Shooting Impressions-Colt DS and S&W Airweight

[rWt]

I shot both today at my local range. The Colt DS (3d issue) is mine and the S&W Airweight was a rental gun and had rubber grips. I am considering getting a Colt Cobra and wanted to shoot an aluminum framed gun to see what the recoil was like with +P loads. I consider myself to be a novice shooter with double action revolvers and I only shot in double action mode.

I shot 10 rounds from the Airweight into 1/2 the size group I had with 6 rounds from my Colt DS. The Colt, a recent purchase, has factory grips and a real hard/harsh trigger pull. I was really disappointed in my shooting with the Colt and favorably impressed by how well the S&W shot-even with +P versions of the FBI load.

Please tell me that the Colt's trigger can be significantly improved. If it can't, I will sell it. Aftermarket grips are a must also. It really helps to have something for the little finger to rest on.

Note: I also shot my S&W 65-3 with Crimson Trace grips. For some reason it's trigger is wonderful-to me anyway-a nice take-up pressure then crisp, clean break. The laser sighting is superb. I put 12 rounds of the +P FBI loads into 1/3 the size of the Airweight group. This gun and grip combination is a great winner, IMHO, especially with +P 38 Loads. I just wish it was smaller-but, then, it wouldn't shoot as well.

 

[jad0110]

Interesting observations.

I've never fired a Colt DS, at least that I can recall, but I've been able to dry fire a number of them. All had very smooth DA triggers, but they also had loads of stacking in the final 15% of the pull that I simply did not like. I think it is just the nature of these guns, but I could well be wrong as I don't own one. Either you are fine with the stacking or you aren't. The cylinder release is also quite literally backwards; I'm much more accustomed to doing speed reloads with S&W, Taurus and Ruger style cylinder releases.

But I still have great respect for the Colts, even if they don't "do it" for me.

If you know anyone that shoots Colts regularly, you could let them handle it for their honest opinion.

Otherwise, I'm sure some of THR's Colt DS afficianodos will be along shortly.

Note: I also shot my S&W 65-3 with Crimson Trace grips. For some reason it's trigger is wonderful-to me anyway-a nice take-up pressure then crisp, clean break. The laser sighting is superb. I put 12 rounds of the +P FBI loads into 1/3 the size of the Airweight group. This gun and grip combination is a great winner, IMHO, especially with +P 38 Loads. I just wish it was smaller-but, then, it wouldn't shoot as well.

Sounds just like all of my K-Frames, all of which have quite good DA triggers. Speaking of the size, I regurly carry a 2" and a 4" S&W Model 15, basically the same size as your 65-3. I carry them IWB using a FIST #20 IWB leather holster on a Beltman 1.5" bullhide belt, with very little difficulty. In fact, I find carrying K-Frames to be so easy with this combo that I'm tempted to try carring an N-Frame IWB, just to see if it is doable.

I consider myself to be a novice shooter with double action revolvers and I only shot in double action mode.

You would be in the minority in that regard; good for you!

 

[rklessdriver]

A few things. COLT and Smith DA revolvers have completely different triggers. 3rd edition COLT D frames are notorious for terrible trigger pulls that stack well over 10-12lbs before they break.

Yes your COLT's trigger can be improved but it will probally always be a "COLT trigger" that starts out easy and stacks a little right before the sear break... Really good smiths can make this almost impreceptible but only almost.

The grips can be fixed as well and the stock 3rd edition D Frame grips absolutely SUCK IMO. I have a 1972 (3rd edition) COLT Cobra, I put Houge wood finger grooves on mine and very much like them. Kinda big for pocket carry but perfect for IWB. Here it is:



When I bought it it the trigger was absolutely horrid. I also own a 1959 Cobra that has one of the sweetest triggers I have ever felt on a COLT DA, so I just couldn't understand how my 1972 was so freaking bad. I started looking for a smith to fix it for me. I found that COLT DA revolver qualified gunsmiths are few and far between these days.

That was until High Road member "Matt Almeda" offered his services. He gave me a finish date and an estimated price. He called me a few days before it was soposed to be done to tell me it was ready and the bill due was right on target as well. When I came to pick it up he even took me to his bench and showed me what was wrong with the main spring in my Cobra - causing the trigger to be so bad... Let me say that it now has THE sweetest trigger of any COLT DA I have ever felt and I own more than just the 2 Cobra's...

Since then Matt has also built a custom Smith M15 for "us" that turned out perfect (it's my GF's favorite pistol infact).

Matt is a first class gunsmith that I highly recommend to fix your COLT. I really can't say enough good things about the work Matt has done for us.

http://www.revolverarmorer.com/

Give him a call and tell him I sent you.
Will

 

[doc540]

I own, carry, and shoot both D frame and J frames

Trigger work on all of them.

My hands fit the Agent best, especially with Jim Badger's custom grips


Gary Dean does my trigger work, and the D frame triggers turn out the best after he gets his hands on them. He prefers to work on the Smith's, but agrees the Colt triggers are superior after they get massaged a bit.

YMMV

 

[owlhoot]

I'm a Colt fan, I have 20 of them, one of which is a Cobra. I also have several J frame S&W's. The Cobra is the worst shooter that I own. One of the J frames isn't much better. But the other J's will shoot rings around the Cobra. It is not the Cobra trigger that is responsible because the gun won't shoot in single action either. I like the "feel" of the Cobra. I like having 6 shots, and I like the looks. But the gun was long ago relegated to safe queen status. I need to KNOW that if I do my part, my gun can do its part. My Cobra can't. This is not to imply that all Cobras and DS's suffer from the same malady. But my gun is proof that not all Cobras are gold. Yours may fit in the same category.

 

[9mmepiphany]

it has been my experience that the trigger on a Colt D-frame, when properly tuned, would rival any S&W K-frame. the J-frame isn't even in the same ballpark.

the other nice thing about the D-frame is that it uses the same speedloader as the K-frame

 

[Trebor]

I'm in SE Michigan as well.

If you are interested I have a steel framed Model 49 S&W Bodyguard you can try. The difference in feel and shootability between the aluminium and steel J Frames is noticeable. We can meet up at a local range if you want to try it side by side with your Colt and possibly a rental J frame.

What barrel length is your Model 65? I assume it's a full length 4" barrel. The reason I ask is my carry gun is a Model 65 with a 3" barrel. You wouldn't think that a one inch smaller barrel would make a difference, but it does. I can't carry a 4" K Frame comfortably, but the 3" K frame works very well in a IWB holster

The K frame is still too big for pocket carry, even at 3", but that's what the J Frame is for.

Also, if you decide to sell the Colt, I may be interested. Another reason to meet up at a range if you're game.

 

[snooperman]

I am a Colt fan too and...

have been carrying my DS for about 37 years and the trigger is as nice as any revolver I have shot. You can improve the trigger on yours. I like the six shot Colt DS because it is a little larger and heavier than the Airweight S&W J frames and I have better control for a faster follow-up shot. The extra shot is a big plus too.

 

[9mmepiphany]

i've found that the main advantage to shooting accurately with the Colt D-frame over the S&W J-frame, besides the obvious leaf spring powered action, is that the D-frame has a longer hammer travel. it seems to help steady the gun during the trigger stroke

 

[420Stainless]

My 2nd generation DS has a smoother trigger in both single and double action than any other revolver I own. I bought it in well used condition, so I have no idea if the trigger has been worked over or not. However, my Police Positive Special's trigger feels very similar. Like others have suggested, maybe the construction makes individuals favor one over the other.

 

[Billy Shears]

Colts are notorious for their stacking DA pulls, but the stacking can be reduced at the expense of the single action pull. It can be almost entirely eliminated if you are willing to dispense with SA entirely and have a DAO revolver (which is probably no handicap at all in a snubby really). If you want to keep single action capability, and have a light SA pull, there will be some stacking left with the Colt revolver's trigger geometry, but a good gunsmith can tune it so that you have a very smooth trigger that will probably feel lighter than you think. Colt's quality control has varied over the years, and you may have a revolver from a time when it wasn't of the best. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the gun's basic design.

Before you sell the Colt, remember, the Python had basically similar lockwork, just more finely put together, and people are usually impressed with the smoothness of the Python's trigger (though it does feature a long hammer fall and Colt's trademark stacking). There's no reason why your Detective Special can't be given a very good trigger, if you get a good gunsmith to work it over.

But if you insist on getting rid of the gun, I for one would be perfectly happy to take it off your hands.

 

[rWt]

I hope to buy an older Cobra very soon. Then off to the range to shoot everything. Trying to figure out if a wheel gun makes sense for me for concealed carry purposes.

 

[Guillermo]

the DS is a piece of dog squeeze

PM me and I might take it off your hands

 

[rWt]

Guillermo,

I'll trade it for a pair of Lee Miller's custom boots.

 

[S&Wfan]

I've always preferred the S&W revolver trigger pulls. Years of practice, use and competitions make them second nature to me now.

Thus, I prefer my J-frames over my Colt Agent (the aluminum framed D.S.) model. Additionally, Colts go out of time after a while and they are hard to get worked on.

My Agent always stays in the safe.

If I want to tote that fat a cylinder (6 rounds), I'll wear either my 2 1/2" barreled M19 or my 3" Model 65 . . . and stoke these with either 158gn. LSWC-HP +P in .38 Spl., or Federal 125gn. HyraShoks in .357.

However, my always gun is a M37 Airweight in a pocket holster . . . and I sometimes also carry the nickle plated M36 seen below in a belt holster. I really love the J-frames and shoot them well.

 

[Guillermo]

Colts go out of time after a while and they are hard to get worked on

PLEASE PLEASE keep saying that every time you can. We need all the help we can get to hold off the Colt price escallation

 

[cocojo]

There are good and bad triggers in both and some guns just shoot better than others. Colt or Smith each gun has different characteristics. I prefer Colts Agents and Cobra's but I find the older non shrouded Colts are smoother and have a better trigger than the newer guns. I own a 56 Agent and two 66 & 67 Cobras and both shoot better and have better triggers than my newer shrouded detective special. I have a 63 Smith 36 and it shoots right and not to point of aim same with my older 37. I believe that the Cylinder and Slide shop will work on Colts and can better the trigger for you. I prefer six shots.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

People who shoot Colts double action like the "stacking" -- it's almost like shooting single action when you get used to it. You take up the trigger until you feel it stack, and break the shot almost as if you were shooting with the gun cocked.

Smith and Wesson shooters who are accustomed to "pulling through" are sometimes disconcerted by it, but a Colt man can shoot as well as any man with a Smith and Wesson.

 

[savit260]

I've found that the only way I feel the "stacking" on the Colt triggers, is if I pull the trigger slowly. Yes, pulling the trigger slow, it's very easy to "stage" the trigger on a Colt. Much easier than on a S&W. If you pull the trigger slow, the S&W will probably feel better I would imagine.

If the trigger is pulled like you would use it defensively on a good Colt, the stacking isn't noticed (by me anyway) at all, and is VERY smooth. The pull is certainly longer than a S&W though, and it's a different feel.