Senators target 'graphic' video games

[G36-UK]

I know my opinion doesn't mean much here, but I'm with dasmi and the others who are calling for sense.

I've been playing violent games since I was four. That's fifteen years of violence. From C64's Arnie, to today's Doom 3.

And me? I'm not a violent person. If there's a chance to run from a fight, I'll take it (true, that's more to do with the fact all of the people round here are 'harder' and usually have weapons, but my point stands).

I use these games as a safe way to blow off some steam. I agree that they
shouldn't be in the hands of children, but that is a parental responsibility. The responsible parent would say 'no', instead of taking the games away for everyone.

Although there are few similarities between games and guns, there is a main thing that connects them:

They shouldn't be in the hands of children who would misuse/misunderstand them, but to deny sensible mature people the right to buy them is wrong.

 

[Camp David]

They shouldn't be in the hands of children who would misuse/misunderstand them....

If you accept the basic premise, as you did above, that they are bad for children, then they must also be bad for adults as well. That is why they should be banned.

I accept the fact that some are able to use them, such as yourself, with no ill effects. You are lucky. Most will not. Society will be harmed by their presence; a priority for their removal as a destructive influence to society at large.

Nobody has yet made a rational case for the presence of violent video games other than selfish personal satisfaction. Yet several have maintained, as you did above, that they are harmful for children. Therefore they are harmful to all.

Ban them. Now.

 

[torpid]

People with no experience with "evil" firearms seem all to know what's best regarding laws that would restrict or ban guns from law-abiding citizens and punish firearm manufacturers for crimes committed by others.

In their eyes every gun is a gateway to slaughter, and every gun owner a time bomb wired to kill.

The truth is that the vast majority of firearm owners are not murderers.


People with no experience with "evil" video games seem all to know what's best regarding laws that would restrict or ban games from law-abiding citizens and punish video game developers for crimes committed by others.

In their eyes every violent game is a gateway to slaughter, and every gamer a time bomb wired to kill.

The simple fact is, that the overwhelmingly vast majority of video gamers are not murderers, nor will they be- no matter the content of the games they play. They are as a whole generally not insane or evil people.

In 1966, Charles Whitman murdered 13 people from atop a tower in Texas. He had never heard of a video game because they did not exist. Crazy people with firearms have been around ever since there were firearms. Before that, lunatics still murdered people without firearms.

Scapegoating and demonizing things we dislike makes some of us feel better or safer somehow (be it The Catcher in the Rye, Taxi Driver, Elvis, or Dungeons & Dragons), but those of us who actually grew up playing video games (and still do) know through personal experience that it is as misguided and ignorant to blame games for a murderer's actions as it is to blame the gun that was used to commit the murder.

As for the experts?
"Experts" have agendas, even ones in the medical community.
As gun owners, you should be well aware of prejudice and bias in the name of "public safety" by official sources. The witch-hunting is no different here.

But hey, let's throw it all on the bonfire to be sure, especially the things we have no personal interest in, nor experience with.

After all... "it's for the children".


.

 

[The Viking]

Nobody has yet made a rational case for the presence of violent video games other than selfish personal satisfaction.

Nobody has made a rational case for the presence of firearms other than selfish personal satisfaction of being alive (by being able to defend yourself). Ban these evil guns. Now.

 

[Camp David]

Nobody has made a rational case for the presence of firearms...

Actually they have... firearms serve many uses and they are not intuitively violent; they serve sporting and defensive purposes; however, violent video games have only one purpose and that is violence and the propagation of violence. You can't play them without being violent as a winning player.

Sorry... make a better case...

 

[javafiend]

Do you like the uber violent video games and like to stroke that bit of your psyche that responds to such stimuli?

Yep, I do. I enjoy running through virtual worlds destroying my enemies with wild abandon. Shooting, stabbing, slashing, blasters, bludgeoning, fire, chemical weapons, biological weapons, chainsaws...you name it, I've used it in game. I've lost count of how many virtual kills I've racked up over the years.

Terrible, isn't it...

What if your neighbor was selling a video game on the development of a chemical weapon to poison your neighborhood?

Used to be able to do that in Star Wars Galaxies. I'd get rancor bile and spider venom from distant planets, then mix up a really nasty chemical weapon or disease, and then inflict it on the rebels.

You've selfishly put your own satisfaction above society's goals and society's moral priorities; you've sacrificed your right to decide for yourself. Others need to make the decisions you clearly cannot.

LOL...Camp David, you friggin' communist......

***

"Burn and rob, burn and rob, rock and roll made me wanna burn and rob..."

 

[Correia]

jfruser, good for you. Welcome to the world of parenting, where you seem to find a horrible new thing that somebody is trying to teach your kids every day. (I freak out on a daily basis) It is up to us to raise, protect, and guide our kids.

Camp, Society's "morals"? I've got my own morals, thanks, so you can keep yours.

People were murdered, raped, and robbed before video games were invented.

There have been mass shootings where the shooters played video games. And there have been mass shootings where they have not.

100,000,000 people who have played violent video games didn't kill anybody today. That is why your math sucks.

Citing something that a defense attorney has used to defend a murderer is not proof that that object caused the crime, otherwise we wouldn't be eating Twinkies.

Drugs are illegal. Banned. Regulated. And I still have to take parental responsibility and actually TEACH MY KIDS. If the world was one giant pink fluffy Barney world with no sharp edges, or pointy corners, I would still need to take responsibility for my kids, because there would still be something that could damage them.

 

[Camp David]

Drugs are illegal. Banned. Regulated...

That is exactly what I am proposing for violent video games too... "Banned... Regulated..."

Society has accepted that drugs are inherently bad and now bans them and punishes the suppliers of drugs... I propose the same for violent video games. Banning them and punishing their suppliers.

 

[G36-UK]

If you accept the basic premise, as you did above, that they are bad for children, then they must also be bad for adults as well. That is why they should be banned.

Not really. Young children are impressionable. IIRC, there's a point in a child's life which up until, they could not distinguish between fantasy and reality.

That is why the games are bad for impressionable children. Adults can distinguish between fantasy and reality (for the most part - there are a few who think guns kill on their own).

Ban them. Now

Better yet, do the right thing: Don't.

 

[Correia]

And make a case for them?

Since when as American's do we need to make a "case" because we want something? Most of us can't justify a car that goes faster than 75 mph, and excessive speed kills more people that mass shooters who have played video games. Doesn't mean I don't want/shouldn't have a sports car.

Selfish... perhaps? But I'm an American, so I don't have to justify anything to you or any other prohibitionist self-righteous know it all. Give us a list of the things that you like, and I bet we can come up with a self proclaimed expert that says one of those things are bad and will provide evidence and statistics showing why that noun should be banned for the good of society.

I like violent video games. I enjoy them. I play them. My kids play some of them with me, and some they do not. On each one, I make a personal decision on whether they can play or not, depending on that games content. I find games a fun diversion, just like TV, or reading. There is my justification.

I also like suppressed machine guns. Don't particularly want to justify that to a blissninny either.

 

[The Viking]

Actually they have... firearms serve many uses and they are not intuitively violent; they serve sporting and defensive purposes; however, violent video games have only one purpose and that is violence and the propagation of violence. You can't play them without being violent as a winning player.

Sorry... make a better case...

Hunting? A hobby for some (satisfaction over KILLING AN INNOCENT BAMBI-FURRY-ANIMAL!!!)
Targetshooting? Serves no real purpose whatsoever, you get rewarded for marksmanship, which everyone knows is the first step of shooting up your school/place of work. Practicing for selfdefense situations? You are practicing to fire your weapon at another living being?!?!?!? MONSTER!

 

[svtruth]

Medical Research and a One Dog Study

Camp David, presenting secondary, lay press stories about a possible connection between games and violence weakens your arguments. If you go to Entrezpubmed (Google it) you can gain free access to abstracts of medical studies. Entering violence AND video games, restricting the search to 0-18 yr olds, and the last 2 years only turned up 18 studies. None of these stated there was unequivocal evidence of video games causing violent behavior.
Possibly changing attitudes towards violence, but not action. Includes US and European studies.
My son loved GTA-SA. Is now 21, goes to Oberlin, is very gentle and loving with animals, one of his friends in HS could only get permission to go to a rock concert if he was also going, he campaigned and voted for Kerry, and is a member of the college pistol club. I bought him a .357 for Christmas.

 

[Correia]

svtruth, he voted for Kerry? Okay, I change my mind. I'm with Camp David now. Burn them all.

 

[Daniel T]

...violent video games have only one purpose and that is violence and the propagation of violence.

<No.> What a ridiculous statement to make.

"...guns have only one purpose and that is violence and the propagation of violence."

Even a child is intelligent enough to grasp the parallel in those two statements. No matter how much you want to deny it, the premise is exactly the same. YOU think something is bad, therefore YOU want to get rid of it. That's it, a purely emotional reaction, with nothing but after-the-thought rationalizations to back it up.

 

[dasmi]

You've selfishly put your own satisfaction above society's goals and society's moral priorities; you've sacrificed your right to decide for yourself. Others need to make the decisions you clearly cannot.

Society's goals? Society's moral priorities? What happened to the individual?
How have I sacrificied my right to decide for myself? I decide, for myself, that I want to play said violent games. You would deny me that right. What is society decided for you that you couldn't own a gun, or a car, or have kids, or spend your money as you please? Would that be ok? You're alright with letting others decide things for you? What a sad, sad existence.

If you accept the basic premise, as you did above, that they are bad for children, then they must also be bad for adults as well. That is why they should be banned.

Handing a child a power drill is bad, so it must be bad for adults. Ban them. Handing a child a loaded gun is bad, so they must be bad for adults. Ban them. Putting a child in the driver's seat of a running car is bad, so they must be bad for adults. Ban them. Giving a child a beer is bad, so it must be bad for adults. Ban it.

 

[Master Blaster]

People with no experience with "evil" firearms seem all to know what's best regarding laws that would restrict or ban guns from law-abiding citizens and punish firearm manufacturers for crimes committed by others.

In their eyes every gun is a gateway to slaughter, and every gun owner a time bomb wired to kill.
The truth is that the vast majority of firearm owners are not murderers.

People with no experience with "evil" video games seem all to know what's best regarding laws that would restrict or ban games from law-abiding citizens and punish video game developers for crimes committed by others.
In their eyes every violent game is a gateway to slaughter, and every gamer a time bomb wired to kill.

The simple fact is, that the overwhelmingly vast majority of video gamers are not murderers, nor will they be- no matter the content of the games they play. They are as a whole generally not insane or evil people.

+1

Any of you folks ever see the very popular comic books sold openly in Japan, why they have graphic sex rape and murder pictured in them, that would earn them an X rating in the US and a place of sale only in a licensed adult book store. they sell them at book stores and newsstands to anyone Folks in Japan need these as a release. They dont go out and rape and murder. Somehow Japan has a very low violent crime rate.

Every child I have ever met is born with either a Penis, or a Vagina. They also come with two hands, and even more dangerous, a human brain. Think of all the bad evil and immoral things they can do with these God given tools.
The potential for evil is mind boggling. Fortunately most children still have parents who teach them how to use these dangerous accessories properly.

The Gov. wants to regulate the game industry for our protection, but that is going to be expensive So they will need to enact a Tax to pay for that. The result will be a great new revenue source and a new beaurocracy to waste all the money they collect from US.

 

[Camp David]

... presenting secondary, lay press stories about a possible connection between games and violence weakens your arguments...

Then I quote from The National Constitution Center, a respected education and outreach endeavor:
http://www.constitutioncenter.org/e...ussionStarters/BanningViolentVideoGames.shtml
The Illinois House of Representative passed a law banning the sale of violent or explicit video games to anyone under the age of 18. Several other states have proposed similar measures.
What reasons are states giving for trying to prevent minors from buying violent or explicit video games?
-The video games are violent and unsuitable for minors.
-Establishing decency guidelines makes a parent’s job easier.
-Children may act upon the portrayals they see in the video games.
-Repeated violent images may psychologically damage a child.

What penalties are these bills proposing for someone who rents or sells these games to minors?
-Anyone who sells or rents violent or explicit video games to minors could face a criminal misdemeanor conviction that carries up to a $5,000 dollar fine and 6-12 months in jail.

 

[dasmi]

The Illinois House of Representative passed a law banning the sale of violent or explicit video games to anyone under the age of 18. Several other states have proposed similar measures.

As stated numerous times by many, including myself, THE GAMES ARE NOT FOR CHILDREN. The problem, is that parents give the games to their kids. Which doesn't automatically mean they are killers.

 

[Camp David]

How have I sacrificied my right to decide for myself? I decide, for myself, that I want to play said violent games...

Removing the violent video game from your reach is what is intented by such a ban; as children clearly cannot make the decision and adults too, as your post exhibits, have trouble putting society above their own selfishness. By banning violent video games, the decision is made for you.

 

[dasmi]

You have no right to make decisions for me. I am no danger to society because I play violent games. Please stop projecting your own issues on me. Tell you what, I'll keep playing the games and I promise not to rape or murder you. If, for some reason, I show up at your house to kill you, you've every right to put a bullet into my chest. But I assure you, this won't happen.

Removing the violent video game from your reach is what is intented by such a ban

Removing alcohol from your reach...
Removing sex from your reach...
Removing guns from your reach...
Removing cigarettes from your reach...
Removing pornography from your reach...
Removing fatty foods from your reach...
And what makes you think a ban would remove anything from anyone's reach?
Handguns are banned in the UK, yet recent estimates put the number of illegal handguns on the street at around 300,000.

 

[Sindawe]

Punish the parents, not grown men like to who enjoy video games.

Ahhhh... but by Camp David's reasoning, since the games are bad for children, they are also bad for adults and hence should be banned.

In the same vein, since sexual intercourse is bad for children, it is also bad for adults and hence must be banned.

We MUST stamp out these degenerate sexualists and prevent them from polluting our society!

Kudos to those who recognize the work I've pulled the above line from.

 

[Camp David]

I am no danger to society because I play violent games...

Awaiting a threat to materialize is dangerous; proactive steps need be taken now to neutralize the threat before it appears!

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't have any use for video games, particularly. I figure I waste enough time browsing the Internet.

Howsomever, the violence in video games is a substitute for violence in the real world. It's not a lot different than football or target shooting. Not a lot different, really, from what guys do in cut-throat business deals.

If agression is worked off vicariously, without harm to others, it is indeed harmless. (Okay, there will always be that few who can't separate imagination from reality, but there are danged few of them.)

Look: I can take a photo of some VIP for whom I have an extreme dislike. I can set it up as a target. I can giggle with glee with each bullet hole or arrow hole I make. When I'm done, who's harmed? My aggression has been worked off. I can do the same thing with video games...

The deal for kids is for parents to explain why some games are okay and some are not, insofar as the parents' view is concerned. Parents are obligated to oversee the kids so that the little grabbers know the difference between games and reality, just as my generation knew the difference between cap pistols and .22 rifles.

There are toys and play; there are real guns and reality. We were taught the difference in our single-digit years. Heck, that's part of the "why" of cap pistols and BB guns.

Art

 

[dasmi]

Ok, this whole thing has got to be a joke. You can't possibly believe that.
Were you beaten up by a video game programmer or something?
Oh my! I own a truck! It's possible, however unlikely, that I might someday run someone over with it! We must suspend my license, and impound my vehicle!

 

[Camp David]

Oh my! I own a truck! It's possible, however unlikely, that I might someday run someone over with it! We must suspend my license, and impound my vehicle!

Trucks are not dangerous...trucks serve a useful purpose... they are not inherently dangerous... your truck is fine!

Your violent video game, however, is a threat.

It should be banned.