Self defense while getting gas

[Dr T]

After some thought, I have decided that the most risky situation in which I find myself on a regular basis is the simple chore of getting gas. To the point, recently someone attempted to car jack a woman (mother with young child) at a gas pump at a local supermarket at 5:30 pm on a weekday. This location was in an upper middle class neighborhood and there were lots of people around--generally a safe bet for conflict avoidance. But, nevertheless, it happens.

In my situation, I am now in my seventh decade and recovering from a severely fractured femor. I am learning how to walk again. While it is getting better, I am using a cane.

In order to defend myself in this scenario, my approach is to be careful in my selection of places to stop (the best defense is conflict avoidance). But, as noted above, this does not always work.

My potential means of defense are my cane (a LEKI Wanderfreund) and a NAA Black Widow. The cane is important since it can be a formidable weapon as well as a means of distraction. Back when I was learning karate, I spent some time with my instructor learning to use a staff, cane, and shepards crook as a weapon. You really do not want to get punched in the wrong place with the tip of a cane.

But situations can be fluid. I keep the Black Widow in a front pocket holster. It is practically invisible to a casual (or not so casual) visual inspection, it is comfortable to carry, and easy and fast to draw, point, and cock. Since I learned to shoot instinctively a long time ago, it will be adequately accurate at the ranges I anticipate if it is necessary to fire.

No, I do not feel that I am under gunned. I am not out to start or fight a war. However, I think that is will certainly tip the balance in my favor.

Thoughts?

 

[Blue Jays]

This motorist spraying carjackers with gasoline drives the point of situational awareness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcntnnw1TXI

 

[FL-NC]

I take a minute to do a good 360 check around the area before I put my face in my wallet and start going through the routine. Also I look around while I am going through the routine. While the gas is getting pumped (with the valve locked open) my back is against the pump and I'm looking around, until I hang it up and get in and roll. While all this is going on, if a hard luck story walks up to me I look him/her dead in the eye and say NO before he/she can get a word out. In addition to what is on my body, I have access to a toxic chemical (at $4+ a gallon) once I have played the game at the pump. No one wants a face full of that. Lots of meth heads and the like hang out at gas stations- esp. the ones near interstate exits and major highways. The ones out in the country near me, not so much. They get run off pretty quick.

 

[CodeSection]

I was not familiar with the NAA Black Widow so I just watched a couple of YouTube videos. Personally, I would not even carry it as a BUG. For me, on all my pistols or revolvers, I just want to pull them out and pull the trigger and have it go bang. With the NAA Black Widow, you have a two-step process, cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger. In my mind, having to perform that extra step in a very stressful situation may get you killed. For me, KISS.

In the videos with NAA Black Widow, the shooter at some point had the cylinder freeze which did not give me any confidence. Reloading the NAA Black Widow in a stressful situation is non-existent. Also, situations with multiple attackers as shown in the video above, as well as in the news all too frequently, would make me rule out the NAA Black Widow. YMMV

I carry the P365 with a 12-round magazine as my BUG.

 

[Kleanbore]

This motorist spraying carjackers with gasoline drives the point of situational awareness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcntnnw1TXI

That just might be one's last act on Earth, and if not, it is very doubtful that is would pass the reasonableness test.

I take a minute to do a good 360 check around the area before I put my face in my wallet and start going through the routine. Also I look around while I am going through the routine. While the gas is getting pumped (with the valve locked open) my back is against the pump and I'm looking around, until I hang it up and get in and roll. While all this is going on, if a hard luck story walks up to me I look him/her dead in the eye and say NO before he/she can get a word out. In addition to what is on my body,

Yep.

With the NAA Black Widow, you have a two-step process, cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger. In my mind, having to perform that extra step in a very stressful situation may get you killed.

I would not plan on having the time to use it.

 

[Blue Jays]

"…That just might be one's last act on Earth, and if not, it is very doubtful that is would pass the reasonableness test…"

Exactly! They sure would regret robbing a person to be their very last act here on this Earth.
It was indeed unreasonable for the violent men to surround the innocent motorist and seek to injure/kill him while refueling his car.

 

[Kleanbore]

Exactly! They sure would regret robbing a person to be their very last act here on this Earth.
It was indeed unreasonable for the violent men to surround the innocent motorist and seek to injure/kill him while refueling his car.

You have it backwards, and it's not funny.

Spraying gasoline would put the sprayer, the entire facility, and everyone around in extreme risk, and it would most certainly fail to meet the requirements of lawful self defense.

 

[Tilos]

"Thoughts?"
Buy gas at a full-service station.
That, or honk your horn at any self-service station until an attendant comes out to pump your gas.
The law requires it, for the handicapped...
Stay in your car.
jmo,
.

 

[Jeff White]

Spraying gasoline would put the sprayer, the entire facility, and everyone around in extreme risk, and it would most certainly fail to meet the requirements of lawful self defense.

Yeah, but it looks cool in the movies............... In the movies they don't use real gasoline. The fumes are what ignites, so there is a good chance our hero will go up in flames too.

 

[Kleanbore]

I agree with the OP that getting gas can put one in a risky situation. Location, time of day, choice of pump, and alertness are key.

It's a good idea to not let the level get too low, in case "Last Chance Gas' does not look inviting.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The gas pump scenario isn't new, of course. I remember once posting a story about a brother of mine on THR, and almost right away someone here popped up with something like (paraphrasing) "Why did your brother CHOOSE to get gas in an area he KNEW to be dangerous?"

And that's a very valid question, because as the OP said: "the best defense is conflict avoidance".

While a violent attack can take place at literally any time and any location, the plain fact of the matter is that we can make intelligent choices about the when and where we choose to be in the first place. We may still become a victim, but we will at least make it more difficult to be so, and perhaps increase our survival chances and the chances the attacker will be caught afterwards.

Rarely am I in a condition were I absolutely MUST stop at the first available gas station I find (my wife and her vehicle not withstanding). I generally start looking for a place to stop long before I get to the point where it's critical. I have plenty of time to choose among many places and times.

While at a gas pump, the thing I find MOST annoying and distracting are those pumps which have advertisement videos playing...WITH audio, and loud at that. If I know of a place like that, they are low on my list of choices. If I find myself at one, I make it even MORE of a point to ignore those ads and pay MORE attention to my surroundings.

I likewise try to avoid places which I know have removed their pump latches. I like to get things started, then free up my hands so I can maneuver around better. Standing in one spot with my hand required to be on the pump continuously is not to my liking. (Yes, I've used my gas cap to keep the pump going in some of those places. One place didn't like it when they noticed and cut my pump off. So I left with the 5 or so gallons I had gotten there and went someplace else.)

I do a lot of traveling on the road, and by it's nature a significant portion occurs at night. Making sure I don't screw myself on reserve gas before I fill up is key, because it gives me a great many more opportunities to find the better places to fill up.

 

[camsdaddy]

I assess the situation. I fill up before it is a necessity. I get out and leave my door open and try to park so that my open door meets the trashcan or the barrier. I insert the nozzle then reach for my wallet and begin the process. I get my hand in my pocket as soon as possible and have it on my J frame while I continue to be aware of my surroundings. When Im done I get in and go

 

[Tilos]

OOPS! already posted
Sorry for the echo

Victim sprays car jackers with gas:
(11) Crafty Defender Uses Gas Pump To Defend Against Robbers - YouTube
calm down, it's diesel...

.

 

[TransAmConvert]

Dog.

When my daughter was a baby and in the back seat a very nice, but stupid, woman almost lost a few fingers trying to pet my very lovable looking dog through an open window at the pump while I was checking my tires and didn't notice.
Once she calmed down she understood that while he looks cuddly he has a job to do.

 

[flightsimmer]

This motorist spraying carjackers with gasoline drives the point of situational awareness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcntnnw1TXI

I loved seeing that video. At the least they would have had to ditch their cloths immediately and take a shower, their skin would start burning and the skin would start peeling off. Can you imagine if it had caught fire. And if it got in there eyes they would be blinded. I would like to have seen the out come.

 

[Hugger-4641]

You have it backwards, and it's not funny.

Spraying gasoline would put the sprayer, the entire facility, and everyone around in extreme risk, and it would most certainly fail to meet the requirements of lawful self defense.

I don’t know about that.
I think "disparity of force "
would definitely be in play when suddenly facing multiple attacker. And, spraying them with gasoline was definitely less lethal and risky to innocent bystanders than opening fire with your Glock would be.

 

[rg1]

First lock all your car doors except your drivers door. Car jackers can wait until you start getting in then open the passenger door and stick a gun in your face! They often work in pairs coming at you from different directions. Your choice of carry could be better.

 

[ms6852]

I purchased a cane for times that I am not armed because I am in a federal building or on a military base it is hickory and can put a world of hurt if confronted of course it is only good if it is only one or two guys which I can handle but if it becomes necessary I carry a .357 revolver should the need ever arise.

The best deterrent is situational awareness and if anyone gets offended I don't care, but guys you have to learn to breathe without the use of a cell phone. That cell phone to the younger generation is akin to a baby sucking on a pacifier. That cell phone will be the cause of you getting attacked before you ever realize what happened.

 

[The Night Rider]

That just might be one's last act on Earth, and if not, it is very doubtful that is would pass the reasonableness test.

So might reaching for a gun.

I've heard several stories and seen multiple YouTube videos of people using a gas pump for self defense. Never heard of any one being charged.

 

[The Night Rider]

After some thought, I have decided that the most risky situation in which I find myself on a regular basis is the simple chore of getting gas. To the point, recently someone attempted to car jack a woman (mother with young child) at a gas pump at a local supermarket at 5:30 pm on a weekday. This location was in an upper middle class neighborhood and there were lots of people around--generally a safe bet for conflict avoidance. But, nevertheless, it happens.

In my situation, I am now in my seventh decade and recovering from a severely fractured femor. I am learning how to walk again. While it is getting better, I am using a cane.

In order to defend myself in this scenario, my approach is to be careful in my selection of places to stop (the best defense is conflict avoidance). But, as noted above, this does not always work.

My potential means of defense are my cane (a LEKI Wanderfreund) and a NAA Black Widow.

And that's where you lost me

Most of the good answers have already been given.

We get gas at a quarter tank, that gives us time and time gives us options. I like Shell gas, that's irrelevant except that there is a Shell station right across the street from my former employer. It's off the main drag in a "better" neighborhood I used to stop there on my way home in the morning.

Now I normally get gas on my way home from the gym in the mid morning. I park at the pump farthest from the store, positioned so I can drive straight out of the lot.I lock my doors and move away from between the pump and car.

I haven't been approached by anyone at a gas station since before I retired. As mentioned previously, I saw him coming and said "Can't help you Bro." before he even opened his mouth. He tried to guilt me for talking to him like that and I said "I've got no business with you walk TF away." and he did.

 

[shafter]

This motorist spraying carjackers with gasoline drives the point of situational awareness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcntnnw1TXI

Spraying gasoline is a horrible idea. So many ways that can go wrong.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Spraying gasoline is a horrible idea. So many ways that can go wrong.

It's a lot better idea than standing there and getting attacked or spraying bullets.

 

[Obturation]

A couple months ago I had a run in at the gas pump. It was still cold so I sat in my van as the gas pumped, I was alone. A dirty crazed looking guy came up to my passenger side window and looked in . he was asking me to roll down the window so I put it down an inch , he tried to open the door but it was locked. He claimed he was just looking for his girlfriend and thought she might be in there some how . I told him to get moving, he pulled the door handle again so I raised my voice and let him know if he didn't move along I'd help him move along- just like that.

Not a huge threat but who knows. I'm not a super intimidating looking guy but I am a 37 year old, 6'1" fit guy of about 190# and I'm always armed. Kind of an odd choice for a target of opportunity but the guy seemed whacked out. He left and I went in to tell the attendant (who I see all the time) that this guy was wandering around out there and he was sketchy.

This is in a decent area with low crime and few if any homeless folks in a semi-rural far Chicago suburb (70 miles or so from the city). I wasn't scared but the situation made me uneasy and it made me think of my wife and how she would deal with something like that as she's small, timid and refuses to arm herself . puts things in perspective and helped me remember to always be on guard for the unexpected .

Keep an eye out there folks, never know when or where something unexpected may happen.

 

[Zerodefect]

In cities, I've already seen this a few times:

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

There was a guy at the Walmart gas station. He was holding a small gas can. He asked me if i could some gas in it. He claimed he ran out of gas. And his car is up the road. Ok so maybe it is. But there is gas stations along the way in both directions. I told him no i can't help you. I kept my eye on him until i was done getting my gas.