Senators target 'graphic' video games
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Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Holding a contrary position doesn't make you right. So far in this thread, all you've done is adhered to "Games are bad, mmmkay. They should be banned!" Your position has been debunked literally thousands of times in the last decade and a half, and if we expand your position to that held by other jack-booted puritans starting with the late 19th century, it hasn't changed one smidge from the days when so-called moral leaders were callling for the banishment of penny dreadful novels.
I have a question:
Are you high?
You cannot, with any sort of actual rationality, claim to support the Bill of Rights, which includes this little bit in the First amendment about Free Expression. No where does it stipulate that controls can be placed on what can or cannot be expressed or what methods are used for that expression.
You are no friend of the Bill of Rights. You do not support the Bill of Rights, and your condescending disdain for the intelligence of your fellow human beings is contemptible.
It goes beyond video games. Your entire position in this whole thread is built around the concept that other adults (I will pause here to point out that the average age of the video game consumer is 27) are too stupid and immoral to be allowed to live their own lives in a manner that they see fit.
Thus far you have provided no rational reason to back up your calls for banning video games.
Don't like violent video games?
Fine.
Then don't play them.
Don't let your children play them.
But most importantly explain why.
That you somehow think that you have a right to tell other people what media they can and cannot consume is patently offensive to the concept of individual liberty. It is an affront to the intellect of any rational, intelligent human being, and a belief hateful to the spirit of anyone who doesn't hew to your archaic, collectivist idiocy.
Oh, and one question:
How do you propose to enforce your ban on violent video games?
After all, laws on paper certainly aren't enough. So tell me, what actions should be undertaken to enforce this ban?
Failure to address my last two questions will only be taken as further proof that you have given no rational thought to the topic at hand.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Please see my previous post in this thread on Dave Grossman's work. In my opinion, he has been thoroughly debunked.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Neither do fast cars, R-rated movies, romance novels, Coca-Cola, tobacco, liquor, coffee, fast food, sky diving, kinky sex, professional football, and on and on.
In fact, all of those things have been attacked as having a detrimental effect on society at large, and calls have been made for them to be banned. So why video games and not, say, R-rated movies?
After all, why just ban one thing and make society a little bit better when you can ban lots of bad things and make society awesome?
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Agreed. Grossman is a gun-grabbing hack. That anyone can take his work seriously on any sort of academic level speaks volumes about the lack of academic rigor applied to this particular topic.
This is the guy who claims that the school shooter at Paducah, Kentucky wouldn't have been nearly as accurate with a pistol but for his hours spent playing video games.
Well, I must admit I'm feeling a little...flabbergasted.
If you believe that violent video games are immoral, well, that's perfectly fine with me (for what little it's worth.)
What I have troubles with is your belief that violent video games should be banned. I've had trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that I should support 'x,' but I should steer clear of 'y' and urge banning of it.
I enjoy video games for several reasons. In the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games I enjoy making "what-if" scenerios and changing the course of Chinese history. I struggle to achieve dominance in the Civilization games. I feel tense as I try to to capture ghosts in the Fatal Frame games.
I would much rather play a game with a dull plot then watch yet another reality show or even watch a movie that has the same plot; it's more immersive and I can actually change the outcome of how it plays out.
Like I said before, I'm only 20 years old with relatively little world experience. However, I would think that people would realize after hundreds of years that if you give the government an inch, it almost always takes a mile.
If you believe that violent video games are immoral, well, that's perfectly fine with me (for what little it's worth.)
What I have troubles with is your belief that violent video games should be banned. I've had trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that I should support 'x,' but I should steer clear of 'y' and urge banning of it.
I enjoy video games for several reasons. In the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games I enjoy making "what-if" scenerios and changing the course of Chinese history. I struggle to achieve dominance in the Civilization games. I feel tense as I try to to capture ghosts in the Fatal Frame games.
I would much rather play a game with a dull plot then watch yet another reality show or even watch a movie that has the same plot; it's more immersive and I can actually change the outcome of how it plays out.
Like I said before, I'm only 20 years old with relatively little world experience. However, I would think that people would realize after hundreds of years that if you give the government an inch, it almost always takes a mile.
I can't believe all this.....these liberal, save us from our selves, psychologists and politicians have half the people brainwashed that it is a good thing to ban/regulate everything that seems harmful to them. What the heck ever happened to personal choice?
Back in the dark ages, when I grew up, we watched those violent westerns on TV before they got boohooed. Yep, see the effect it had on me. You can’t count the number of people I've shot in the street and left them dead.
As far as the kids go, it's high time parents started being parents again. Parents should be a parent to their children first....and a friend after that. I've seen too many times where the whole family kowtows to a 7 or 10 year old kid. This is utter nonsense. Kids are kids and parents are parents. What ever happened to that concept?
Off soapbox.
Back in the dark ages, when I grew up, we watched those violent westerns on TV before they got boohooed. Yep, see the effect it had on me. You can’t count the number of people I've shot in the street and left them dead.
As far as the kids go, it's high time parents started being parents again. Parents should be a parent to their children first....and a friend after that. I've seen too many times where the whole family kowtows to a 7 or 10 year old kid. This is utter nonsense. Kids are kids and parents are parents. What ever happened to that concept?
Off soapbox.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Evidently.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
thats an interesting OPINION. i knew i was like an ultimate mall ninja, but i had no idea that my skills with a mouse/keyboard and xbox controller made me actually violent!
mfree
Member
As much as public safety is a myth, being that the safety of the private individual is tantamount... society is a mythical construct, and results from individual morals and choices.
You, Camp David, may choose to disallow violent video games from your home and from your children. Kudos to you, you're an active parent.
Me? Leave me the hell alone, sir. You have no right or dictum in how I conduct my life asides from where my life influences you and yours directly. I play video games in the privacy of my own home. How does this affect you?
You have a serious logical disconnect, I suggest you seek professional help.
You say you support freedom, yet you take it away from others. Who is selfish here?
You, Camp David, may choose to disallow violent video games from your home and from your children. Kudos to you, you're an active parent.
Me? Leave me the hell alone, sir. You have no right or dictum in how I conduct my life asides from where my life influences you and yours directly. I play video games in the privacy of my own home. How does this affect you?
You have a serious logical disconnect, I suggest you seek professional help.
You say you support freedom, yet you take it away from others. Who is selfish here?
dasmi
Member
+1
And another logical disconnect. Hunting is okay, but games are bad because they prepare you to be violent.
I've been up to my elbows in the blood and guts of animals that I've killed. I've stalked them over land. I've taken careful aim, and I've ended their lives, brutally. I've killed my own food many times. I've taken a knife and gutted a once living creature and pulled its skin off. I've watched small animals explode into a pink vapor through a 9X scope. I've looked into a pet cow's big, brown, eyes, an animal that I had raised from a calf, named, and shown at the county fair, and I've put a .22 bullet through its skull and into its brain, so that we could hoist it up on a hook, and butcher it into pieces, so that we could eat it.
Guns are okay, but games are bad because they prepare you to be violent.
I'm a 3gun competitor. I take military style weapons to a military/police style range. I engage man shaped targets. I do so while moving, using cover, and at a very high rate of speed. I engage targets from contact distance to long range on a constant basis. I expend thousands of rounds a year training for these events. I have the ability to fire 4 aimed shots a second with a handgun at close range. I can perform a 2.11 second Dozier drill with a pump shotgun, and 1.79 with a semi. If I can see a man size target with a rifle, I can hit it.
I teach concealed weapons and defensive firearms classes. In those classes I try to mentally prepare people to be able to draw a firearm, and put multiple bullets into a living, breathing, human being. I teach my students to shoot the aggresor until the threat ends. If you carry a gun, you have to be mentally prepared to inflict terrific violence upon another.
I sell guns, with their main purpose being their ability to take a human life. I do this because their are bad people in the world who are willing to hurt us, and we must be prepared to inflict violence upon them. I have guns on the wall that would cause the average liberal's brain to overheat just thinking about.
I've studied martial arts off and on for years. I enjoy fighting. I've had my face smashed flat, my jaw dislocated, my nose broken, my eyes bruised, my bones cracked, and left quite a lot of blood on the ground. I enjoy lifting heavy weights, and though I have slacked off in recent years, as a very large man, still have the ability to tear most regular people's head off.
So in comparison, which one makes me a more efficient killer?
The above? Or sitting on my butt and playing video games?
No offense to your average gamer, but if neccesary, I could easily kill them. As could most serious gun/self defense minded people.
You say that games make us callous towards violence. I say that is utter foolishness. All survivable human beings have a capability towards violence. Violence has, and will be, part of human nature, regardless of when, where, or how that society exists.
Your arguments disgust me. Frankly, I am ashamed that another American would think the things that you do. Your position and philosophy is the same as the greatest tyrants of history, just the object of your disdain is different. I was joking about the Taliban, but what exactly makes you different than them? Is your God bigger than theirs? Just like the Taliban, you have a code of morals, which you believe are true, just, and correct, and you are prepared to inflict those morals on others who disagree with you.
Disgusting.
I've been up to my elbows in the blood and guts of animals that I've killed. I've stalked them over land. I've taken careful aim, and I've ended their lives, brutally. I've killed my own food many times. I've taken a knife and gutted a once living creature and pulled its skin off. I've watched small animals explode into a pink vapor through a 9X scope. I've looked into a pet cow's big, brown, eyes, an animal that I had raised from a calf, named, and shown at the county fair, and I've put a .22 bullet through its skull and into its brain, so that we could hoist it up on a hook, and butcher it into pieces, so that we could eat it.
Guns are okay, but games are bad because they prepare you to be violent.
I'm a 3gun competitor. I take military style weapons to a military/police style range. I engage man shaped targets. I do so while moving, using cover, and at a very high rate of speed. I engage targets from contact distance to long range on a constant basis. I expend thousands of rounds a year training for these events. I have the ability to fire 4 aimed shots a second with a handgun at close range. I can perform a 2.11 second Dozier drill with a pump shotgun, and 1.79 with a semi. If I can see a man size target with a rifle, I can hit it.
I teach concealed weapons and defensive firearms classes. In those classes I try to mentally prepare people to be able to draw a firearm, and put multiple bullets into a living, breathing, human being. I teach my students to shoot the aggresor until the threat ends. If you carry a gun, you have to be mentally prepared to inflict terrific violence upon another.
I sell guns, with their main purpose being their ability to take a human life. I do this because their are bad people in the world who are willing to hurt us, and we must be prepared to inflict violence upon them. I have guns on the wall that would cause the average liberal's brain to overheat just thinking about.
I've studied martial arts off and on for years. I enjoy fighting. I've had my face smashed flat, my jaw dislocated, my nose broken, my eyes bruised, my bones cracked, and left quite a lot of blood on the ground. I enjoy lifting heavy weights, and though I have slacked off in recent years, as a very large man, still have the ability to tear most regular people's head off.
So in comparison, which one makes me a more efficient killer?
The above? Or sitting on my butt and playing video games?
No offense to your average gamer, but if neccesary, I could easily kill them. As could most serious gun/self defense minded people.
You say that games make us callous towards violence. I say that is utter foolishness. All survivable human beings have a capability towards violence. Violence has, and will be, part of human nature, regardless of when, where, or how that society exists.
Your arguments disgust me. Frankly, I am ashamed that another American would think the things that you do. Your position and philosophy is the same as the greatest tyrants of history, just the object of your disdain is different. I was joking about the Taliban, but what exactly makes you different than them? Is your God bigger than theirs? Just like the Taliban, you have a code of morals, which you believe are true, just, and correct, and you are prepared to inflict those morals on others who disagree with you.
Disgusting.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
spacemanspiff said:
Spiff, you and I apparently have a different definition of interesting.
In my world, his opinion isn't so much interesting as it is infuriatingly ill-informed.
I was a video game addict up until I went to college. If playing violent video games makes one more efficient at killing and using weapons, then perhaps Camp David would like to explain to me why I was far too innaccurate to win bullseye competitions and far too slow to win IDPA matches when I started shooting those in college.
Honestly, though, at this point I seriously doubt he'll even respond to this thread, and if he does, his post will be nothing more than a replay of all of the opinions he's posted so far, making it abundantly clear to all and sundry that he's given no thought to the critiques raised of his position. Just an ad naseum repeat of "Video games are bad...mmmkay?"
Domino
Member
Camp David, you seem to utterly fail to realize that we are talking about VIDEO GAMES and not terrorist training camps. Video games are NOT REAL, they are simply forms of entertainment. Video games cause violence like guns cause violence because neither of them are the of cause violence. Did violence not exist BEFORE video games???? You argument is not one of freedom but of oppression, your logic makes me sick. 
Correia, that is best statement I have heard on this thread, well said.
Down with BS censorship!!!
Correia, that is best statement I have heard on this thread, well said.
Down with BS censorship!!!
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
but see, thats okay! i'm sure some of my own opinions on various other topics would be equally infuriatingly ill informed in your eyes and many others. we each can make our own opinions, whether or not they are good is irrelevant, thats not the point. they dont even have to make sense.
what is the point, is what we do with them.
the gentlemans opinion, i dont and would never, find infuriating. the fact he is trying to shove it down everyone elses throats and insisting only his view is the correct one, that would infuriate me, IF i chose to let it.
personally, i'm quite surprised that this thread has this much input.
Master Blaster
Member
Daniel T
Member
Justin, seriously, this guy is trolling the hell out of all of you. It's a beautiful troll too, as he could post it on almost every message board out there and get tons of responses. Liberals, Libertarians, and many Conservatives would all argue with this guy, for pages and pages.
Come on, he has all of the classic signs of trolling: repeating the exact same arguments phased slightly differently, making statements that get increasingly absurd, declaring all arguments made against him as baseless, proclaiming his own viewpoint as inviolate, etc, etc... It's all there.
sm
member
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=%s
graph·ic Audio pronunciation of "graphic" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (grfk)
adj. also graph·i·cal (--kl)
1.
1. Of or relating to written representation.
2. Of or relating to pictorial representation.
2. Of, relating to, or represented by or as if by a graph.
3.
1. Described in vivid detail.
2. Clearly outlined or set forth.
4. Of or relating to the graphic arts.
5. Of or relating to graphics.
6. Geology. Having crystals resembling printed characters.
n.
1. A work of graphic art.
2. A pictorial device used for illustration, as in a lecture.
3. A graphic display generated by a computer or an imaging device.
3 entries found for violent.
vi·o·lent Audio pronunciation of "violent" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lnt)
adj.
1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.
5. Tending to distort or injure meaning, phrasing, or intent.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin violentus, from vs, vi-, force. See wei- in Indo-European Roots.]vio·lent·ly adv.
[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
violent
adj 1: acting with or marked by or resulting from great force or energy or emotional intensity; "a violent attack"; "a violent person"; "violent feelings"; "a violent rage"; "felt a violent dislike" [ant: nonviolent] 2: effected by force or injury rather than natural causes; "a violent death" 3: (of colors or sounds) intensely vivid or loud; "a violent clash of colors"; "her dress was a violent red"; "a violent noise"; "wild colors"; "wild shouts" [syn: wild] 4: marked by extreme intensity of emotions or convictions; inclined to react violently; fervid; "fierce loyalty"; "in a tearing rage"; "vehement dislike"; "violent passions" [syn: fierce, tearing, vehement, trigger-happy] 5: characterized by violence or bloodshed; "writes of crimson deeds and barbaric days"- Andrea Parke; "fann'd by Conquest's crimson wing"- Thomas Gray; "convulsed with red rage"- Hudson Strode [syn: crimson, red]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
11 entries found for sex.
sex Audio pronunciation of "sex" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sks)
n.
1.
1. The property or quality by which organisms are classified as female or male on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions.
2. Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification.
2. Females or males considered as a group.
3. The condition or character of being female or male; the physiological, functional, and psychological differences that distinguish the female and the male. See Usage Note at gender.
4. The sexual urge or instinct as it manifests itself in behavior.
5. Sexual intercourse.
6. The genitals.
tr.v. sexed, sex·ing, sex·es
1. To determine the sex of (an organism).
2. Slang.
1. To arouse sexually. Often used with up.
2. To increase the appeal or attractiveness of. Often used with up.
[Middle English, from Latin sexus.]
Either of these two Senators looked the mirror lately?
Any of their Elite kind?
I guess those in .gov whom seek to erode MY Freedoms for the benefit of Tyranny - have not the abilty to see their own images.
For if they did - they would understand their Portrait in Media manifests itself - in order to change behaviors -in more vile graphic , violent , and more perversion than any video game could ever dream of doing.
graph·ic Audio pronunciation of "graphic" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (grfk)
adj. also graph·i·cal (--kl)
1.
1. Of or relating to written representation.
2. Of or relating to pictorial representation.
2. Of, relating to, or represented by or as if by a graph.
3.
1. Described in vivid detail.
2. Clearly outlined or set forth.
4. Of or relating to the graphic arts.
5. Of or relating to graphics.
6. Geology. Having crystals resembling printed characters.
n.
1. A work of graphic art.
2. A pictorial device used for illustration, as in a lecture.
3. A graphic display generated by a computer or an imaging device.
3 entries found for violent.
vi·o·lent Audio pronunciation of "violent" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lnt)
adj.
1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.
5. Tending to distort or injure meaning, phrasing, or intent.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin violentus, from vs, vi-, force. See wei- in Indo-European Roots.]vio·lent·ly adv.
[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
violent
adj 1: acting with or marked by or resulting from great force or energy or emotional intensity; "a violent attack"; "a violent person"; "violent feelings"; "a violent rage"; "felt a violent dislike" [ant: nonviolent] 2: effected by force or injury rather than natural causes; "a violent death" 3: (of colors or sounds) intensely vivid or loud; "a violent clash of colors"; "her dress was a violent red"; "a violent noise"; "wild colors"; "wild shouts" [syn: wild] 4: marked by extreme intensity of emotions or convictions; inclined to react violently; fervid; "fierce loyalty"; "in a tearing rage"; "vehement dislike"; "violent passions" [syn: fierce, tearing, vehement, trigger-happy] 5: characterized by violence or bloodshed; "writes of crimson deeds and barbaric days"- Andrea Parke; "fann'd by Conquest's crimson wing"- Thomas Gray; "convulsed with red rage"- Hudson Strode [syn: crimson, red]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
11 entries found for sex.
sex Audio pronunciation of "sex" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sks)
n.
1.
1. The property or quality by which organisms are classified as female or male on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions.
2. Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification.
2. Females or males considered as a group.
3. The condition or character of being female or male; the physiological, functional, and psychological differences that distinguish the female and the male. See Usage Note at gender.
4. The sexual urge or instinct as it manifests itself in behavior.
5. Sexual intercourse.
6. The genitals.
tr.v. sexed, sex·ing, sex·es
1. To determine the sex of (an organism).
2. Slang.
1. To arouse sexually. Often used with up.
2. To increase the appeal or attractiveness of. Often used with up.
[Middle English, from Latin sexus.]
Either of these two Senators looked the mirror lately?
Any of their Elite kind?
I guess those in .gov whom seek to erode MY Freedoms for the benefit of Tyranny - have not the abilty to see their own images.
For if they did - they would understand their Portrait in Media manifests itself - in order to change behaviors -in more vile graphic , violent , and more perversion than any video game could ever dream of doing.
Manedwolf
member
One more word about "violent" video games...some of the parents' groups were even calling the Medal of Honor games violent. The incredibly immersive ones that didn't glorify anything, that put you into the middle of some of the most difficult, confusing and horrific battles of WWII, from Pearl Harbor to Operation Market Garden.
And for anyone whose family served in that, if a kid has been playing that, just watch their eyes when you tell them "Your grandfather did that for real. He lost a lot of friends, and he was a hero."
You'll see sheer, wide-eyed awe in their face. And they'll never, ever look at their grandfather, if still alive, or a photo of them if they're not, the same way again. Because they'll have experienced, in a way no bland history book could convey, just what it is that those people went through in their fight all those years ago.
Even in a game, they'll have been able to look down at the M1 in their hands, crouch in shadows in the mud, and have their heart race in terror at the sound of approaching German or Japanese shouts, they'll have been able to stare helplessly at dive-bombers hitting other battleships from the deck of theirs, they'll have been able to run off a landing ramp into deep water and face the flashes of machine-gun nests as people go down all around them, in immersive smoke, and noise, and cries, and shouts, and confusion. They'll have a connection, that it's not just an old gun on the wall, it's not just an old uniform in the attic...that this is what these people did, for real. So that they'd have the freedoms they have now.
Tell me THAT isn't valuable.
And for anyone whose family served in that, if a kid has been playing that, just watch their eyes when you tell them "Your grandfather did that for real. He lost a lot of friends, and he was a hero."
You'll see sheer, wide-eyed awe in their face. And they'll never, ever look at their grandfather, if still alive, or a photo of them if they're not, the same way again. Because they'll have experienced, in a way no bland history book could convey, just what it is that those people went through in their fight all those years ago.
Even in a game, they'll have been able to look down at the M1 in their hands, crouch in shadows in the mud, and have their heart race in terror at the sound of approaching German or Japanese shouts, they'll have been able to stare helplessly at dive-bombers hitting other battleships from the deck of theirs, they'll have been able to run off a landing ramp into deep water and face the flashes of machine-gun nests as people go down all around them, in immersive smoke, and noise, and cries, and shouts, and confusion. They'll have a connection, that it's not just an old gun on the wall, it's not just an old uniform in the attic...that this is what these people did, for real. So that they'd have the freedoms they have now.
Tell me THAT isn't valuable.
KriegHund
Member
I herad about this some time ago....
Will the government never keep its hands off of what i want to do?
If im 18 and i want to play any game, watch any movie, or read any book than i darned well ought to be able to.
No offence to the people who arent at fualt here, but im beggining to think more and more that the 'baby boomer' generation here has really f'ed things up.
And while thats a pretty big generalization, its pretty much true for half the population.....
Theres an idiotic comment.
Ive been playing violent video games since i was about...8, i think. Started with a sega genesis and fighting games. Moved up to computers and duke nukem, etc etc.
Ive been playing these 'awful' games for 8 years. As far as i know ive never raped/murdered/stolen from/to anybody.
I guess you can regulate video games when i can regulate what you read. Wont be so good then, eh? When you cant read about the holocaust because its too violent?
Will the government never keep its hands off of what i want to do?
If im 18 and i want to play any game, watch any movie, or read any book than i darned well ought to be able to.
No offence to the people who arent at fualt here, but im beggining to think more and more that the 'baby boomer' generation here has really f'ed things up.
And while thats a pretty big generalization, its pretty much true for half the population.....
Camp David said:
Theres an idiotic comment.
Ive been playing violent video games since i was about...8, i think. Started with a sega genesis and fighting games. Moved up to computers and duke nukem, etc etc.
Ive been playing these 'awful' games for 8 years. As far as i know ive never raped/murdered/stolen from/to anybody.
I guess you can regulate video games when i can regulate what you read. Wont be so good then, eh? When you cant read about the holocaust because its too violent?
Actually, I think that SEEING extreme violence makes one dislike it and makes one KNOW what is going to happen if he becomes violent (a lot of blood and gore). Thus making choises to stay away from becoming violent (simple macho fistfights aren't violence, in my opinion... when two individuals choose to engage into punching contest it's their choice... violence is when serious bodily injury is caused, or when innocent bystanders are attacked or mugged)
It's like martial arist that knows how to kill with bare hands, yet avoids confronations, because he gains RESPECT for what can be done in short period of time.
It's like martial arist that knows how to kill with bare hands, yet avoids confronations, because he gains RESPECT for what can be done in short period of time.
- Status
