Sell Colt for S&W?

[chaim]

I am thinking about replacing a Colt Police Positive Special with a S&W M10, M14 or M15. I know, never sell, only add to the collection but I think there are truely better options for me. First, when I got it I was more of a SA trigger fan than DA figuring on cocking most of the time. Well, now that I have a gun with a great DA trigger I can appreciate a good DA trigger and actually prefer a good DA pull in a wheelgun. The PPS is old enough that it is very hard to find parts or people to work on it so getting it modified isn't really an option. I have found in general that I do strongly prefer S&W revolvers to Colts, especially the DA pull.

Now I'm not saying I won't have another Colt but I see a few reasons to replace this one. I can't find a source for grips that will fit (I bought some that I was told would and they don't, I did find some old beat up grips at a show that were far overpriced) and I hate the grips that are currently on this one (I could see buying one with nice wood grips if I saw one later at a good price). I can see some advantages for the PPS, it is very light (basically it is a small framed revolver) yet has a 4" barrel and 6 shots so it would be great for carry. However, when in a CCW state I've decided that a 3" K will be my revolver for that purpose (esp. since there are few parts for PPSs anymore should anything break). I might someday try some of the newer models where one can still find people to work on it, then immediately send it out for DA trigger work.

I didn't pay much for this gun, I got a great deal especially considering prices around here (it is perfect mechanically, the finish is decent and some people actually prefer pachmayr presenation grips- I paid $175). Looking at prices around here I could easily get what i paid for it, and possibly more, if sold on consignment (that is I could net as much or more after the fee) and I may be able to break even selling outright to a dealer.

I would far prefer an older model S&W .38, especially one with a trigger job, over this (or any) Colt. I'd probably go blued but a stainless 64 would be nice too (a 3" 64 would be a very nice complement to my 65LS).

I have really developed a fondness for S&W revolvers (I have a 65LS, a 6" 586 and I take delivery soon of an older M19). The quality, especially on older ones, is top notch. The triggers can be incredible (some from the factory, all can clean up w/ work wonderfully). A .38 to go w/ my .357s would be great.

So, given what little I've told you here would you consider breaking the "don't sell" chorus and sell this one for something more suited to my tastes if you were me?

What kind of prices do these go for in your area (I know what they usually go for here having seen a few lately but I'm curious about their value elsewhere)?

Edit: I suppose I should be more specific on "what are prices in your area" than I was. I originally meant on the Colt, but upon thinking it over I'm curious about both Colt and S&W prices elsewhere.

 

[Old Fuff]

I own both – and like them both for different reasons. However in your case I’d try to find an S&W Military & Police (sometimes called the “1905 Hand Ejector) made between the mid-1930’s through 1946. These had what was called the “long action†which is reputed to be the finest, smoothest double-action ever made. Repair parts are available and many current parts still fit. When combined with a Wolff spring kit the trigger pull will bring tears to your eyes. I’m not sure about prices where you live, but in most places a M&P in a condition similar to the Colt you have would cost around $250.00, and possibly less. If you want something more modern look for a relatively inexpensive model 15 police trade-in.

 

[10-Ring]

I would keep the Colt until I found a gun that worked better, then if you decide to sell the Colt, sell it. There's no point in selling a gun to find a better option only to discover later you had the best option to being with.

 

[chaim]

I would keep the Colt until I found a gun that worked better, then if you decide to sell the Colt, sell it. There's no point in selling a gun to find a better option only to discover later you had the best option to being with.

If I go used, as I surely would, that could be a consideration. I'd hate to sell a perfectly reliable gun to buy a lemon. However, as far as type I own a K-frame 65 now and I'm getting another in a few days when the waiting period is up (a M19-4). I do know I prefer S&Ws generally and in this general catagory the K frame specifically. I far prefer the Smith DA pull to the Colt DA pull (and I am currently going through a "thing" for a nice DA pull). While I may be able to get some Colts cleaned up, the PPS has been out of production long enough that there aren't parts and not many people work on them anymore, so a trigger job isn't really an option. I also far prefer the S&W cylinder release, especially should I need to reload in a defensive situation. Actually, at this price range a new Taurus would mostly take care of the reliable gun for possible lemon gamble and I'd also prefer a Taurus to this gun (and I've owned a K-frame equivelent Taurus 82 before so I do know them)- better out of the box trigger, there are smiths out there who work on them (so trigger could be further worked on), parts and grips are available, S&W style cylinder release.

The one thing that is nice about this Colt though is its size and weight- it is about halfway between the Smith K and J frames, probably a bit closer to the J, yet it has a 4" barrel and six shots like a K-frame at about 10oz lighter. It would be a perfect gun as a base gun for a smith to cut on for the perfect carry revolver, except it loses its great advantage since it is so long out of production that there aren't parts (should something break) and no one (so it seems) works on them anymore. If Colt would bring this gun back out though it would be a near perfect starting platform for a carry revolver.

 

[355sigfan]

. There's no point in selling a gun to find a better option only to discover later you had the best option to being with.
END

Dope!! I have done this lots of times.
PAT

 

[Standing Wolf]

If Colt would bring this gun back out though it would be a near perfect starting platform for a carry revolver.

That'll happen right after is snows in Miami on Independence Day.

 

[chaim]

Standing Wolf,

I know. I don't think that they'll ever produce another regular production revolver again (the custom shop guns, like the current Python don't count).

 

[CMcDermott]

The Detective Special model Colt's were made on this same frame for many years, snub-nosed revolvers perfect for CCW carry.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Just FYI - - -

chaim, you make much of the parts replacement issues, and the Police Positive Special being out of print for several years. The same frame and action were in production for many years. Depending on the parts you break or lose, you might well be able to locate them fairly easily through Gun Parts Corp, or from numerous old Colt repair facilities. Many large gunsmithing concerns purchase parts stripped off guns under court-ordered destruction orders. (I know, it makes me sick, too, but . . . .)

If it is a quesiton of a cylinder lock bolt or a hand or some spring, you could probably use the equivalent part from a Police Positive (NOT the PPSpecial,) the Diamondback, Detective Special, Agent, Courier, Cobra, or Bankers Special.

I'm in the market for a round butt Police Positive Special or a three-inch Detective Special right now. If I find one in good shape for a reasonable price, I will not allow the discontinued status stop me from buying and shooting it. (A lack of funds, now - - -THAT might stop me.)

Just curious - - - The PPS is a smaller, lighter, piece than any K frame S&W, except possibly for length. I'd think it would be a superior concealed carry piece. If you wish to go smaller still, though, have you considered a 3" barrel Chiefs Special?

Whatever your choice, good luck to you.
Johnny

Best,
Johnny

 

[Poohgyrr]

Did you say you have a M65LS?? I have one.

That is a great carry revolver, I'd load it and be happy. Do what you want with the Colt. I think you can send it to some of the custom grip people for grips, but this usually costs a bit more.

 

[chaim]

Did you say you have a M65LS?? I have one.

That is a great carry revolver, I'd load it and be happy.

Well, it would be a decent carry gun out of the box, and it has helped me determine exactly what I want when I get to a carry state, but after much thought I have decided I want some modifications on whatever gun I will carry (when I get to a carry state of course) and I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to getting this beautiful gun cut on (well, I could get another 65LS as the base gun, it is just that this one was my first .357mag so I won't have THIS one cut on). The trigger job I'd want I'd have no problem having done w/ my current gun but there are a few changes that would affect the cosmetics (and some perminant) that I wouldn't want done w/ my current gun. I want shorter grips (Secret Service boot grips) and a bobbed hammer spur along with a DAO conversion at minimum. I also would like a front sight dot or bead milled on and I am considering having a "melted" treatment done to the carry revolver.

So my love of the 3" revolver and the handy, concealable yet very easy to shoot nature of my 65LS has strongly influenced my thinking. However, there are just a few additions I'd want.

all, RE the Colt
Well, I do like this gun. However, the PPS must be just a bit different from the Detective Special which is supposed to be the same frame. I've found grips for the DS don't fit and I'm told some other parts don't either. Did they modify the frame in later models? Also, it seems that few smiths work on the PPS though they work on newer models (incl. the DS).

I will consider buying other Colts in the future. The Police Positive (not PPS) in .38S&W (not special) for interest/history/novelty. The practical Colts I'd consider would only be newer guns that still have smiths who will work on them (I HATE the Colt DA pull so it would absolutely have to have smiths willing to fix the trigger for me).

The DS and related models (with a trigger job) does seem to me that they would be just about the perfect small snubs. For range use I wouldn't mind a .357mag Trooper or .38spl Official Police (or similar) both w/ trigger jobs (of course) or even a Python should I have the money and see a good deal. But, my current gun just doesn't do it for me.

Of course, if anyone can direct me to a smith that can do a good trigger job on it and someone who may do something about the grips for me you may just save the gun from the gunshop.

 

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

You had better hold on to that Police Positive Special!

Ask, and you shall receive! Get ready, I'm laying it on thick. Ahem...[cue overzealous fanboy voice.)

Police Positive Specials are a lot closer to J-frame size than K-frame size. K-frames weigh a lot more. D-frame colts use K-frame speedloaders, too.

Grips are available for any vintage Colt. I found combat-style grips (Used, factory I think.) for my 1921-vintage PPS at a gunshow for $20. Maybe some intensive searching could find some online? There's a couple of places doing replicas, plus all the grip houses. Prowling the parts-bin guys at the shows always paid off for me.

Bonus links:

Pistolgrips.com, reference section, re: Colts.
Ajax.
Hogue, D-frames.
HangunGrips.com
Poppert's Gun Parts.
Pachmayr.
Eagle grips.
Barami Hipgrip.
Herret's.

There were a lot of PPS's built. Parts should not be a concern. Mine's 80 years old and going strong. Not much bluing left, but it only cost me $125, and it shoots 158-grain standard-pressure LSWC's right to point of aim. At $20 for a bag of 250, I can practice with this gun a lot inexpensively even though I don't reload.

D-frame Colts are known for fine trigger pulls. Better than J-frames, even. My DA pull is very smooth and light, and the SA pull is amazing. Yours can be made so.

Colts also have a reputation for accuracy because of their solid lock-up at ignition. This causes premature wear in magnum guns like the Python, making them maintenance intensive. The .38's don't get battered as hard, so they don't share this issue.

Accurate Plating and Weaponry and Bob Cogan can perform any given service or upgrade you might require on your Colt. He did a competition/carry Police Positive Special for Mas Ayoob's daughter Cat a few years back that came out very slick. It had custom grips, hard chroming, night sights, (I think. Been awhile since I read about it.) and an integral compensator in the end of a stock barrel. She used it for a Second Chance shoot at least once, (With 158-grain +p's.) I believe, after the year that all of her dad's 1911's broke one after another during the match. She placed as the top-finishing female, (At 14 years old!) if I have the story straight. Yes, she can shoot like gangbusters, but so can her Cogan Police Positive.

If you contact 'em, ask Bob about Cat Ayoob's gun. Mas said he'd remember it in the article, as he enjoyed doing the job and was very pleased with the results.

So don't sell that little Colt until you talk to Bob Cogan. He can build it into an excellent gun for you, that could serve as a primary carry piece or a very slick, lightweight backup gun to your M-19. If you carry +p .38's around as reloads with .357's in the M-19, they can even share ammo and speedloaders. (Did I really write that? Whoa. I gotta read fewer gunrags. Civilians don't usually need BUG's, unless they're mall ninja's or something. Right? )

If a pencil-barrel K-38 weighs 10 ounces more than a PPS, How much more does a bull-barrel, 1/2-shroud M-19 weigh? I seem to recall that those S&W's have some heft to 'em, whereas the little Colts almost seem delicate...

Don't sell it! Good guns are prizes to be treasured when found, they don't happen often enough! Only accurate guns are interesting! You won't make any money on it, just lose! Yoouuu'lll beee sooorreeeee!...

 

[Old Fuff]

The Colt Detective Special was always built on the Police Positive Special frame, but as you suspect, changes were made on that frame over the years. Consequently parts and grips need to be of the style made in the same era as your gun. I believe your particular gun was originally equipped with black, hard rubber grips. (Post the serial number and I can tell you for sure.) Exact replacements for these are available for around $20.00. These were replaced with checkered walnut grips during the late 1920’s. During the late 1930’s Colt rounded the Detective Special’s butt but kept the square-butt on the Police Positive Special. However after World War Two they used the Detective Special’s rounded configuration on the Police Positive Special until the end of production.

Older Police Positive Special’s have heavy double actions because the primers in those days were not as sensitive as the ones we have now and Colt wanted to be sure they always went “bang!†The lockwork, while downsized, is identical to that used in the Python, and the actions can be modified to rival those found on a Smith & Wesson.

While these older Colts are fine guns, and can be made even finer by an experienced pistolsmith, the work is usually expensive and often costs more then the revolver itself. This is sort of like rebuilding or restoring a classic car, and only you can decide if it’s worth it or not.

Speaking for myself, I think it is. The Colt Police Positive/Detective Special line is lighter and slightly smaller then a S&W “K†frame and has a shorter butt – an important point when it comes to concealment. They are slightly larger then a S&W “J†frame, but the cylinder holds six rounds. If you use a IWB holster a Police Positive Special is as easy to hide as a Detective Special, but if you have to use it you have the advantage of a longer barrel. As I said before I own both makes of guns. Each has it’s own advantages and disadvantages, so I pick and choose on this basis.

 

[firestar]

DO IT! If you have to sell a gun to get another one that you want more, that is fine. I do it all the time and I am rarly dissapointed, it took a few years and a lot of trading but I finally figuired out some tricks to avoid mistakes and dissapointments.

First, don't EVER sell a gun to a dealer unless you have shopped around and found his offer to be fair (it never is). Sencond, allways replace one gun with a better gun (easier said than done but the trade you speak of meets that criteria perfectly, S&W 10, 14, 15 is far better than a Colt PPS). Third, be sure of what you want and why you want it or you just end up trading one gun that isn't perfect for you for another gun that is perfect for you. Forth, don't spend too much time looking back. I had a Colt PPS for a VERY short time because it was cheap but I got rid of it and I wouldn't pay more than $100 for another one.