Serving your country.

[CoachVince]

My feelings on manditory service have also fluctuated over the years. I do feel that after high school it might be good to be required to do 1 or 2 years of either military or public service work (like peace corp or something). Also, if they chose miltitary but did not want to be a soldier put them in GS service as a clerk or some other civilian support type position.

I was physically unfit for service, despite having been in football and wrestling in high school; kidney disorder, severe arthritis, a few others. Now, in my late 30's, I'm probably more acceptable. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be fair to my wife now (though every time I read about the age limit going up I wonder). I also considered becoming a police officer, and didn't feel I would be as a good an officer as I would have liked.

Regarding mandatory service; I support some of Heinlein's views. Voluntary service; in military or CCC-type work, will give you full rights as a citizen when you join (17, 18). Everybody else waits til 21. I know that's not quite what he wrote, and it's an over-simplification of the concept- oh well.

I do support, in word and deed, those who serve. Whether they do it for college money, a sign-on bonus, or the noble intentions in their heart, they still serve, and die, the same. I mean no disrespect to those who do it for the good of the nation; those are the "ones who make sure the others get home".

 

[CoachVince]

I'm 23 now, and this is one of those ideas that's floated through my mind occasionally. I dismiss it after I give it a little thought, though. I'm kicking too much ass in graduate school to simply leave (I'm a 17th grader now!), and I think most of you would rather have me serve by completing my Ph.D and teaching your kids.

Still, I'll shoot at the bad guys if they make it to Minnesota!

Amen. I'd be trying to do a good impression of the black teacher at the beginning of "Red Dawn"; except for the dying part.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Not everyone is wanting to go serve, and get treated like Col. West was.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031121-074340-4235r.htm

Colonel West knowingly and voluntarily violated the rules of engagement. The editorial calls it "persecution" but in fact it is "prosecution." If we as a nation are to survive as a nation of laws, individuals whether civilian or military cannot take it upon themselves to decide which rules or laws they will obey, and when they will obey or disobey them.

It is also a fact not mentioned in the article that Colonel West understood full well that what he was doing was pragmatic, but illegal. It was Colonel West himself who "ratted him out" after the fact.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I served in the Air Force, 1985-89. I used to think that military service should be mandatory for everyone once they graduated high school or college, but now I have changed my mind. Why drag someone off to the military, kicking and screaming, that doesn't want to go? They will only cause problems and lower the effectiveness of their squadron or company.

That statement is an insult to every draftee who served prior to the abolution of the draft.

It is also inaccurate and absolutely false.

 

[blacksuit]

vet

I am 27, I served 6 years as a M1A1 tanker. To much time away from home and the family...had to go

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Why drag someone off to the military, kicking and screaming

I don't remember the "dragging" part. Most of us went in shuffling and grumbling. I don't recall the wording of the invitation, but it started out "Greetings" and ended with a signature "Lyndon Johnson".

"kicking and screaming" was taught by drill sergeants as a block of instruction otherwise known as "hand-to-hand combat".

Guys who enlisted Regular Army didn't seem to do any better or worse than us draftees, either in performance or attitude. Same with AR and NG.

I probably wouldn't have enlisted, but overall I'm glad I had that experience. So the draft was ok by me. I served with the REMF's.

Regards.

 

[KC&97TA]

Sgt USMC Active, just over 6 years, with about 14 months in combat. Currently sitting on 2nd tour, be back in Cali in about a week. btw, I'm 24, most of my guys on the first tour weren't old enough to drink.

First tour was fun, the only thing I'd complain about is the constant ringing of the ears, night mares and haveing to zip up 1 of my boys. Other wise, you can't pay for this kind of excitement... Send me back to a Regimental Combat Team and yell out " Engineers UP ! "

This second tour isn't worth mentioning, lets just say I'd rather tell my buddys I'm in jail for soliciting a transgender

 

[Biker]

Sgt USMC Active, just over 6 years, with about 14 months in combat. Currently sitting on 2nd tour, be back in Cali in about a week. btw, I'm 24, most of my guys on the first tour weren't old enough to drink.

First tour was fun, the only thing I'd complain about is the constant ringing of the ears, night mares and haveing to zip up 1 of my boys. Other wise, you can't pay for this kind of excitement... Send me back to a Regimental Combat Team and yell out " Engineers UP ! "

This second tour isn't worth mentioning, lets just say I'd rather tell my buddys I'm in jail for soliciting a transgender

Transgender?

Come on man, ya gotta finish that story!
Biker

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Regarding mandatory service; I support some of Heinlein's views. Voluntary service; in military or CCC-type work, will give you full rights as a citizen when you join (17, 18). Everybody else waits til 21. I know that's not quite what he wrote, and it's an over-simplification of the concept- oh well.

That is simple but a pretty good idea. More of an encentive program than a requirement.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

First tour was fun, the only thing I'd complain about is the constant ringing of the ears, night mares and haveing to zip up 1 of my boys. Other wise, you can't pay for this kind of excitement... Send me back to a Regimental Combat Team and yell out " Engineers UP ! "

This second tour isn't worth mentioning, lets just say I'd rather tell my buddys I'm in jail for soliciting a transgender

Hey Sgt,
Sorry to hear about zipping up your buddy. I know how that feels. It is awful even when you only knew them by rank much less personally. As for your second tour...can you say where you are and what you displike about it?

 

[thebucket]

It's been a little while since I was here last but in response to the original question, I am active Air Force right now and almost, finally (I've been in tech training long enough to get promoted), done with training and ready to move on to my duty station. I'll be working on F-16's!

 

[STAGE 2]

I started wondering...of the younger members here...how many are currently on active duty with the military in this time of great need? To those that are not or never have been I pose the question of why not?

Because joining the military is not the only way of serving ones country.

 

[Citadel99]

Currently on active duty at Fort Bragg--50th Signal Battalion. Got back from Iraq in August. Back to jumping out of airplanes and garrison life now.

Mark

 

[Double Maduro]

Exactly.

I wouldn't defend a country in which you couldn't burn the colors if you wanted to.

And I wouldn't have defended a country in which someone seeing you burn our flag couldn't and wouldn't do something about it.

DM

 

[RRTX]

I'm former active duty Army and just today got orders cut to change from IRR into the Reserves

 

[Biker]

And I wouldn't have defended a country in which someone seeing you burn our flag couldn't and wouldn't do something about it.

DM

Afraid I'm with ya there, Bro. I guess I'd have to excersise my right to civil disobedience and de-tooth a guy if I saw him burning the Flag. I might go to jail, but I've been there before. It'd be worth it.
Just because it's legal, don't make it right, and just because it's illegal, don't make it wrong.
1/84th FA 9th Inf Div, 1/1973- 9/1975
13 Bravo
Biker

 

[jshmata]

Age 37, 3 years New York Guard. Was almost too old to join the NY National Guard, now I am not (up to 40 I hear). Wife, kids, career, hard to leave that behind for active duty svc in the sandbox. I am pleased with my NY State Guard service. We back up the NY Nat'l Guard and do the best we can with limited resources.
12 Bravo SGT up for re-enlistment in August 06. Don't tell my wife I am going to do another three years again (unpaid).
John S.

 

[DorGunR]

I'm an old phart now but back then..............

22 years Army.......3 years in Nam.

 

[Jammer Six]

Afraid I'm with ya there, Bro.

Of course you are.

 

[Biker]

IIiiinnnnn...deed.
Biker

 

[Jammer Six]

No question.

Anything else would require thought, purpose, and principle, not to mention dedication and selflessness.

Now go to bed. Your boss is going to want you sharp in the morning, and the job market is international, now.

 

[chaim]

Like several others here I'm not a big fan of the idea that the only people who really serve their country are military and that nothing else really counts.

I the past 15 years (since I was 20) I have:
-been a member of the Maryland Defense Force (a state run civil defense organization using unpaid volunters)
-volunteered working with children in a special ed school
-volunteered working with teens for a couple years in a religious youth group (I got the group up and running)
-worked for a summer as a head counselor at a summer camp
-worked for 2 1/2 years as a substitute teacher (mostly long term assignments)
-been politically active (whether left or right, you are trying to make the country a better country, as you see it)
-voted in every election
-managed to get my degree while working at the same time
-spent many years contributing to society in various jobs
-today I work with the mentally ill, taking a $10K paycut from my prior job to do it since I have no experience in the field, while applying to MA programs in Counseling

I feel that I very much have served society and in so doing have served my country.

 

[Biker]

No question.

Anything else would require thought, purpose, and principle, not to mention dedication and selflessness.

Now go to bed. Your boss is going to want you sharp in the morning, and the job market is international, now.

Nope. No question. Honor trumps all BS, rhetoric be damned.
Biker

 

[chaim]

As for the meaning in this thread, I tried.

Out of high school I joined the Army Reserves with the plan to be in the Reserves while in college, then to go active for 20-30 years as an officer. Since I joined the Reserves in high school I was able to go to drills for about 8 months before I went to training (I don't know if they still allow it, but then if you joined the Reserves in high school you could drill as a member of the unit until you left for basic). I was all set, I was signed up for Airborne, and the unit was a Special Forces unit. I got to basic where it turned out I had a bad ankle and was discharged at the end of BCT.

A year later Desert Shield began and the "experts" were predicting casualities in the 10s of thousands as we were going up against the 3rd biggest army in the world, and it was a well trained and battle hardened army. I tried to get back in, but the recruiters couldn't find any loopholes- if you are discharged during training (ELS) you have to wait 2 years before they can give you a waiver to try again, and I had only been out for 1 year.

Just under a year later I decided to try my hand at a military college (Norwich). By then I was out of shape, but that wasn't too big a deal. However, after having had drill sergeants in the real Army who were Vietnam vets (and one Grenada vet), and even the youngest and least experienced drill sergeants had years in the Army, I couldn't take these kids, a year younger than me, seriously who's only qualifications were 2 years in a military college. If I had a little more maturity behind me I might have put up with it, but the loss of freedom for an entire year (they only gave 2 weekends off other than school vacations for first year students) was too much for me for a "system" I couldn't take seriously. So, my plan to prove myself in a military college and ROTC and hope that would be enough for the Army to know I could make it died when I decided that I couldn't take the school seriously and left.

Shortly therafter I got hopelessly out of shape.

Today I need to lose about 80LBS before I could go back. I am 35 with a bad back and ankles. At 19 I had a bad ankle that wouldn't let me finish. Still, if I manage to lose the weight and if that helps my back I will probably try to re-enlist into the Reserves or Army National Guard. Just today I wouldn't try Airborne or Combat Arms. I'd have to be realistic with my age and I'd go with where I could contribute the most anyway. My degree is in psychology, I will soon be in grad school to become a therapist, and my current job is in mental health. I'd go in as a mental health specialist. Still, if I do manage to get in the physical condition to do it, I'd probably have to fight the urge to join as an MP or Infantry.

 

[Common Tater]

USMC. USBP.