems due to crimping. Check a factory crimp (defineately NOT a Lee Factory Crimp Die) to compare your crimp to.

So, seat a bit deeper and crimp a little more...

 

[powell&hyde]

Certainly not seated deep enough.

Is the data you have for the exact same brand & type of bullets you are using??

If not, the published OAL is meaningless.

Seat at least midway on the cannulure to leave room for the crimp to roll into it.
I usually seat almost to the front edge of the cannulure, and crimp to the middle of it.

I can't remember the last time I measured OAL on a revolver round.
Seated the way I described is the correct OAL, whatever that is.

rc

I agree RC, to many reloaders get into trouble with different bullet manufactures and by thinking it's the same weight so it must be OK to seat at oal.

 

[Parks2055]

Got it.
The data was for Hornady XTP and what I have is Winchester JHP.
so, I will seat deeper to half or more of the cannelure and a little more crimp as well.
Makes sense as revelver rounds are not as sensitive to col as pistol rounds.
Learning as I go. Thanks for the info.

 

[Walkalong]

As rcmodel posted, seat to the middle of the cannelure, and roll crimp. Whatever OAL that is, is the right OAL for that bullet and your brass. You want to roll the case mouth into the deepest part of the cannelure.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6351763&postcount=71

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As said above, use the supplied crimp groove provided by the bullet manufacturer. It will provide the correct seating depth for that bullet. The pictures supplied by Walkalong tell the whole story...

 

[cfullgraf]

Like others have said, I seat to the cannelure and the OAl is what it is. i do measure and record the OAL for grins and giggles though.

 

[Walkalong]

I do as well, because I have a spot for it on my load sheet I made.

 

[1911Tuner]

Seat and crimp to the middle. Often, a bullet with lead exposed will be deformed by the seater plug, and the cartridge OAL will be all over the map anyway. The amount of the bullet inside the case, and the volume in the case that it displaces is what counts. The location of the cannelure determines that.

 

[cemjr]

? Can a traper crimp be used in place of the roll crimp.

 

[Rodentman]

I would not taper crimp using a bullet with a cannelure. Roll crimp is called for.

 

[918v]

? Can a traper crimp be used in place of the roll crimp.

Yes. Just make sure it is heavy and you get enough case mouth into the cannelure.

 

[beatledog7]

Like others, I seat to the top 1/3 of the cannelure then roll crimp into it; usually for my loads a moderate roll is enough. And then I measure them, as someone said, because my log has a column for OAL.

 

[FROGO207]

A couple of times that I tried to cheap out and use the incorrect bullet for the round the actual OAL was too long to fit the revolver and the cylinder would not turn. When first trying a new bullet shape/weight it is good form to see if it will even fit/function in the action before making a butt load of them. Guess how I know that.

 

[moxie]

918v,

Yes, you can use a taper crimp instead of a roll crimp. You do not even have to use a crimp at all, as long as you have enough neck tension. Just seat the bullet so the case mouth edge is centered on the cannelure. I use this on lighter .357 and .44 Mag loads and it's fairly typical on .223 loads with cannelured bullets.

 

[rcmodel]

Most folks load expensive JHP bullets in .357 Mag for full JHP performance.
So you will need a firm roll crimp to keep the recoil from pulling bullets, and to promote a clean magnum powder burn.

Taper crimp or no crimp might be fine for target wad-cutter loads.

But you might find a firm roll-crimp is best for full power magnum loads for the reasons mentioned.

Rifles don't need crimp because thay don't have a case rim yanked out from under the bullets by recoil like a revolver does.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

If it's for a revolver cartridge and a jacketed bullet, I don't even look at the published OAL. Just crimp in the mid section of the canelure, and you'll be good to go.

You mentioned 158 gr. plated bullets that didn't have a canelure. Personally, I've never run into a revolver bullet that didn't have a canelure? I always thought that canelures were the standard with bullets for .357 mag., 38 spcl, 44 spcl. and so on? But I also don't use plated bullets either, if that makes any difference. If I'm wrong guys, make sure to correct me so the OP doesn't get the wrong advice form me.


GS

 

[918v]

Taper crimp or no crimp might be fine for target wad-cutter loads.

There will be no difference between a heavy taper crimp and a roll crimp with the bullets the OP is using.