Evergreen
Member
I am selling a rifle on various forums and the strangest thing happened today. I've never been in a situation where an out-of-state person wanted to do an FTF deal and generally wrote that I only use FFLs for anything that deals with crossing state lines. Anyhow, I am selling my DPMS LR-308 rifle and a guy calls me up today who really had a lot of interest in the gun.
The guy sent me a PM on a firearm forum and I gave him my name and number. I noticed however that he has never posted on the forum before and only had 1 post, which always makes me a bit nervous. Generally, I like dealing with people who have a bit of a reputation or experience or some trace of personality via forum posts before I deal with them. Anyway, I gave him the benefit of the doubt with the 1 post and decided to let him call me.
He says he was interested in my DPMS LR-308, because his HK cannot shoot lower grade ammo. I go to tell him that my DPMS LR-308 also has tight tolerances as I put on the ad, but would probably shoot the cheaper stuff, but isn't ideal. He seemed to be ok with that. It just struck me that I was advertising it as a match type gun and he says he wants it to shoot cheaper ammo.
Well, this is where things became a bit difficult. He said he was from Washington but comes into Oregon all the time for guns shows and buys rifles from private people all the time and even goes to Idaho to buy rifles from private people and crosses the state line and that it is perfectly legal. I told him I understand it is legal to purchase it from an FFL dealer, but I had no idea of the legality of purchasing the weapon from a private person who has no license. I've always been told that any firearm transaction over state lines is considered a felony. I knew for a fact that this applies for handguns, but didn't know exactly if this was true about long guns.
So, I told the guy I would be interested to sell him the gun, but that I need to do a bit of research because I am ignorant on the laws. Well, he then proceeds to give me a bit of a hard time saying that he does it all the time, there is nothing to worry about. He then says for me to go ahead and do it. He told me to go call a local gun store or gun dealer and ask them. He told me, "I Know What they Will Tell Ya, It is Legal!" Basically, he said I was wasting my time as the gun dealers well tell me it is legal. But that I should go ahead and do it to put my mind at ease.
He also was ready to come down immediately the same day from Washington and buy the gun outright. The sale just seemed too good to be true in a lot of ways and I was getting a bit more nervous.
Well, I then proceeded to take his advice and I called some gun stores and almost everyone of them said that it probably is not legal and even one gun store told me it would be a felony if I sold any firearm to a person from another state. I then went to the ATF website to check up on this myself and it says that any sale of a firearm to an out-of-state person is only legal via a gun dealer. I'm not sure if I was reading the ATF website correctly, but that sure seemed to indicate that a private transaction with an out-of-state person is illegal. Also, the fact that the gun dealers that he told me would Ok this transaction, mostly said it was not legal, I also became more suspicious.
So, I proceeded to call the guy and tell him the situation. I said that the gun dealers I talked to told me that it was illegal, all but one store, who said they thought it was legal. I'm thinking the person who worked at the store may have been mistaken because they are an FFL. Anyway, I talked with people at a few other reputable gun stores who said it would not be legal to do personal transaction with an out-of-state resident. So, the guy then proceeds to tell me "Well, what do you expect people at gun stores to say, they just want the business!" I then told the guy I called the gun stores at his request, that I was following his advice. He didn't have an answer to that. Then he proceeds to send me an email link proving the legality. He was citing the Firearm Owner Protection Act that gives a person the right to transfer his own firearms across state line. There is nothing in this law that states anything about selling the firearm or any type of business transaction between private parties. It does use the word "Receiving", but it just seemed too vague for me to risk committing a potential felony, especially with contradictory information on the ATF site.
Well, I told the guy that I apologize and wanted to give him a great deal. I said I would do a very good deal if we used an FFL to do the transfer. He said "No, he doesn't believe in FFLs". I told him I understood that, but I just didn't have the knowledge at the time to do the transaction. He started acting upset and cursing the government, which I could understand, but I told him I had to cover my own behind.
To try to put my mind at ease from the guy, I asked if he had a Concealed Handgun License. His answer was, "No, I don't believe in concealed handgun licenses." At this point, I started to get very suspicious of the guy. He just seemed full of it to me. Why wouldn't he have a CHL? He then started to proceed to tell me what CHL means. I told him I don't need to be educated on what open-carry was and what concealed-carry was. Considering, all the other strikes going against the guy, I just couldn't trust him at all at this point. A majority of legal gun owners have CHLs, even if they do want their guns not to be acquired through FFLs.
I am now thinking , "FELON". He saw my ad that i was looking to quickly get rid of the gun and I am thinking he thought I would be desperate and be quick to take his money. However, I know selling guns FTF does have some potential risks.
Well, I turned the guy down and he then started calling my cell a few times, which was annoying. He said, he had more information for me and that I was worrying over nothing. I just grew real suspicious and didn't really want to deal with the guy.
What I would like to know is if any people here versed on gun sale laws, especially from out-of-state purchasers, can tell me if it is legal to sell a gun to someone in a private transaction who is out-of-state. I mean for all I know, the guy was legitimate and was telling the truth. Yes, I could be ignorant, but something just didn't feel right about the guy. And, I don't have any official 100% government documentation indicating that selling to someone out-of-state is legal. The only official document I may have may come from the ATF site which states it is not legal.
This will be a good learning lesson should I ever encounter this situation again. Considering, I live right near the Washington border in Oregon, cross-state transactions are a reality. E.g., I purchased a rifle at Wal-Mart in Oregon when I was living in Washington. I would really appreciate people who could share their knowledge on the subject and post some references to the information. Legal info from reputable websites or government websites would be the most desired.
I hope I wasn't being unkind turning away the transaction from this guy, but I just didn't feel right about it and he wasn't making it easy on me.
The guy sent me a PM on a firearm forum and I gave him my name and number. I noticed however that he has never posted on the forum before and only had 1 post, which always makes me a bit nervous. Generally, I like dealing with people who have a bit of a reputation or experience or some trace of personality via forum posts before I deal with them. Anyway, I gave him the benefit of the doubt with the 1 post and decided to let him call me.
He says he was interested in my DPMS LR-308, because his HK cannot shoot lower grade ammo. I go to tell him that my DPMS LR-308 also has tight tolerances as I put on the ad, but would probably shoot the cheaper stuff, but isn't ideal. He seemed to be ok with that. It just struck me that I was advertising it as a match type gun and he says he wants it to shoot cheaper ammo.
Well, this is where things became a bit difficult. He said he was from Washington but comes into Oregon all the time for guns shows and buys rifles from private people all the time and even goes to Idaho to buy rifles from private people and crosses the state line and that it is perfectly legal. I told him I understand it is legal to purchase it from an FFL dealer, but I had no idea of the legality of purchasing the weapon from a private person who has no license. I've always been told that any firearm transaction over state lines is considered a felony. I knew for a fact that this applies for handguns, but didn't know exactly if this was true about long guns.
So, I told the guy I would be interested to sell him the gun, but that I need to do a bit of research because I am ignorant on the laws. Well, he then proceeds to give me a bit of a hard time saying that he does it all the time, there is nothing to worry about. He then says for me to go ahead and do it. He told me to go call a local gun store or gun dealer and ask them. He told me, "I Know What they Will Tell Ya, It is Legal!" Basically, he said I was wasting my time as the gun dealers well tell me it is legal. But that I should go ahead and do it to put my mind at ease.
He also was ready to come down immediately the same day from Washington and buy the gun outright. The sale just seemed too good to be true in a lot of ways and I was getting a bit more nervous.
Well, I then proceeded to take his advice and I called some gun stores and almost everyone of them said that it probably is not legal and even one gun store told me it would be a felony if I sold any firearm to a person from another state. I then went to the ATF website to check up on this myself and it says that any sale of a firearm to an out-of-state person is only legal via a gun dealer. I'm not sure if I was reading the ATF website correctly, but that sure seemed to indicate that a private transaction with an out-of-state person is illegal. Also, the fact that the gun dealers that he told me would Ok this transaction, mostly said it was not legal, I also became more suspicious.
So, I proceeded to call the guy and tell him the situation. I said that the gun dealers I talked to told me that it was illegal, all but one store, who said they thought it was legal. I'm thinking the person who worked at the store may have been mistaken because they are an FFL. Anyway, I talked with people at a few other reputable gun stores who said it would not be legal to do personal transaction with an out-of-state resident. So, the guy then proceeds to tell me "Well, what do you expect people at gun stores to say, they just want the business!" I then told the guy I called the gun stores at his request, that I was following his advice. He didn't have an answer to that. Then he proceeds to send me an email link proving the legality. He was citing the Firearm Owner Protection Act that gives a person the right to transfer his own firearms across state line. There is nothing in this law that states anything about selling the firearm or any type of business transaction between private parties. It does use the word "Receiving", but it just seemed too vague for me to risk committing a potential felony, especially with contradictory information on the ATF site.
Well, I told the guy that I apologize and wanted to give him a great deal. I said I would do a very good deal if we used an FFL to do the transfer. He said "No, he doesn't believe in FFLs". I told him I understood that, but I just didn't have the knowledge at the time to do the transaction. He started acting upset and cursing the government, which I could understand, but I told him I had to cover my own behind.
To try to put my mind at ease from the guy, I asked if he had a Concealed Handgun License. His answer was, "No, I don't believe in concealed handgun licenses." At this point, I started to get very suspicious of the guy. He just seemed full of it to me. Why wouldn't he have a CHL? He then started to proceed to tell me what CHL means. I told him I don't need to be educated on what open-carry was and what concealed-carry was. Considering, all the other strikes going against the guy, I just couldn't trust him at all at this point. A majority of legal gun owners have CHLs, even if they do want their guns not to be acquired through FFLs.
I am now thinking , "FELON". He saw my ad that i was looking to quickly get rid of the gun and I am thinking he thought I would be desperate and be quick to take his money. However, I know selling guns FTF does have some potential risks.
Well, I turned the guy down and he then started calling my cell a few times, which was annoying. He said, he had more information for me and that I was worrying over nothing. I just grew real suspicious and didn't really want to deal with the guy.
What I would like to know is if any people here versed on gun sale laws, especially from out-of-state purchasers, can tell me if it is legal to sell a gun to someone in a private transaction who is out-of-state. I mean for all I know, the guy was legitimate and was telling the truth. Yes, I could be ignorant, but something just didn't feel right about the guy. And, I don't have any official 100% government documentation indicating that selling to someone out-of-state is legal. The only official document I may have may come from the ATF site which states it is not legal.
This will be a good learning lesson should I ever encounter this situation again. Considering, I live right near the Washington border in Oregon, cross-state transactions are a reality. E.g., I purchased a rifle at Wal-Mart in Oregon when I was living in Washington. I would really appreciate people who could share their knowledge on the subject and post some references to the information. Legal info from reputable websites or government websites would be the most desired.
I hope I wasn't being unkind turning away the transaction from this guy, but I just didn't feel right about it and he wasn't making it easy on me.
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. I would also try to stay out of the ATF sting business (both sides) if I were you. It just seems like too much hassle, and then your gun is evidence, and you don't even get the money. If you're lucky, you can sell it in a few years. Though I don't see a problem with calling up their local branch and saying "John Smith living in xxxxxx tried to entice me into committing an illegal firearms transfer, you may want to look him up".
