self defense against police?

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Greell

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So we've all heard stories of police using brute force...but let me toss this scenario at you...

Say you are in a room with multiple other witnesses, while the cops are arresting someone for what seems something like "causing a scene"....

now...say for example you yell out something obscene like "what the FK! FKing Police Brutality!"

and a cop comes up to you because you said that, and starts yelling at you (but not giving you orders other than "don't you curse!")

and suddenly because you're being a smartmouth, he takes a swing at you, with his fist, or a billy club or whatever, and you DEFEND yourself, and you block his attack, and you knock him on his ass.

Questions:


a. Do you think that would be a justified defense? especially with so many eye-witnesses that saw the officer assault you without just-cause?

b. I don't know how it is in every state, but if I'm not mistaken, you are allowed to swear at anyone you want because of freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't violate other laws, such as defamation of character.

Just a random scenario, I was talking with some people at work today and I was wondering what you fellow THR members would say.
 
This doesn't quite fit your scenario, but here's an interesting Oregon law I ran across a few days ago:

161.260 Use of physical force in resisting arrest prohibited.
A person may not use physical force to resist an arrest by a peace officer who is known or reasonably appears to be a peace officer, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful.

What a load of bull****. :rolleyes:
 
A person may not use physical force to resist an arrest by a peace officer who is known or reasonably appears to be a peace officer, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful.


Fairly certain that would not stand up to a federal challenge.There's a particular case I'm thinking of that validates a persons right to phsyically resist an unlawful arrest. I'll try to look it up tonight.
 
What if you're a cop and you're making a lawful arrest, and someone shouts "police brutality" and a whole bunch of people jump on you, and steal your gun, and handcuff you, and taze you, and spray you with mace, and pull your pants down, and take pictures of you, to post on the world wide web.

Would you like, get into trouble dude?
 
thats not exactly the same scenario I posted.

warm image though.
 
Illinois law:

Your right to use force to resist an arrest: hmmm don't have one :uhoh:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...SeqEnd=9300000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
(720 ILCS 5/7‑7) (from Ch. 38, par. 7‑7)
Sec. 7‑7. Private person's use of force in resisting arrest. A person is not authorized to use force to resist an arrest which he knows is being made either by a peace officer or by a private person summoned and directed by a peace officer to make the arrest, even if he believes that the arrest is unlawful and the arrest in fact is unlawful.
(Source: P.A. 86‑1475.)

The rest of these are all things you could be charged with:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=23700000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
(Text of Section from P.A. 94‑482)
Sec. 12‑2. Aggravated assault.
(a) A person commits an aggravated assault, when, in committing an assault, he:
(1) Uses a deadly weapon or any device manufactured and designed to be substantially similar in appearance to a firearm, other than by discharging a firearm in the direction of another person, a peace officer, a person summoned or directed by a peace officer, a correctional officer or a fireman or in the direction of a vehicle occupied by another person, a peace officer, a person summoned or directed by a peace officer, a correctional officer or a fireman while the officer or fireman is engaged in the execution of any of his official duties, or to prevent the officer or fireman from performing his official duties, or in retaliation for the officer or fireman performing his official duties;
(2) Is hooded, robed or masked in such manner as to conceal his identity or any device manufactured and designed to be substantially similar in appearance to a firearm;
(3) Knows the individual assaulted to be a teacher or other person employed in any school and such teacher or other employee is upon the grounds of a school or grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building used for school purposes;
(4) Knows the individual assaulted to be a supervisor, director, instructor or other person employed in any park district and such supervisor, director, instructor or other employee is upon the grounds of the park or grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building used for park purposes;
(5) Knows the individual assaulted to be a caseworker, investigator, or other person employed by the State Department of Public Aid, a County Department of Public Aid, or the Department of Human Services (acting as successor to the Illinois Department of Public Aid under the Department of Human Services Act) and such caseworker, investigator, or other person is upon the grounds of a public aid office or grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building used for public aid purposes, or upon the grounds of a home of a public aid applicant, recipient or any other person being interviewed or investigated in the employees' discharge of his duties, or on grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building in which the applicant, recipient, or other such person resides or is located;
(6) Knows the individual assaulted to be a peace officer, or a community policing volunteer, or a fireman while the officer or fireman is engaged in the execution of any of his official duties, or to prevent the officer, community policing volunteer, or fireman from performing his official duties, or in retaliation for the officer, community policing volunteer, or fireman performing his official duties, and the assault is committed other than by the discharge of a firearm in the direction of the officer or fireman or in the direction of a vehicle occupied by the officer or fireman;
(7) Knows the individual assaulted to be an

emergency medical technician ‑ ambulance, emergency medical technician ‑ intermediate, emergency medical technician ‑ paramedic, ambulance driver or other medical assistance or first aid personnel engaged in the execution of any of his official duties, or to prevent the emergency medical technician ‑ ambulance, emergency medical technician ‑ intermediate, emergency medical technician ‑ paramedic, ambulance driver, or other medical assistance or first aid personnel from performing his official duties, or in retaliation for the emergency medical technician ‑ ambulance, emergency medical technician ‑ intermediate, emergency medical technician ‑ paramedic, ambulance driver, or other medical assistance or first aid personnel performing his official duties;
(8) Knows the individual assaulted to be the driver,

operator, employee or passenger of any transportation facility or system engaged in the business of transportation of the public for hire and the individual assaulted is then performing in such capacity or then using such public transportation as a passenger or using any area of any description designated by the transportation facility or system as a vehicle boarding, departure, or transfer location;
(9) Or the individual assaulted is on or about a

public way, public property, or public place of accommodation or amusement;
(9.5) Is, or the individual assaulted is, in or about

a publicly or privately owned sports or entertainment arena, stadium, community or convention hall, special event center, amusement facility, or a special event center in a public park during any 24‑hour period when a professional sporting event, National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)‑sanctioned sporting event, United States Olympic Committee‑sanctioned sporting event, or International Olympic Committee‑sanctioned sporting event is taking place in this venue;
(10) Knows the individual assaulted to be an

employee of the State of Illinois, a municipal corporation therein or a political subdivision thereof, engaged in the performance of his authorized duties as such employee;
(11) Knowingly and without legal justification,

commits an assault on a physically handicapped person;
(12) Knowingly and without legal justification,

commits an assault on a person 60 years of age or older;
(13) Discharges a firearm;
(14) Knows the individual assaulted to be a

correctional officer, while the officer is engaged in the execution of any of his or her official duties, or to prevent the officer from performing his or her official duties, or in retaliation for the officer performing his or her official duties;
(15) Knows the individual assaulted to be a

correctional employee or an employee of the Department of Human Services supervising or controlling sexually dangerous persons or sexually violent persons, while the employee is engaged in the execution of any of his or her official duties, or to prevent the employee from performing his or her official duties, or in retaliation for the employee performing his or her official duties, and the assault is committed other than by the discharge of a firearm in the direction of the employee or in the direction of a vehicle occupied by the employee;
(16) Knows the individual assaulted to be an

employee of a police or sheriff's department engaged in the performance of his or her official duties as such employee; or
(17) Knows the individual assaulted to be a sports

official or coach at any level of competition and the act causing the assault to the sports official or coach occurred within an athletic facility or an indoor or outdoor playing field or within the immediate vicinity of the athletic facility or an indoor or outdoor playing field at which the sports official or coach was an active participant in the athletic contest held at the athletic facility. For the purposes of this paragraph (17), "sports official" means a person at an athletic contest who enforces the rules of the contest, such as an umpire or referee; and "coach" means a person recognized as a coach by the sanctioning authority that conducted the athletic contest.
(a‑5) A person commits an aggravated assault when he or she knowingly and without lawful justification shines or flashes a laser gunsight or other laser device that is attached or affixed to a firearm, or used in concert with a firearm, so that the laser beam strikes near or in the immediate vicinity of any person.
(b) Sentence.
Aggravated assault as defined in paragraphs (1) through (5) and (8) through (12) and (17) of subsection (a) of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor. Aggravated assault as defined in paragraphs (13), (14), and (15) of subsection (a) of this Section and as defined in subsection (a‑5) of this Section is a Class 4 felony. Aggravated assault as defined in paragraphs (6), (7), and (16) of subsection (a) of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor if a firearm is not used in the commission of the assault. Aggravated assault as defined in paragraphs (6), (7), and (16) of subsection (a) of this Section is a Class 4 felony if a firearm is used in the commission of the assault.
(Source: P.A. 93‑692, eff. 1‑1‑05; 94‑482, eff. 1‑1‑06.)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=23700000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
(720 ILCS 5/12‑4) (from Ch. 38, par. 12‑4)
(Text of Section from P.A. 94‑243)
Sec. 12‑4. Aggravated Battery.
(a) A person who, in committing a battery, intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, or permanent disability or disfigurement commits aggravated battery.
(b) In committing a battery, a person commits aggravated battery if he or she:
(1) Uses a deadly weapon other than by the discharge of a firearm;
(2) Is hooded, robed or masked, in such manner as to conceal his identity;
(3) Knows the individual harmed to be a teacher or other person employed in any school and such teacher or other employee is upon the grounds of a school or grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building used for school purposes;
(4) Knows the individual harmed to be a supervisor, director, instructor or other person employed in any park district and such supervisor, director, instructor or other employee is upon the grounds of the park or grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building used for park purposes;
(5) Knows the individual harmed to be a caseworker, investigator, or other person employed by the State Department of Public Aid, a County Department of Public Aid, or the Department of Human Services (acting as successor to the Illinois Department of Public Aid under the Department of Human Services Act) and such caseworker, investigator, or other person is upon the grounds of a public aid office or grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building used for public aid purposes, or upon the grounds of a home of a public aid applicant, recipient, or any other person being interviewed or investigated in the employee's discharge of his duties, or on grounds adjacent thereto, or is in any part of a building in which the applicant, recipient, or other such person resides or is located;
(6) Knows the individual harmed to be a peace officer, a community policing volunteer, a correctional institution employee, an employee of the Department of Human Services supervising or controlling sexually dangerous persons or sexually violent persons, or a fireman while such officer, volunteer, employee or fireman is engaged in the execution of any official duties including arrest or attempted arrest, or to prevent the officer, volunteer, employee or fireman from performing official duties, or in retaliation for the officer, volunteer, employee or fireman performing official duties, and the battery is committed other than by the discharge of a firearm;
(7) Knows the individual harmed to be an emergency

medical technician ‑ ambulance, emergency medical technician ‑ intermediate, emergency medical technician ‑ paramedic, ambulance driver, other medical assistance, first aid personnel, or hospital personnel engaged in the performance of any of his or her official duties, or to prevent the emergency medical technician ‑ ambulance, emergency medical technician ‑ intermediate, emergency medical technician ‑ paramedic, ambulance driver, other medical assistance, first aid personnel, or hospital personnel from performing official duties, or in retaliation for performing official duties;
(8) Is, or the person battered is, on or about a

public way, public property or public place of accommodation or amusement;
(9) Knows the individual harmed to be the driver,

operator, employee or passenger of any transportation facility or system engaged in the business of transportation of the public for hire and the individual assaulted is then performing in such capacity or then using such public transportation as a passenger or using any area of any description designated by the transportation facility or system as a vehicle boarding, departure, or transfer location;
(10) Knowingly and without legal justification and

by any means causes bodily harm to an individual of 60 years of age or older;
(11) Knows the individual harmed is pregnant;
(12) Knows the individual harmed to be a judge whom

the person intended to harm as a result of the judge's performance of his or her official duties as a judge;
(13) Knows the individual harmed to be an employee

of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services engaged in the performance of his authorized duties as such employee;
(14) Knows the individual harmed to be a person who

is physically handicapped;
(15) Knowingly and without legal justification and

by any means causes bodily harm to a merchant who detains the person for an alleged commission of retail theft under Section 16A‑5 of this Code. In this item (15), "merchant" has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 16A‑2.4 of this Code;
(16) Is, or the person battered is, in any building

or other structure used to provide shelter or other services to victims or to the dependent children of victims of domestic violence pursuant to the Illinois Domestic Violence Act of 1986 or the Domestic Violence Shelters Act, or the person battered is within 500 feet of such a building or other structure while going to or from such a building or other structure. "Domestic violence" has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 103 of the Illinois Domestic Violence Act of 1986. "Building or other structure used to provide shelter" has the meaning ascribed to "shelter" in Section 1 of the Domestic Violence Shelters Act; or
(17) Knows the individual harmed to be an employee

of a police or sheriff's department engaged in the performance of his or her official duties as such employee.
(18) Knows the individual harmed to be an emergency

management worker engaged in the performance of any of his or her official duties, or to prevent the emergency management worker from performing official duties, or in retaliation for the emergency management worker performing official duties.
For the purpose of paragraph (14) of subsection (b) of this Section, a physically handicapped person is a person who suffers from a permanent and disabling physical characteristic, resulting from disease, injury, functional disorder or congenital condition.
(c) A person who administers to an individual or causes him to take, without his consent or by threat or deception, and for other than medical purposes, any intoxicating, poisonous, stupefying, narcotic, anesthetic, or controlled substance commits aggravated battery.
(d) A person who knowingly gives to another person any food that contains any substance or object that is intended to cause physical injury if eaten, commits aggravated battery.
(d‑3) A person commits aggravated battery when he or she knowingly and without lawful justification shines or flashes a laser gunsight or other laser device that is attached or affixed to a firearm, or used in concert with a firearm, so that the laser beam strikes upon or against the person of another.
(d‑5) An inmate of a penal institution or a sexually dangerous person or a sexually violent person in the custody of the Department of Human Services who causes or attempts to cause a correctional employee of the penal institution or an employee of the Department of Human Services to come into contact with blood, seminal fluid, urine, or feces, by throwing, tossing, or expelling that fluid or material commits aggravated battery. For purposes of this subsection (d‑5), "correctional employee" means a person who is employed by a penal institution.
(e) Sentence.
Aggravated battery is a Class 3 felony, except a violation of subsection (a) is a Class 2 felony when the person knows the individual harmed to be a peace officer engaged in the execution of any of his or her official duties, or the battery is to prevent the officer from performing his or her official duties, or in retaliation for the officer performing his or her official duties.
(Source: P.A. 93‑83, eff. 7‑2‑03; 94‑243, eff. 1‑1‑06.)
 
(720 ILCS 5/12‑5) (from Ch. 38, par. 12‑5)
Sec. 12‑5. Reckless conduct.
(a) A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of an individual by any means, commits reckless conduct if he or she performs recklessly the acts that cause the harm or endanger safety, whether they otherwise are lawful or unlawful.
(a‑5) A person who causes great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement by any means, commits reckless conduct if he or she performs recklessly the acts that cause the harm, whether they otherwise are lawful or unlawful.
(b) Sentence.
Reckless conduct under subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor. Reckless conduct under subsection (a‑5) is a Class 4 felony.
(Source: P.A. 93‑710, eff. 1‑1‑05.)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=55200000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
(720 ILCS 5/Art. 26 heading)
ARTICLE 26. DISORDERLY CONDUCT
(720 ILCS 5/26‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26‑1)
Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or
(2) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to the fire department of any city, town, village or fire protection district a false alarm of fire, knowing at the time of such transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that such fire exists; or
(3) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to another a false alarm to the effect that a bomb or other explosive of any nature or a container holding poison gas, a deadly biological or chemical contaminant, or radioactive substance is concealed in such place that its explosion or release would endanger human life, knowing at the time of such transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that such bomb, explosive or a container holding poison gas, a deadly biological or chemical contaminant, or radioactive substance is concealed in such place; or
(4) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to any peace officer, public officer or public employee a report to the effect that an offense will be committed, is being committed, or has been committed, knowing at the time of such transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that such an offense will be committed, is being committed, or has been committed; or
(5) Enters upon the property of another and for a lewd or unlawful purpose deliberately looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in it; or
(6) While acting as a collection agency as defined in the "Collection Agency Act" or as an employee of such collection agency, and while attempting to collect an alleged debt, makes a telephone call to the alleged debtor which is designed to harass, annoy or intimidate the alleged debtor; or
(7) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report to the Department of Children and Family Services under Section 4 of the "Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act"; or
(8) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report to the Department of Public Health under the Nursing Home Care Act; or
(9) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to the police department or fire department of any municipality or fire protection district, or any privately owned and operated ambulance service, a false request for an ambulance, emergency medical technician‑ambulance or emergency medical technician‑paramedic knowing at the time there is no reasonable ground for believing that such assistance is required; or
(10) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report under Article II of "An Act in relation to victims of violence and abuse", approved September 16, 1984, as amended; or
(11) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report to any public safety agency without the reasonable grounds necessary to believe that transmitting such a report is necessary for the safety and welfare of the public; or
(12) Calls the number "911" for the purpose of making or transmitting a false alarm or complaint and reporting information when, at the time the call or transmission is made, the person knows there is no reasonable ground for making the call or transmission and further knows that the call or transmission could result in the emergency response of any public safety agency.
(b) Sentence. A violation of subsection (a)(1) of this Section is a Class C misdemeanor. A violation of subsection (a)(5), (a)(11), or (a)(12) of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor. A violation of subsection (a)(8) or (a)(10) of this Section is a Class B misdemeanor. A violation of subsection (a)(2), (a)(4), (a)(7), or (a)(9) of this Section is a Class 4 felony. A violation of subsection (a)(3) of this Section is a Class 3 felony, for which a fine of not less than $3,000 and no more than $10,000 shall be assessed in addition to any other penalty imposed.
A violation of subsection (a)(6) of this Section is a Business Offense and shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $3,000. A second or subsequent violation of subsection (a)(7), (a)(11), or (a)(12) of this Section is a Class 4 felony. A third or subsequent violation of subsection (a)(5) of this Section is a Class 4 felony.
(c) In addition to any other sentence that may be imposed, a court shall order any person convicted of disorderly conduct to perform community service for not less than 30 and not more than 120 hours, if community service is available in the jurisdiction and is funded and approved by the county board of the county where the offense was committed. In addition, whenever any person is placed on supervision for an alleged offense under this Section, the supervision shall be conditioned upon the performance of the community service.
This subsection does not apply when the court imposes a sentence of incarceration.
(Source: P.A. 92‑16, eff. 6‑28‑01; 92‑502, eff. 12‑19‑01; 93‑431, eff. 8‑5‑03.)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=60500000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
(720 ILCS 5/Art. 31 heading)
ARTICLE 31. INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC OFFICERS
(720 ILCS 5/31‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 31‑1)
Sec. 31‑1. Resisting or obstructing a peace officer or correctional institution employee.
(a) A person who knowingly resists or obstructs the performance by one known to the person to be a peace officer or correctional institution employee of any authorized act within his official capacity commits a Class A misdemeanor.
(a‑5) In addition to any other sentence that may be imposed, a court shall order any person convicted of resisting or obstructing a peace officer to be sentenced to a minimum of 48 consecutive hours of imprisonment or ordered to perform community service for not less than 100 hours as may be determined by the court. The person shall not be eligible for probation in order to reduce the sentence of imprisonment or community service.
(a‑7) A person convicted for a violation of this Section whose violation was the proximate cause of an injury to a peace officer is guilty of a Class 4 felony.
(b) For purposes of this Section, "correctional institution employee" means any person employed to supervise and control inmates incarcerated in a penitentiary, State farm, reformatory, prison, jail, house of correction, police detention area, half‑way house, or other institution or place for the incarceration or custody of persons under sentence for offenses or awaiting trial or sentence for offenses, under arrest for an offense, a violation of probation, a violation of parole, or a violation of mandatory supervised release, or awaiting a bail setting hearing or preliminary hearing, or who are sexually dangerous persons or who are sexually violent persons.
(Source: P.A. 92‑841, eff. 8‑22‑02.)

Now after reading that, don't you think it would be a better idea to keep your mouth shut, watch what's going on and if you feel there was misconduct, report it to the proper authorities? Never, ever get into an argument with an officer on the street. That's not the place where our system decides sticky questions of constitutional law. We have courts for that. The odds are stacked in the officers favor out there on the street.

You may be the next YouTube hero, cafe press might be selling shirts with your favorite quote from the altercation on it. But most likely all those people who watch your video on YouTube aren't going to contribute to your legal defense.....

Jeff
 
haha. Well it's ironic you mention youtube hero, because our conversation sparked watching some kid on youtube in a library getting tazed over and over again because he kept resisting arrest.


Although reading all that blue text you posted is very cool and good info. It somehow reminds me of this dream I had a few times where I woke up 2 guys walk into my room with guns and (thinking im asleep) start quietly going through my stuff.

I woke up, assuming they are robbers,grabbed my gun next to my bed, saw them go for their guns, and I shot them both dead.

when I turned the lights on I went over to them to move their guns away, and found that they had badges, but were in street cloths, and they made no effort to announce they were police (before I shot them )


wierd dream eh? I don't know why I have that dream repeatedly. when you said "Knows the individual harmed to be a peace officer,"
it made me think of "what if I don't know?"
 
haha. Well it's ironic you mention youtube hero, because our conversation sparked watching some kid on youtube in a library getting tazed over and over again because he kept resisting arrest.

There will be many copycats, people looking for the instant celebrity they can get.

It somehow reminds me of this dream I had a few times where I woke up 2 guys walk into my room with guns and (thinking im asleep) start quietly going through my stuff.

I woke up, assuming they are robbers,grabbed my gun next to my bed, saw them go for their guns, and I shot them both dead.

when I turned the lights on I went over to them to move their guns away, and found that they had badges, but were in street cloths, and they made no effort to announce they were police (before I shot them )

They wouldn't come into your room and go through your stuff without securing you first. To be accurate, your dream would be you being awakened, presented with the warrant and removed from the room. Depending on the circumstances, you may or may not be awakened at gun point and you may or may not be handcuffed.

wierd dream eh? I don't know why I have that dream repeatedly.

I don't know either. Perhaps you should talk to someone about that.

when you said "Knows the individual harmed to be a peace officer,"
it made me think of "what if I don't know?"

If you honestly don't know you might have a defense. But, you're going to have to convince a jury or a judge you honestly didn't know. Not much police action is taken under the guise of being UPS drivers or other disguises. The police will ID themselves before taking any enforcement action. So when the officer testifies "I stated loudly that I was a police officer." You better have a witness or better yet more then one saying he didn't or you'd better be able to prove you are deaf as a post.

Jeff
 
My friend got arrested for resisting arrest. No kidding. I am not cop bashing, my father if LEO. But give me a break.

If a dirty cop over stepped the bounds and was assaulting me I make him aware that I belong to no man.
 
Well thats what makes it such a strange dream. like something out of a movie (and we ALL know how realistic movies are....)

they don't ID themselves, and they can't testify because they're dead. and in the dream they don't have any warrants or reasons...

I have a lot of respect for police. The ones that take their job seriously and well, are fantastic. A lot of them are cool people to know too.

But I have sadly met a fair share of "power makes me awesome!" cops---that act like jackasses ---and i hate when everyone uses the "well they're just being cautious"....im not talking about those leo's, im talking about the "power hungry" ones.

no respect for people like that at all. I guess I've had bad experience with a few officers before, where I am respectful and they are jackasses in return. hmm.


*edit*

If a dirty cop over stepped the bounds and was assaulting me I make him aware that I belong to no man.

I would agree with that. I wouldn't do anything like shoot the cop or anything. But if he was crooked, and trying to "make me his bitch" in a situation, I would defend myself regardless, Even if it did mean trouble. My dignity and pride is not negotiable. However, they do say "pride goeth before the fall"....but if that's true, it won't go when he tries to make me fall!
 
Texas is a state that allows for deadly force against a LEO, in very narrow and specific circumstances that have a bit of vagueness to them.
 
In California, some time ago, a fellow used self-defense as his defense in his trial for killing IIRC two police officers.

He won his case, so then at least you could make the claim.

Note though that it didn't stop him from being prosecuted, and had he lost he would have spent the rest of his life in prison. Probably on death row.

Sorry no link, this was pre-web by a long time.
 
I looked this up not too long ago to see if what I was told about Maryland law was correct on this issue. In MD it is legal to resist an unlawful arrest and I read somewhere there are only about 19 states (or something like that) left that still allow resisting an unlawful arrest.

In Maryland, as I have been told by some LEOs, if someone resists arrest and the charges for the initial arrest are dropped for some reason, or if they are found not guilty of the initial crime, then the resisiting arrest charge is now moot.

It is beyond cavil that “the right to resist an unlawful, warrantless arrest remains the law of Maryland.” In re Albert S.,106 Md. App. 376, 397 (1995). Moreover, “an essential element of [the crime of] resisting arrest is that the arrest be lawful." Monk v. State, 94 Md. App. 738, 742 (1993). Thus, when confrontedwith an unlawful, warrantless arrest, one may lawfully resist by resorting to reasonable force. Dennis v. State, 342 Md. 196, 212 (1996), aff’d after remand, 345 Md. 649 (1997); Barnhard v. State,325 Md. 602, 614 (1992); Rodgers v. State, 280 Md. 406, 410, cert.denied, 434 U.S. 928 (1977); Monk, 94 Md. App. at 745. The right to resist by the use of reasonable force is sometimes referred to as a “privilege.” In re Albert S., 106 Md. App. at 396-97
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...t+maryland+19+states&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
 
Was there not a recent case of resisting arrest tossed because the police entered illegally, in fact w/o a warrant, and the husband pretty much beat them senseless? I am sure the laws will vary radically from state-to-state on this one.

Regardless, the smart thing seems to be to comply, lawyer up and become a very wealthy man instead of a very dead man.
 
No, you don't have a right to "swear" in public (loudly) at anyone; at least, not in PA. In your own home, if that's the thing you do then more power to you!

As for your scenario - I think the self defense is legitimate but unless the actions of the police officer are extremely excessive, calling attention to themselves, you simply are not going to win in court.

Right does not always win.

It is also more efficacious to pleasant than right!
 
Regardless, the smart thing seems to be to comply, lawyer up and become a very wealthy man instead of a very dead man.
I know of no cases where 'wealth' was obtained due to unlawful arrest. Every court that i've ever read about has ALWAYS come down on the side of LEO with arrests so long as policy is followed.
 
Virginia law actually has a provision in it that allows a person to use any force needed to resist an unlawful arrest.

Your scenario, however, would NOT have qualified, since "curse and abuse" is illegal. So is interfering with a police investigation.

The biggest hurdle is the thousands upon thousands of laws on the books. If you think you can go through a day without breaking at least one, you're fooling yourself.

Some POS recently tried to claim self-defense after executing a Norfolk cop who was laying on the ground. I forsee much cyanide gas in his future.
 
Just this week in my Criminal Law class, the prof informed us that in NC it is lawful to use non-lethal force to stop an unlawful arrest. However, in the same breath, he stressed that it is a very very very bad idea to even try it.

So much as touching an officer with your pinky finger while trying to resist an unlawful arrest is risking aggravated assault. And, that's a felony. And, if you're found guilty, kiss your rkba goodbye.

It's possible you could win the physical confrontation. And, it's possible you could win in court. But, it's highly unlikely.
 
Resisting Arrest

Here in Louisiana it is ,by statute,legal to resist a unlawful arrest with up to and including lethal force.

There is a state supreme court case from late seventies or the early eighties in which a state trooper was killed by a citizen during the course of an arrest in north Louisiana.

The court held that the officer was acting outside color of law(and knew it)

Louisiana does not offer whole protection to the police.Once a officer acts outside the law during the course of an arrest he/she is no longer protected by his/her office.

I have been trying to find this case for six months but with little success.It was discussed during our reserve training classes as an example of always being sure of what you are doing during the arrest process.
 
Say you are in a room with multiple other witnesses, while the cops are arresting someone for what seems something like "causing a scene"....

now...say for example you yell out something obscene like "what the FK! FKing Police Brutality!"

Then you deserve your ass kicked. People who like to stick their noses in everyone else's business are usually the ones who are looking for trouble.
 
Greell said:
Say you are in a room with multiple other witnesses, while the cops are arresting someone for what seems something like "causing a scene"....

now...say for example you yell out something obscene like "what the FK! FKing Police Brutality!"

It would be more productive for you to start recording the incident.

Greell said:
and suddenly because you're being a smartmouth, he takes a swing at you, with his fist, or a billy club or whatever, and you DEFEND yourself, and you block his attack, and you knock him on his ass.

While I think you'd be justified in defending yourself (since he was assaulting you and not attempting to arrest you), you'd probably be better off to take the shot and then sue. Getting into a scuffle with him would end up causing him some pain and discomfort; but not nearly as much as what he'd go through being sued as well as being the reason his department/city/state is being sued. Plus you'll get a few bucks out of the situation as well.

Fisherman_48768 said:
Don't swear at a public official in Michigan, you'll be doing time infront of a judge.

Proof? The only time I remember anyone going to court for profanity was a guy who was given a ticket for swearing while canoing. The appeals court declared the law to be both vague and unconstitutional.
 
We're in a police state, it's not even worth pondering.

Yes, you might win an appeal in Federal court after ten years or so in prison. That's assuming the cop's buddies let you live that long.
 
Similar topic... Let's say the police raid your house on a no-knock warrant but have the wrong house (this has happened a time or three according to CATO). Let's say you open fire because you think it's thugs on a home invasion spree, and you drop a couple of them. If you live through the encounter, I'm sure you'd be arrested. How would this play out in court?
 
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