Separation of Church and State

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Re: the case before the SCOTUS to remove "Under God" From the P.of A.

God can mean different things to different people.

To some it mean The Father of Jesus Christ.
To some it means Buddha.
To some it means that guy in the next lane shooting 5" groups off-hand at 500 yards.

To each his own. I hope they keep the phrase there.

Smoke
 
I found it interesting that the original Pledge of Allegiance was penned by a Baptist minister. He chose not to include an invocation of God in the pledge.

editted to add: apparently Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), the Baptist minister mentioned above, was a socialist, per The Pledge of Allegiance, A Short History

editted again to correct "invokation" to "invocation." I never realized that "invoke" was with a "k" and "invocation" was with a "c." :confused:
 
Tamara,

Why is it that I don't see all the people cheerleading for this Newdow twit also backing a lawsuit against the system of compulsory schooling by govt? I know you're against govt schooling, but it seems that this whole issue of the pledge would be moot if it were not within the confines of an immoral education system.

I really want to know what the actual harm is when for .8 seconds when the phrase "under God" is uttered. Whether it's under God or under Glockler in the pledge, the actual effect is nonexistant, especially when considered that athiests believe that it's fictional anyway, much like if I heard "under Obi-Wan" in the pledge. Compare that to the damage that is done 1) to the taxpayers in financing this house of waste, and more importantly 2) the damage done to the lifelong potential of the student after they are subjected to years of emotional, social, and political conditioning without even the most basic of tools needed to survive much less prosper in today's economy.

If Newdow and his ilk are upset about their children (he doesnt even have custody of his daughter) being subjected to beliefs they dont adhere to I'd be more than happy to listen to his complaint when he agrees to solve this problem at it's root and address the issue of govt schooling. Until that point they're nothing more than hipocrites who are ok with govt indoctrination as long as it's their brand. That being the case, he can pound sand.

I want him to feel the jackboot of big govt on his neck so he knows how the rest of us feel.
 
apparently Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), the Baptist minister mentioned above, was a socialist, per The Pledge of Allegiance, A Short History


Very true. For a truly disturbing picture, here is the original salute to the flag. Not for the faint of heart.
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Glock Glockler:

That is what the whole home school movement is all about. I have no idea whether the plaintiff in this case believes in government mandated schooling or not, but there are many, many people who don't. Most don’t have the time or money for a lawsuit that is probably doomed anyway. They simply opt out of the system best they can.

Excellent sig, BTW.


edited: SP
 
Disappointed that the SCOTUS didn't go for that Silvera vs. Lockyer case. That's why I'm trying to become a lawyer...:fire:

Anyway, the case is pretty clear IMHO. I personally think "Under God" should be removed (hell, the whole Pledge should probably be removed - no need to indoctrinate our kids in the nanny state any further).

School prayer is fine - just don't use any government money or apparatus to do it.
 
Eyes Wide Shut

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

It seems to me that the "Separation of Church and State" is not found in the Constitution.

Uh... its right there. "Separation of Church and State" is just a legal shorthand term for that portion of the 1st Amendment you quoted.

In otherwords, Congress isn't supposed to make laws regarding religion, pro or con. SCOTUS may say the same thing in 35 pages, but that is the gist of it.
 
Glock Glockler,

Why is it that I don't see all the people cheerleading for this Newdow twit also backing a lawsuit against the system of compulsory schooling by govt?

You caught me out; I'm a member of the International Communist Conspiracy To Sap And Impurify Your Precious Bodily Fluids.

Sorry, but I'm just not one of those who gets her knickers in a twist about what "all the people" are doing, as long as they ain't involving me. People who take my money and use it to brainwash kids with the religious ideals of Bronze Age goatherds in mandatory government Kiddie Kamps obviously are involving me. If they don't want me pissed, they can stop using my money to do it with. :)
 
Uh... its right there. "Separation of Church and State" is just a legal shorthand term for that portion of the 1st Amendment you quoted.

The problem is that what he just quoted only refers to Congress. Since the "separation of church and state" is a doctrine that is applied to all branches of government including the civil service, you need more than this to really justify it. Also consider that many separation cases defacto prohibit the free exercise of religion.
 
Tamara, this isn't directed at you. . .

Yeah, lets really seperate religion and politics.

Like working on Saturday and Sunday. After all, those two days are the Sabboth and the Lord's Day.
And Christmas break, in which we celebrate the birth of Jesus.
And Thanksgiving break, in which we thank the Creator for His blessings this year.
And do away with hospitals, since those are primarily run by Christian organizations.
And do away with most Ivy League schools, which were founded as seminariares.
And social programs? Who needs 'em? Taking care of the poor is a decidedly Christian concept.

Like it or not, this country was founded on religious principals. I grow tired of 10% of the counrty forcing their ideals down the throat of the other 90%.
 
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