Seemingly poor accuracy test shipped with pistol.

[jessegpresley]

Saw this on Gunbroker. It seems like this isn't a very good accuracy test for a $2500 pistol?

 

[1911Tuner]

Accuracy

Depends on how the test target was fired. Offhand...or from a rest.
Either way, the group looks to be about 2 inches, and 2 inches at 25 yards ain't too shabby. Not match-level, but fully up to any reasonable street requirements. The main question is: Is the gun reliable?

 

[Old Fuff]

I can't make out what it says on the test target, but it appears that it might be "25 yds." If that is the case, and moreso if the pistol was hand-held, that would be acceptable to me. I agree with Tuner - if the pistol might be used as a weapon, reliability is far more important then match-grade accuracy. Also if you deduct what might have been a flyer to the left, the rest of the group looks pretty good. Is it worth the money? That depends on what the base gun was in the first place, and what has been done to it in the second place.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Though others have said it, I'll ring in with the same.

You don't buy an Ed Brown like that because it groups pretty.
It groups well enough for it's purpose, that's all that target shows.

You buy a gun like that because you want it to ALWAYS work when you pull the trigger, and Ed Brown's certainly do that.

 

[pcf]

I had a similar test target with a pistol, the group size is pretty decent for 25yds. What I'd be concered is the spot it occupies on the target, 5-6" outside of the center. Of course, that could be the shooter and not the sights/gun.

 

[rustymaggot]

i have a tallent for making out low res pics. far as i can read it says "25 yds(somthing somthing) 200gr fmj" is that correct?

also it looks like a 3 to 3.5 inch group to me. definately over 2 inches. unless the gun is really small.

id like to see what it does in a new range test.

 

[TexasRifleman]

i have a tallent for making out low res pics. far as i can read it says "25 yds(somthing somthing) 200gr fmj" is that correct?

also it looks like a 3 to 3.5 inch group to me. definately over 2 inches. unless the gun is really small.

id like to see what it does in a new range test.

And it's entirely possible that the person selling it can't shoot worth a damn either

That may not be a factory test target.

 

[Shear_stress]

As said above, the group isn't stellar, but I wouldn't sweat a factory test target, especially when it's unclear under what conditions it was made.

As for reliability, that's a different issue. Two and a half grand just for a reliable semi-auto? For that kind of scratch, it better make me a cup of coffee. I don't play in the Ed Brown league, but I hope buyers of these guns expect more than reliability for their money.

 

[1911Tuner]

Group

i have a tallent for making out low res pics. far as i can read it says "25 yds(somthing somthing) 200gr fmj" is that correct?

also it looks like a 3 to 3.5 inch group to me. definately over 2 inches. unless the gun is really small.

id like to see what it does in a new range test.

Rusty...Use the magazine for a size comparison. Looks to be about half the length of the mag at the widest point. Two...maybe two and a quarter inches.

Also keep in mind that the first round out of most autos will be out of the group unless the gun is very carefully built. Suggest that the new owner
fire three 5-shot groups after throwing the first shot away...and taking an average.

 

[jessegpresley]

The main question is: Is the gun reliable?

Can there not be two questions for $2,500? Is the gun reliable, and is the gun accurate? One without the other is a bit useless, in my most humble of opinions.

As you can see by my post count I'm a newbie, I thought they were shooting at the black/white square target printed on the paper!

 

[1911Tuner]

The Other Question

Can there not be two questions for $2,500? Is the gun reliable, and is the gun accurate? One without the other is a bit useless, in my most humble of opinions.

As you can see by my post count I'm a newbie, I thought they were shooting at the black/white square target printed on the paper!

Sure there can...but I don't really see a problem with the accuracy unless you want a bullseye pistol. Like I said...2 inches or so at 25 yards ain't too bad for a defensive sidearm. If target work is your game, then you may want a little more. Test it with good ammo off a rest to get a better idea of what the gun is capable of...and then test it in YOUR hands to see if you can match the rested group average. That's the true litmus test...Can you match the gun's ability...on demand... shooting from offhand. If you can, you're an exception.

The point of impact above the point of aim is about par for 25 yards if the sights are set to ordnance spec for a 50-yard zero...or maybe a bit high. Another ammo lot may print to a different point of aim. 2 inches high at 25
works out to roughly zeroed at 50 with standard ball or equivalent ammo.

 

[McNutt]

I would definitely be concerned if this was an Ed Brown factory target sheet. If shot at 25 yards offhand it's not that bad, but to be so dang high? He's practically hitting the target clamps there. You'd think the factory shooter would be accustomed to the gun/sights by now.

 

[JohnBT]

Hi Tuner.

From the FAQ @ http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach.../FAQ.htm+Ed+Brown++test+target&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"How are the fixed sights set up? What is the point of aim?

Ed Brown handguns with fixed sights are set to impact 3" high at 25 yards. This allows center hits on a standard 6" bullseye using a 6:00 hold, which is the preferred sight picture of professional shooters. The 6:00 hold is described as balancing the bullseye on top of your aligned sight picture. The primary advantages of the 6:00 hold is that it is more consistent and precise, and the sights do not cover up the target. This same setup allows "dead-on" hits at 50 yards with the 45 ACP."

___________

It's just a test target folks. If it was one ragged hole you'd have to wonder if it was the first try or the 37th.

I'm still laughing at the discussions about the test targets that come with some of the CZ rifles...lots of their rifles don't even have sights. They shoot them...bang, bang, bang...and ship them.

John

 

[McNutt]

In that case the target looks fine.

 

[huntershooter]

My expectation of a 2500.00 pistol would be that it always go "bang" and do so VERY accurately. My personal opinion is Brown guns are overpriced and overated. Oh. I've never seen a serious (professional?) bullseye shooter use FIXED sights! I want my self defense/"game" guns to shoot right on top of the front sight @ 15-25 yds., not 3" high.

 

[Moonclip]

I have gotten factory test target with a few guns. One, a Taurus mod 96, a clone of a S&W mod 17 22lr revolver had a poor test target and itshowed when I shot it. My dads CZ75B in 40S&W came with a poor group on a computer genrated target too but it did better when I shot it.

My S&W 629classic DX came with a good test target and they are not suppose to be shipped unless they make a certain accuracy requirement I can't remember.

 

[MCgunner]

I wouldn't trade you my sub 2" at 25 yard Ruger P90 for it. For $2500, I'd expect more. But, it might shoot better with different ammo. You should do your own range testing with a variety of ammo. If it has any failures to feed and (not OR) it can't shoot below 3" off sand bags at 25 yards for that kind of money, well, at least it's pretty. Find something it likes, though, and stick with it. It might be a little picky about bullets. Hardball isn't always the best performer. It might like a lighter bullet for some reason like rifling twist or something.

Sub four inches off sand bags at 25 yards is often quoted as good enough for government work for a combat auto, but I'd have higher expectations for a service sized gun for that sort of money, especially when for under five hundred bucks I know I can get one that accurate and completely reliable. My little compact nine and my snubbie revolvers will shoot well under 4" with ammo they like.

 

[1911Tuner]

Combat Accurate

Well...How accurate does it need to be? Simple answer. If it's accurate enough to engage the target at the range and under the conditions that the target presents itself...it's accurate enough.

Another way to look at it:

If it'll stay in 3 inches at 25 yards, that works out to less than an inch at 7 yards...which is about the average distance that shooting situations occur.
Add to the equation that, since you may not even have the time to use the sights...and that you won't likely have enough light to SEE the sights in the typical deadly force encounter:

Whatthehelldifferencedoesitmakeifthegunwon'tshootonetinyraggedhole?

 

[chickenfried]

I think a buyer expects a high level of reliability and accuracy when spending $2500 on a gun. Not just combat accuracy.

 

[MCgunner]

I think a buyer expects a high level of reliability and accuracy when spending $2500 on a gun. Not just combat accuracy.

Yeah, that's my point. For that kinda money you'd think it'd shoot like a friggin' rifle and feed anything. However, in that particular weapon you're probably paying for reliability, which is far more important than X ring accuracy in a gunfight. I ain't sayin' it won't shoot a lot better than that, too, with a load it likes. Ball ain't the most accurate most times. It is a work of art, too. Kinda a shame to put holster wear on it, eh?

 

[CraigJS]

Perhaps with different ammo that the gun likes better, the group would also be smaller..

 

[MCgunner]

Here's what yer cheap POS Ruger's do...beauty is as beauty does?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

IS THAT TEST TARGET REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GUN?

Until a new owner shoots it himself, and assesses accuracy, this is all speculation.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Is it "not very good" because of the single flyer or because all shots are above the actual target square?
I'd say like the others, it's pretty darn good accuracy. evevation isn't an issue since sights are adjustable. having a shotgun like patetrn...that's bad and not corrected simply by sight adjustment.

 

[MCgunner]

IS THAT TEST TARGET REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GUN?

Until a new owner shoots it himself, and assesses accuracy, this is all speculation.

Exactly. That Ruger, the left target is about a 1 1/4" group with Speer 200 grain JHPs. The right is a cast SWC from a Lee mold and is about 1.5 " C-C. with ball, the gun shoots a little over 2". Guns like some bullets/loads better. That target doesn't look 3.5" to me. It looks under 3". But, I make no claims for eye sight. I'd be willing to bet money it'll shoot a bullet/load it likes under 2". Ball sux in most guns.

Oh, and a lighter bullet will hit lower. Try something around 200 grains. If it's still too high, try a 185 grainer. I like the gun to hit a "combat hold" meaning I cut the bullseye with the top of the front blade.