Security-Six; equal to a K or L Frame?

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Back in the days when cops carried revolvers (and some still do), the Colorado Dept. of Public Safety tried Colts, S&W and Ruger revolvers. They tied them behind a pickup truck and dragged them across the desert. The only revolver to function after that torture test is Ruger.

As for the original question, I would consider the Ruger Security Six to be equal (market wise) to the S&W K frame. The L frame with its seven shot feature has an edge with its extra shot.
 
I'm so tired of hearing "Rugers are built like tanks" because they are not. They are extremely strong revolvers but not because of their size which is due to the way they are manufactured.

I'm also sick of hearing K frames are weak revolvers and can not be shot a lot with full magnum loads. That is also untrue. The K frame is not weak but it was prone to forcing cone damage caused by the screaming velocities of 125gr bullets in the .357 Magnum loads. That ammo was not available when the K frame magnum was developed. Somehow a weak forcing cone that can be damaged by 125gr ammo translated into the K frame being a weak revolver while it is not.

Disclaimer: I own and shoot both Ruger and S&W revolvers and like both.
 
They redesigned it for ease of manufacture. Had nothing to do with the grip frame

Security and Service Sixes originally had a grip that resembled that of a single action action. I know, I used to own one. If there was another redesign for manufacturing ease I am not aware of it.

Not quite the casting process requires it to be a little thicker to have equal strength metallurgically speaking, Rugers gains strength from not having a side plate.


Conventional casting would require thicker metal. Nodular cast steel is as strong of even stronger than forging as the stress lines within the metal are more dispersed. Google nodular cast steel and read up on it. Ferrari uses nodular cast steel components in their engines. If there were something better I'm sure they'd use it.

Rugers gain additional strength from no sideplate so we agree on that.

Griz22, K frame/SP tie, SP as in Speed-Six ???

SP as in SP101. I think the SP is stronger than a K frame but that's only an opinion as I have nothing to back the statement up.

The Security Six, Speed Six and Service Six are all built on the same frame and thus, equal in strength and durability.

Actually the Security Six may be stronger as the top strap is thicker at the rear to accomodate the adjustable sights.

Is it today's technology in processing metals/steel that
Handguns of years back didn't have?? Like Bill Ruger
Back in the day was doing?

Metallurgy has improved a lot in the past 40 years since the Ruger Sixes were introduced. I've seen older J frames from the 70s and 80s blow out cylinders and top straps from using several hundred rounds of +P+ treasury loads which ran about 25,000 psi. That about 10,000 psi less than SAAMI spec for 357. You can get a J frame that will easily digest 357s today.
 
Security and Service Sixes originally had a grip that resembled that of a single action action. I know, I used to own one. If there was another redesign for manufacturing ease I am not aware of it.
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It resembled every other DA on the market. I don't know why you would think it was like a single action or why that would be the reason for the redesign. As far as ease of manufacturing, that is what Bill Ruger told R.L. Wilson for the book "Bill Ruger and His Guns".

What about this is different from any S&W DA?
Security_Six.jpg


Actually the Security Six may be stronger as the top strap is thicker at the rear to accomodate the adjustable sights.
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That's arguable. No such distinction is made between Blackhawks and Vaqueros, even when converted to five-shot .45Colt, .475 and .500 Linebaugh.
 
Conventional casting would require thicker metal. Nodular cast steel is as strong of even stronger than forging as the stress lines within the metal are more dispersed. Google nodular cast steel and read up on it. Ferrari uses nodular cast steel components in their engines. If there were something better I'm sure they'd use it.
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A Ruger isn't nodular cast "iron" and there's really no such thing as nodular cast steel.
Many stock production cars use cast cranks but most race cars use forged steel or billet.

If Ruger's investment cast steel is as strong as forged why would Ruger use forged steel for the barrels and cylinders?
 
For one thing, those parts are easier to cut from round barstock than they are to cast. A revolver frame is a bit different.
 
So, regarding my post #24, is it that today's metals
Are way different, that reduces the weight on my
S&W 686+ 3-5-7 Magnum, Talo (5" barrel) ??
 
That weight may be a little optimistic. My 6" K-38 with its light tapered barrel is 37oz. A full lug five inch L-frame should be a couple ounces heavier than that.
 
That's what I'm saying, S&W lists it at 37.4 oz, now I
Haven't weighed it myself. Thanks for all the input!
 
I say this as a Smith and Wesson fan who owns only Smith revolvers: the K-Frame is more likely to have a better trigger when you get it, but the Security Six is better in every other way. The Ruger is just a more modern, more efficient design that's easier to maintain and won't break down nearly as soon.

I love K-frames because I started out on one and learned how to shoot with one, but they have given me problems over the years. If I could start over with any medium frame revolver I'd go with the Ruger.
 
I was trying to find the correct nomenclature so I’ll describe this as best that I can. On early Security Six revolvers the back strap (?)shoulder(?) that would contact the web of the shooters hand between the thumb and index fingers was contoured differently than later production. Early production examples the back strap shoulder would slip under the web of the hand during recoil. Later production units the back strap shoulder was modified/revised to help preclude this problem.

As for Investment Casting process Remington made certain small parts with this process before Ruger utilized the process. Ruger went with the process out of necessity lack of capital and manufacturing capability. Ruger thru experience gained institutional knowledge with the process forming the subsidiary of Pine Tree Castings.

As for the merits of different processes it’s all economics/efficiency/functionality that decides the process to be employed to produce the end product.
 
That's what I'm saying, S&W lists it at 37.4 oz, now I
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I find that weight suspect since that's somehow 2 oz lighter than a standard 4" with a fluted cylinder.
For one thing, those parts are easier to cut from round barstock than they are to cast.
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Not so sure about that. The great part about the investment casting is limiting machining. If they cast the cylinder all they'd have to do is cut the chambers.
 
I would rather feed a Six a steady diet of magnum ammo, but if I were carrying one for serious social purposes I would prefer the K strictly because of ergonomics and the quality of the DA trigger. My Security Six feels like a brick in my hand compared to my Model 19.
 
Not so sure about that. The great part about the investment casting is limiting machining. If they cast the cylinder all they'd have to do is cut the chambers.
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Yes but they have to cast the part, rather than just buying barstock. Ruger has always been a genius of a businessman first. I'm sure that if it were cheaper and easier, they would be doing it. There is actually MORE machine work that would be necessary for a cast cylinder. Cut the chambers, cut the ratchet, machine every surface, cut the flutes, radius the edges, etc., etc.. No way could a cast cylinder be used with 'just' cutting the chambers.
 
mavracer, that's what I'm saying, but when I first fired
It, (full magnum) it seemed to have a bit more recoil
Than what I was expecting. Any Smith experts out there,
Might have an explanation. Did S&W shave weight in the
Frame or grip somehow. I assumed it would be a standard
686+ with a non-fluted cylinder and wood grips ?
 
I know we have drifted a bit here, but I think some good
Talk regarding metallurgy processes have been presented
Here, Thank you !
 
The Ruger's will equal the S&W revolvers in strength and accuracy. They won't equal the S&W in the feel, or the action, or the trigger pull. You can make them shoot great and even tune the actions but they still wont handle like a S&W.
 
wkuban, I agree, I have heard that a trigger job on a Smith
Is way easier than on a Ruger, not that a Smith would
Need one. They (Smith's) are much smoother out of the
Box, I agree. Just wondering how the weight of my latest
Smith seems low for what you would think in a revolver
Of its size, not complaining, I consider it to be my, let me
Retract, one of my favorite revolvers!!
 
Yes but they have to cast the part, rather than just buying barstock.
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Come on Craig are you thinking about what you are saying.
If it was cheaper and/or easier to machine parts from bar stock we wouldn't have any MIM or cast parts.
They make cylinders and barrels from forged steel for strength.
 
I'd be interested to put it on a scale. Just checked Smith's website and they list the 3" at 36.8 oz but the 7" version is listed at 51.2oz they're all the same gun with the same grip. So 2" is worth 1/2 oz from 3 to 5" and 13.8 oz from a 5 to a 7"???
 
mavracer, I know, I was just there my self, revolvers, page
Seven, top, far right, that's the one in question. 37.4 oz
I mean my GP100 is only an inch more and weighs way
More! Just wondering what's up. S&W site snafu or what?
 
Dan Wesson made their large frame revolvers similar to the Ruger design. No side plates. I guess this causes less flex..or maybe less asymmetrical flex under heavy loads?
 
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