Self Defense Issue...Urgent

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Bazooka Joe71

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OK, I have a couple of questions that I need answered ASAP...

First, I have a buddy, who does not own any guns, but as been with me to the range multiple times, and is fully capable of handling guns responsible. He has shot all of my rifles, handguns, and shotguns, and understands the 4 rules.

Right now, with his job, he is in the middle of a bad situation with the owners of the business recently getting a divorce, and also the new 100% owner(the wife) broke up with her psycho boyfriend recently and he has been calling my buddy telling him he "F***ed" up by taking the company truck and cellphone, etc....Last night, he called my buddy about 45 times and left about 15 messages telling him he needs to return this and that or bad things are going to happen(but he didnt really threaten my friend yet). Since my buddy has no guns, he asked if he could borrow one of mine and leave at his house to protect his family just in case. I was more than happy to let him after hearing these messages.

So here are my questions:

We live in Indiana, what are the self defense laws concerning a crazy guy that may come to his house and endanger his family...In other words, what would this guy have to do in order for my buddy to legally use this shotgun?

Second, is there anything wrong with what I did? Is it legal, since there is no registration for a shotgun, for me to let him borrow it for a couple of weeks? Especially if he has to use it?

Thanks in advance guys, any input will be greatly appreciated
 
Such an unbelievably bad idea. Why can't this guy get his own if he percieves the need to have one in the house?
 
He has never felt the need to own one, until right now, and more than likely, he wont have to use it, and they will be able to get a corporate restraining order, and it will be done with....Also, I "sold" it to him.

So instead of telling me how bad of an idea it was, how about informing me on what he should do....I know its a bad idea, but I wasn't going to turn him down if he or his family could be in danger of anything.
 
Sell your buddy a gun for $1.00, then it is his gun and you are off of the hook.

When the mess is over, buy back the gun.
 
My experience here has been that the legal advice one gets on this forum is usually worth not quite as much as one pays for it. Therefore I will offer you a nonlegal answer.

In my opinion for you to give (or sell) this person a deadly weapon, clearly implying that he use it in the circumstances you have described, is irresponsible.

Situations like you describe are why we have law enforcement authorities. If your friend acts on your advice he will most likely wish he had called the cops instead of you, and you may well share that wish.
 
So basically your saying that, if this guy broke into his house, and killed his family while the cops are on the way, would be better than him having the option to defend them with a firearm?

Fly320s,

thats exactly what I did...Does there need to be a written contract? This is why I asked the question, for ADVICE, not scrutiny
 
Make sure he files the appropriate complaints re the harrassing phone calls with the local law enforcement agency. He needs some documentation if something goes wrong to show that there was a pattern apparent.

He bought the gun from you. It is his gun. Buying a weapon to defend your family is a normal and sensical action performed every day around the country.

Disregard folks here who are not LE that are going to give you LE advice. They are not qualified to do so.
 
If your friend is in danger, why can't he go out and buy his own shotgun?

Can he bunk at your place for a few nights, till the situation calms down or resolves itself?

I would have googled or searched my local laws before i did anything. Waiting till after your friend has potentially used the shotgun and maybe killed someone with it is probably the WORST time to figure out what your state laws are concerning guns and their borrowing/loaning/use of same in self-defense.
 
Sorry to say...

You are asking your questions in the wrong place.
You should be asking them of your lawyer or local District attorney.
The police should also have been notified about those calls, and a complaint filed.
You could (maybe) sell him your shotgun. Then it is his. FOLLOW ALL LAWS REGARDING PRIVATE TRANSFERS!
I am not liable for any of the above as it is my OPINION.
YMMV
CYOAF
 
Disregard folks here who are not LE that are going to give you LE advice. They are not qualified to do so.
Click to expand...
In the event you are referring to me here, Raptor, be advised that I was a federal LEO for more than 20 years.
 
http://www.bloomfieldpress.com/SCGC Media Summary.htm

That isn't a legal binding website, but it does mention this.....

SUPREME COURT GUN CASES

Highlights
Released in September 2003, Supreme Court Gun Cases dispels the myth that the High Court has been quiet on the subject of guns. The book runs 672 pages, covers 92 gun-related cases, and this is the bottom line: the Supreme Court has upheld the legal tradition and historical record of private gun ownership, self defense, and armed self defense, since the country began. The days of saying Americans have no individual gun rights are now over.

Time and time again, the Court recognizes the individual right to keep and bear arms that we observe in every facet of American life, in this scrupulously researched text. The anti-rights argument collapses under the weight of the evidence, and will force gun banners to find something new to say. Americans have a constitutionally protected right to keep arms and to bear arms.Here's the tip of the iceberg:

(WARNING: The following is not legal advice. Local jurisdictions may not adhere to these Supreme Court results, may have introduced conflicting precedents, and may have enacted laws in direct conflict with these decisions or provisions in the Constitution.)

- A dozen nearly forgotten self-defense cases expressly recognized people's right to use personally owned firearms in defense of self, family and property.

- Going home to get your handgun for protection after being threatened was a reasonable act under the given circumstances.

- Borrowing a rifle for protection after you were threatened was a reasonable act under the given circumstances.

- Using a shotgun you normally carry for protection was a reasonable act under the given circumstances.

- Defending yourself against a criminal attack, in a place where you had a right to be, matching force with force, was perfectly legal under the given circumstances.

- Standing your ground against a criminal attack is justifiable, and although you can run if you are able or prefer to, there is normally no duty to retreat under American law. (Note that some states may have abandoned this fundamental principle.)
Click to expand...
 
Disregard folks here who are not LE that are going to give you LE advice. They are not qualified to do so.
Click to expand...

Also disregard legal advice from LEO's. Only take legal advice from lawyers.
LEOs have no clearer insight on the actual prosecution of crimes than any of the rest of us other than being called to testify.

See a lawyer.
 
Also disregard legal advice from LEO's. Only take legal advice from lawyers.
LEOs have no clearer insight on the actual prosecution of crimes than any of the rest of us other than being called to testify.

See a lawyer.
Click to expand...

FTW!

Hopw do you like them apples...
 
Coastie,

Obvously...you are not who I am referring to...LOL.

I am not giving legal advice. Never been a lawyer. I am trying to help by simply giving advice and explaining what the simple situation would be.
 
Legal advice aside, I vote for common sense.

Giving or selling or borrowing a gun to that friend LINKS you to whatever may happen no matter if it's justified or not.
The friend can stop off at a sporting goods store on the way home and pick up his own shotgun therefore leaving you out of the loop.

If he's really a good friend, he wouldn't want his buddy in the legal loop anyway.

Carter
 
Never, ever lend someone a gun. They can go down to Gander Mountain and pick up a pump shotgun and a pile of 00 buck shells for less than $200. This is better than having a borrowed gun. It's all legal and no issues with ownership.
 
Personaly i would loan him the cash to buy a gun if needed , but not the gun its self .

edited to add

My state does not have any waiting period tho , its instant check .. ymmv
 
I personally don't give two s**ts about the law. My friends are my friends. I don't have "sorta" friends. My friends are like family. If someon wants to harm them, I would loan them a firearm until they could obtain one themselves. The point being that I obviously dno't want my firearms confiscated should something happen, but I ain't gonna make them wait until payday or something like that to go get their own.

That said, why hasn't he contacted the police yet? Thats a natural progression in defending yourself after the immediate issue is taken care of. At least it will be documented that he is having trouble with the person.
 
If he has somebody else's property, he should give it back.

If they are leaving harassing messages, that is legally actionable.

If he's working for a psycho, he should leave.

If he needs a firearm, he needs to pull his head out, and buy his own.

If he's never seen the need to arm himself, he has been floating around in a soft puffy cloud of condition white.

Given your post, he could well kill someone, should they come around and attempt to lawfully reposess their company vehicle. BAD MOJO, especially with your gun.

Giving a firearm to someone who has never wrapped his brain around the possibility of killing someone, is irresponsible. He has no CLUE as to when he should use deadly force... nor, apparently, do you.

You shoot WHEN YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER, and you have no other option. There are all sorts of qualifications to that, BTW.

If you didn't know what stop signs and traffic lights were for, or ARGUED with me about it, I sure wouldn't lend you my car.

:banghead:


--Travis--
 
Raptor says
I am trying to help by simply giving advice and explaining what the simple situation would be.
Click to expand...
I understand Raptor, and I agree with you 100%. Offense neither taken nor intended.

I just feel so strongly that one should be very careful about seeking advice, legal or otherwise, about such loaded situations in the wrong place, and from what I have observed on this forum it often is indeed the wrong place. I see so many cases of the advice here being "Ready, fire, aim," that I am tempted to step in when I probably should not. I will try to restrain myself, but when a situation could lead to grave bodily harm, or worse, it is hard to restrain myself.
 
Tell him to call the police and report the harrassing phone calls.

Have him document every call he gets. The time and details of what was said. Record the calls on tape if ppssible.

Tell him to buy his own gun. Everyone should own at least one gun for self defense.

Tell the owner what's going on. It's none of her ex-boyfriends business what company assets he take home as long as he's authorized by the owner to do so.

If the harrassing calls continue, tell him to go to a judge and get a restraining order. Then if the calls continue, nutjob will find himself in jail.
 
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