Self defense without a firearm

[twoblink]

I had a little "incident" just right now at the supermarket...

I usually carry my knife but didn't because I thought I was just running to the market.. What a mistake.

I was asking for something, and a punk kid with a bad attitude gave me everything short of the middle finger as far as attitude. I went to talk to a manager, who called him over, and he gave her a threatening attitude, and so when his manager came, he was promptly fired..

What gets me all wrinkled up is not so much the punk kid, but the fact that they always have the "What, you wanna fight?" attitude and stare and gestures.. I weigh about 150lbs, but I am hard pressed to find a punk kid in the super market who's butt I couldn't kick from here to China..

I can defend myself, hand-to-hand, with a knife, gun, pole etc.. I'm fairly proficient in fighting, I think that's why I don't ever want to fight.

Now, if that's true, does that mean all these wanna be punk kids can't fight and that's why they are trying to make up for it with their attitude?

I'm fairly curious what to do when there is a mild threat, but definitely not something to warrants reaction on my part.... ??

I can feel the threat escalation, but it's not so much where you need to whip out the knife and or gun.. I always elect to walk away, but is my back turned to these thugs a good idea?

 

[JShirley]

Keep your cool, and your distance. If you have both distance and skill, combined with awareness, you're golden.

As your skill increases, you will no longer draw attitude from types like this. You are in the uncomfortable "middle" stage where the lower predators recognize you. As you go up the scale, you won't even be noticed by the people further down, and the people who do recognize what you are will rarely wish to cross swords with you.

John

 

[brownie0486]

John,

Thats an excellent observation. Agree with that thought process 100%.

As to the punks today like who you ran into with the attitude and want to fight. They are for the most part untrained, testosterone filled, naieve, with little in the way of training. They have learned they can intimidate most people with their mouth and supposed readiness to do battle.

Just 2 months ago, the neighbors kid [ 21 and 6'2" ] finally asked me to perform a sexual act on him from his driveway after I had taken pics of him for evidence the PD could use relative his crap on the street bikes [ he thinks he is a stunter ], no helmet, no registration, no plate, no insurance, etc.

Once he saw me documenting his illegal actions so I could have him arrested, he made the gesture and remark about the sexual act from his driveway to mine.

I walked calmly to him after putting the camera down on my stone wall and grabbed him by the throat, asking him to say it again [ of course he couldn't without air ].

Momma came outside and told me to let him go. I told her to go back in the house and call the cops or have another drink. She did. I let him go telling him he may talk to his parents that way but if he ever said anything like that to me again he'd be cold in the ground. He understood at that point I was not intimidated like his parents who he has threatened with burning the house down several times when they have tried to control his crap.

I go back home. Two cruisers in the yard within 5 minutes [ they know my address, used to work with them ]. Asked what happened, I told them both the truth, to which the older sgt. explained I'd have to go downtown and I knew better [ think he was attempting to give me an opportunity to deny and then make it a he said/she said type situation so no one had to go downtown ].

I explained he had asked me to perform the sexual act which was of course and invitation to put my hands on him physically. He may not have liked the way I was attempting to meet his request, but the fact was he asked me to touch him physically.

The Sgt. laughed, said he'd be right back. Went over to the neighbors and explained they better keep him under control, they had too many dealing with him and the neighbors complaining about his actions in the neighborhood and that now I was involved and the situation had gone physical, it might just be a good idea to keep him out of my face before something did happen where they didn't have a number one son.

The kid knows I'm not afraid of him. When I grabbed him, he froze instead of being a tough guy. Deep in their hearts, many of them know that if they are called on their crap they have no way to back up their words or attempts to intimidate others. I'm 53 this year, he's 21 and has 4 inches on me in height. He still knew better than to go to fists with me. He's a wus of the tallest order, many of them are but are also accustomed to their intimidation working with an older crowd so they get away with it most of the time.

I got lucky I didn't get charged, should have known better really than to grab him. It's been 7 years with his crap in the neighborhood and now that the above has ocurred, he has been a different person in the area. Quiet, and thats all I want to hear from him from now on.

His dad stopped by [ momma called him home from work as well when she called the cops ] while the cruisers werestill in my yard getting ready to secure and leave the area. Dad was informed by the officers that he had better take more control of his son before they were responding one day to a bloodbath and he no longer had the number one son around. Yes, I'd go to prison, he'd be out the son though.

I told him in front of the cops to keep him out of my face from now on, I was done having to deal with the crap from him and it was going to get ugly the next time I had dealings with him.


They of course used to see the cruiser in my yard and know I worked with the "boys" in town for years. They also know from my workign out on the lawn that I'll complete the task of taking him out if I lose it without losing a drop of sweat over him.

He's no tuffy, but every person in the neighborhood is very intimidated by his threats if they call the cops on him. It's been very quiet in the hood since then, he gives me dirty looks when passing me in the opposite direction on the street in cars, I just smile that smile and mind my own business. Dirty looks are no big deal, we both know he's a no man in mans body at this point.

Brownie

 

[Penforhire]

Wow, Brownie I never would have guessed that you'd let him get to you like that. You certainly resolved the situation but, in hindsight, do you still think contact was necessary? If he hadn't punked out and you ended up harming him would you be the "good guy" since you walked up to him?

I've had conflicts with people like that in my neighborhood, like when a bad parent let their x year-old and his tiny friends go-kart around the neighborhood. every day. I still have visions of that kart stuffed under my bumper when I come around a corner. Never happened but he was mighty upset after he didn't listen to my safety suggestions and reported the activity to the cops. Dad had some choice words for me but it never occurred to me to escalate any verbal confrontation.

Same deal for disrespectful kids in the neighborhood. As long as they don't get physical then neither will I. I know I am not changing their behavior but am I wrong?

 

[brownie0486]

Penforhire: I was wrong to grab him, and as you wrote, let him get to me.

He has always steered clear of me as he knows the deal [ unlike the neighbors I have ]. That day he pushed and I pushed back after years of his antics and threats around the neighborhood.

Like I initially posted, I got lucky I was not arrested where I would have lost the PI license, gun permits, bond, the job I have presently, etc. It would have changed my life forever by losing the control I usually have in these types of situations.

If he had made a move, I would have only set him on his ass gently, I did have control of him pretty good. I was squeezing hard enough so he knew enough not to play around and jerk away without serious injury.

Funny thing is, I was talking very softly, actually almost whispering, not excited at all while I had ahold of him. Calm on the outside and fire burning hard internally I guess.

I got lucky, for that I am grateful. He got lucky, for that he is not grateful and has only a hint of what could have actually ocurred if I had lost it completely. If he had made any other remark, my defense would have been weak and I'd have gone downtown for sure. I'd have been the agressor in any court action.

It's been years since I've had to react like that as a civilian [ get physical ]. Hope it never happens again, I have too much to lose at this point in my life.

Brownie

 

[MrAcheson]

Now, if that's true, does that mean all these wanna be punk kids can't fight and that's why they are trying to make up for it with their attitude?

In general yes thats exactly what it means. Most of these "tough" kids are all talk. I remember watching two skaters trying to out "tough" each other. It was plain to see that neither of them had the balls for a fight, but they were both doing the shirt un-tucking, strutting, yelling, I'm-so-tough dance. I started laughing at them. Finally a bunch of truckers driving by started taunting them for being spineless little boys and the "fight" broke up.

 

[twoblink]

I'm a lot better now, then I was before...

I think the difficulty comes when my gf is with me. Not so much a "macho" thing, but it's difficult to take care of me and her at the same time if the numbers are stacked against me.

When I'm out with my Judo friends, we just walk and don't think too much about it..

But DEEP in the back of my mind.. comes creeping in the thought:

"Somebody needs to teach that punk a lesson, and I elect me!!"

The other problem is, I have great holds and submission wrestling techniques, but I would hate to have to go punches and kickes because then I will do some irreversable damage that I and he might later regret..

And another problem on top of that, it's difficult to fight someone who's got nothing to lose.. When you have your life, future, girlfriend at stake, and the little punk isn't worth the chump change, it's an unfair fight because even if you win, you lose, always..

<sigh>

I pretty much was going to say to him, "Wanna fight? Let's do it so I can go home and get some dessert...":banghead:

 

[JShirley]

it's difficult to fight someone who's got nothing to lose.. When you have your life, future, girlfriend at stake, and the little punk isn't worth the chump change, it's an unfair fight because even if you win, you lose, always..

Yup. I learned, years ago in a class- one of my Sociology classes, maybe- that how much one has "invested" in life has a corrolation with how quickly one is willing to risk that life...

Winning is going home to your family. Being willing to suffer humiliation, if necessary, is NOTHING compared to the safety of your family, and ultimately, your own safety. One, of course, also has to weigh future potential occurrence of threat: knowing when to "bump back".

John

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Now, if that's true, does that mean all these wanna be punk kids can't fight and that's why they are trying to make up for it with their attitude?

Usually. And they have no idea how badly you can get hurt in a little scuffle, even without weapons.

 

[45R]

The ultimate weapon is your brain and knowing when to walk away from a situation. John said it best!