xfyrfiter
Member
If at any time in our history the second amendment is more relevant today than ever before. My limited knowledge of history can't ever think of a time when our rights were under a heavier attack.
second ammendment being " out dated "
- Thread starter jerinco
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I had this same debate with a co-worker today, he says that the founding fathers could have never fathomed the technology of todays firearms and it was not intended for the people to have "automatic" wepaons. To put his point into perspective I reversed the roles and asked him how many times has he used his cellphone, ipad, facebook, email, twitter etc. to express his viewpoint on this subject. He said that he has voiced his opinion on all of these "devices". I pointed out to him that our founding fathers could have never fathomed the technology of todays communication and it was not intended for people to use them to excercise their 1st ammendment right of freedom of speech. So if I was to turn in to my AR then he would need to use a pen and quill from here on out and not the internet, phone service or any digital item, only a pen and paper, Oh and not a fancy ball point pen either.
He looked at me like I had lost my mind.
He looked at me like I had lost my mind.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
It might also be interesting to see the look on his face when you explain to him that those same arms that the Founding Fathers talked about were (insert drum roll here) the same types of guns the military forces used (insert rim shot here).
So, using that same argument, it could equally be said that the Founding Fathers fully intended that the civilians would have the SAME personal weapons that the military forces would have.
But I like your analogy with respect to the First Amendment.
I've had similar discussions with other people about these things as well. In addition to the First Amendment, don't forget how out of date the others are, as well.
Get rid of the 3rd Amendment. Surely, with the way the military is set up today there is no need to have it in writing that the government cannot quarter the military on your property and in your house, right? Especially with budget concerns the way they are now. Can't see the military saying "Hey! We can save a lot of money if we don't have to house and feed the troops out of our own pocket anymore!"
Get rid of the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments. They don't do anything except hamper the law enforcement agencies in prosecuting criminals, right? Law enforcement would never conduct warrantless searches on people who are NOT criminals, right? Never force a confession from a suspect, right? Never imprison someone endlessly until they finally feel like getting around to actual prosecution, right?
The Constitution starts off with "We the people...", so why do we need the 13th Amendment? We'd NEVER mistreat anybody on the basis of race today, right?
And let's repeal the 19th Amendment right now! With the limited perspective of women due to their rightful role as barefoot, pregnant, sammich makers, why do they need to vote? None of those activities have anything at all to do with important things, like running the country or anything. Well, except maybe the sammich making thing so those who do run the country can eat.
The point of ANY of these arguments is to show that those Amendments are there for very important reasons. And the fact that people today HAVE those rights is because those who came before us suffered and fought tooth and nail for them. Take them away now, just because someone says "oh, that could NEVER happen now" or "they're out dated" means that we're re-establishing the legal conditions for all those problems which were addressed by them in the first place.
I don't know about you, but I have enough in life to worry about without having to deal with these things all over again like our forebears.
So, using that same argument, it could equally be said that the Founding Fathers fully intended that the civilians would have the SAME personal weapons that the military forces would have.
But I like your analogy with respect to the First Amendment.
I've had similar discussions with other people about these things as well. In addition to the First Amendment, don't forget how out of date the others are, as well.
Get rid of the 3rd Amendment. Surely, with the way the military is set up today there is no need to have it in writing that the government cannot quarter the military on your property and in your house, right? Especially with budget concerns the way they are now. Can't see the military saying "Hey! We can save a lot of money if we don't have to house and feed the troops out of our own pocket anymore!"
Get rid of the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments. They don't do anything except hamper the law enforcement agencies in prosecuting criminals, right? Law enforcement would never conduct warrantless searches on people who are NOT criminals, right? Never force a confession from a suspect, right? Never imprison someone endlessly until they finally feel like getting around to actual prosecution, right?
The Constitution starts off with "We the people...", so why do we need the 13th Amendment? We'd NEVER mistreat anybody on the basis of race today, right?
And let's repeal the 19th Amendment right now! With the limited perspective of women due to their rightful role as barefoot, pregnant, sammich makers, why do they need to vote? None of those activities have anything at all to do with important things, like running the country or anything. Well, except maybe the sammich making thing so those who do run the country can eat.
The point of ANY of these arguments is to show that those Amendments are there for very important reasons. And the fact that people today HAVE those rights is because those who came before us suffered and fought tooth and nail for them. Take them away now, just because someone says "oh, that could NEVER happen now" or "they're out dated" means that we're re-establishing the legal conditions for all those problems which were addressed by them in the first place.
I don't know about you, but I have enough in life to worry about without having to deal with these things all over again like our forebears.
Solo - do business in China regularly and can assure you the economic growth has very little to do with limiting free speech. Manipulation of currency and cheap labor are the two most significant factors. Perhaps limiting free speech in the context of covering slave labor is where your'e going with that comment?
Roger all of that Chief - the BOR does not carry a multiple choice optionIt might also be interesting to see the look on his face when you explain to him that those same arms that the Founding Fathers talked about were (insert drum roll here) the same types of guns the military forces used (insert rim shot here).
So, using that same argument, it could equally be said that the Founding Fathers fully intended that the civilians would have the SAME personal weapons that the military forces would have.
But I like your analogy with respect to the First Amendment.
I've had similar discussions with other people about these things as well. In addition to the First Amendment, don't forget how out of date the others are, as well.
Get rid of the 3rd Amendment. Surely, with the way the military is set up today there is no need to have it in writing that the government cannot quarter the military on your property and in your house, right? Especially with budget concerns the way they are now. Can't see the military saying "Hey! We can save a lot of money if we don't have to house and feed the troops out of our own pocket anymore!"
Get rid of the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments. They don't do anything except hamper the law enforcement agencies in prosecuting criminals, right? Law enforcement would never conduct warrantless searches on people who are NOT criminals, right? Never force a confession from a suspect, right? Never imprison someone endlessly until they finally feel like getting around to actual prosecution, right?
The Constitution starts off with "We the people...", so why do we need the 13th Amendment? We'd NEVER mistreat anybody on the basis of race today, right?
And let's repeal the 19th Amendment right now! With the limited perspective of women due to their rightful role as barefoot, pregnant, sammich makers, why do they need to vote? None of those activities have anything at all to do with important things, like running the country or anything. Well, except maybe the sammich making thing so those who do run the country can eat.
The point of ANY of these arguments is to show that those Amendments are there for very important reasons. And the fact that people today HAVE those rights is because those who came before us suffered and fought tooth and nail for them. Take them away now, just because someone says "oh, that could NEVER happen now" or "they're out dated" means that we're re-establishing the legal conditions for all those problems which were addressed by them in the first place.
I don't know about you, but I have enough in life to worry about without having to deal with these things all over again like our forebears.
The cannons and grenades of that time period were privately owned. Don't try and tell me that the founding fathers wouldn't have wanted us to have dangerous weapons.
They were completely comfortable with the neighbor having a cannon parked outside his house but our modern day citizens can't cope with us having rifles in our own homes.
Open carry was the common method for carry of firearms and didn't make people panic. In those times a rifle or pistol was a common part of the wardrobe and wasn't a taboo item.
In fact citizens of the time period assumed that you were a dishonorable individual if you CONCEALED your firearm.
They were completely comfortable with the neighbor having a cannon parked outside his house but our modern day citizens can't cope with us having rifles in our own homes.
Open carry was the common method for carry of firearms and didn't make people panic. In those times a rifle or pistol was a common part of the wardrobe and wasn't a taboo item.
In fact citizens of the time period assumed that you were a dishonorable individual if you CONCEALED your firearm.
IndispensableDestiny
Member
The first amendment is outdated. At the time it was written, the free press used machines quite unchanged from Gutenberg's. Free speech was what you did from a soap box or in a tavern.
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