Serving your country.

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PlayboyPenguin said:
...beat your breast and waive the constituation...
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I don't get this one. There's not too many people on this board trying to waive the constitution. What the point you're making?

Regards.
 
Sleeping Dog said:
I don't get this one. There's not too many people on this board trying to waive the constitution. What the point you're making?

Regards.
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Really, you do not see all the people who post reponse like "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" or "ALL people" when trying to justify their stance on why felons, children, the mentally ill, etc. should be allowed to purchase handguns. These arguments are tired and weak. They hurt gunownership causes more than they help because if your only argument is the 2A it is very easy for opponents to question your patriotism if you do no form of public service. Therefore just making you look like a crazed gun nut (and I am afraid I feel the same about people who want violent felons, children ,etc. to be able to purchase).
 
PlayboyPenguin said:
I just felt that people that were so patriotic, almost rabidly in some posts, would WANT to serve their country in the most honorable and effective way. Activism is for after the war is over in my opinion.
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But we are talking about defending our rights at home and not those of foreign citizens?

I enlisted in the Army when I was 19. I was supposed to be sent to MEPPs the week after Cinco De Mayo. During the Cinco de Mayo party I shattered my knee. When I went down to the recruiter he politely called me a few names then told me I would not be able to attend MEPPs on crutches. I was on crutches for a long time. I am now in college and almost 5 years older. I am planning on transfering schools and becoming an LEO and maybe a lawyer. I am also going to look into the ROTC once I get into the school I want to go to.
 
To those that are not or never have been I pose the question of why not? Most on here seem to be very patriotic when it comes to the typed word.
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I got caught up in the post 9/11 wave of patriotism and considered enlisting in the reserves or national guard to take an active role in the 'war on terror'.

After a period of much soul searching and discovering what *I* believe though, I changed my mind.

I love America. I believe in the US Constitution. I fly the flag. I am not supportive, however, of American interventionism all over the world. This has been going on for over 100 years and I believe it is a huge mistake. From my reading, I gather that Jefferson and Washington are with me on this. From what I see on the news and paying attention to recent history, it seems to be getting worse.

Given that, I just can't serve as an implement of what I believe is misguided foreign policy. Neither do I believe that serving in the US Armed Forces (while honorable, noble and of a very proud heritage and tradition) is necessarily the most effective way of defending the US Constitution.

I can't even think of a conflict our armed forces have participated in in the last century that could be remotely considered a defense of the US Constitution.

So, what *do* I do to defend the Constitution and preseve liberty?:
  1. Read, learn history, study the phenomenon of the United States abandoning it's founding principals and warn my fellow citizens of the dangers of our decline into a socialist, globalist nation.
  2. Raise my daughter to be a thinker and a lover of God and Liberty.
  3. Practice the art of the rifle and make myself ready as an armed member of the US citizen militia.

I realize that position bothers a lot of good, patriotic Americans and really don't intend to offend anyone. I am very proud of American servicemen and wish I had been a Marine when I was younger and before I got to this point in my consciousness. You're a very proud bunch and you have my respect. In my view, it is gravely unjust that such a proud, honorable, respectable institution as the US Armed Forces could wind up commanded and directed by the mess that Washington DC has become.
 
NeonCowboy,

Neither do I believe that serving in the US Armed Forces (while honorable, noble and of a very proud heritage and tradition) is necessarily the most effective way of defending the US Constitution.

I can't even think of a conflict our armed forces have participated in in the last century that could be remotely considered a defense of the US Constitution.
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It isn't just about defending the Constitution. It is also about defending the people.

As for conflicts, what about the 2nd world war, especially the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor and mainland US and the subsequent war with Japan?

By the way, a strong person, or country, that doesn't help a weaker friend or neighbor is neither strong nor a friend.

Fortunately for you and all those who choose not to serve in the armed forces, people before you have made it possible for you to sit and study and teach and to make that choice. If it wasn't for the U.S. getting involved in some of the conflicts we have, your life and choices may be quite different.

I mean no offense to you either, and am not especially upset that you have chosen not to serve in the armed forces. Fortunately we have many brave, dedicated, patriotic people who have chosen to serve.

DM
 
DUH!
I left the airport, on my way home after posting that and forgot the single most important thing I do to protect/defend our freedoms:

I vote! I participate in the process. I call my representatives and senators. I contribute to parties and to lobbyists. I ask other people to vote and get them to think about the issues and the candidates.

We are very fortunate to be able to participate in the political process and owe a great deal to our founding fathers for designing this republic.
 
It isn't just about defending the Constitution. It is also about defending the people.

As for conflicts, what about the 2nd world war, especially the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor and mainland US and the subsequent war with Japan?
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The one where Roosevelt baited the Japanese into attacking the Pacific fleet and deliberately withheld forewarning from the troops in Hawaii, giving us a pretext for war with Japan?

I'll concede that our interests (the stability of Eurpoe and crushing Naziism) were worth fighting for in WWII. After that, American history isn't exactly littered with examples of America defending either Americans or the Constitution...though there are plenty of examples of the opposite. (Prohibition, NFA Act of 1934, McCarthyism, state sponsored racism in the Jim Crow south, the war on [people who use some] drugs, gun control act of 1968 and the rise of the ATF, etc)

By the way, a strong person, or country, that doesn't help a weaker friend or neighbor is neither strong nor a friend.
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And a strong person who uses their influence to arm and empower one side vs. another in armed conflicts can expect to make plenty of enemies.
 
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Serving Our Country

I saw a great banner @ the SHOT Show yesterday, in which several military members were depicted. The banner read on top "If you can read this, thank a Teacher." On the bottom it read, "If you can read this in English, thank our Military".

Many thanks to all who HAVE served, and thanks to those who WILL serve.
 
PlayboyPenguin said:
Odysseus...the point was here 5 minutes ago...you just missed it.:D My whole point (besides taing a minute to hear from all the vets of the board and get them a little kudos) is that unless you are actively defending your country you better be able to come up with something better than quoting the 2A and singing god bless america when defending your gun rights. Makes you patriotism just look like a smoke screen for what most people see as just a violent desire to "blow things away". Alot of the people I know always ask "if these people care so much about the constitution then why aren't they fighting when the country needs them most?"
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Troll. Lordy.

Some of us (a goodly portion, I would imagine) were of age to serve only POST Vietnam and were too old to enlist for the Persian Gulf foray.

Since the Founding Fathers themselves believed that citizen soldiers and not standing armies were the way to handle things, your above statements are both specious and offensive. Especially when seen in the light that this country was founded on the recognition that EVERY single citizen has the God given right to express any opinion on any subject they see fit to express it on. I am just curious on the subject of military service: Did you take an oath to defend your country and it's Constitution or did they let you slip past that little initiation ceremony? And if you did, how do you explain the following quote from one of your own previous messages?

Thanks for the welcome and for the nod...but I do not believe every person does have a right to be armed. I know every supreme court decisions agrees with me also. As far as some people considering it a "god given right" there is no such thing. Any right you enjoy in organized society is granted by your fellow man.
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(PlayboyPenguin) That's you, btw.

Just how do you defend and support a document who you claim not to even believe? The people who penned the Constitution made VERY clear what they were trying to erect and provide for the preservation of. Then again, what should I expect from someone who considers the Federalist Papers to be "biased political publications"?:banghead:
 
jeff-10 said:
PlayboyPenguin you may not have noticed because most people don't post about there military service but THR has a high number of active duty military and veterans who post on the forum. There may be a handful of loudmouths who spout that stuff in the legal and politics section who have never served but on the rest of the boards you will find quite a few who have in the past or are currently serving.
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I see. Anyone who is so horribly vocal as to use his/her God given right to speak their mind without having been an active member in the military service is "spouting"...of course. They have never served their country by working hard and paying the taxes that keep the military afloat...none of them have raised children to be decent, hard working adults themselves...non of them have worked with young people to keep them away from drugs and crime...and none of them were of age to serve only in those in-between years of armed conflict between Vietnam and the Persian Gulf. None of them understand the concept of the FF's intentions of no standing army during peace time, of the citizen soldier always on call.

Sooo sorry to take up "your" air in "your" country, or pay taxes for "your" benefit, raising kids who will pay THEIR taxes for "your" country, be decent upstanding citizens in "your" country, and helping keep other people's kids out of trouble in "your" country. Also sooo sorry for "spouting" on "your" forum on "your" internet.

If you simply MUST know, my Dad (who shed blood in Korea) and my Dad's brother (who shed blood and bled blood on some islands in the South Pacific AND did time as a POW) advised me against joining the military during peacetime. Either would have disowned me had I shirked during time of war, but neither thought it was the right thing to do during peace. Then again, perhaps they were just "spouting" too.

BTW...please refer me to the Article or Section in the Constitution that proscribes me from holding both deep beliefs and a love for this country if I never served in a miliatary posting. I'd like to read it.

Edited after futher thought on the matter:

Just a question for curiosity's sake. Wondering if you ever found yourself during your military stint doing time armed in an area of open hostility with NO hope of reinforcements if the SHTF? I do know that in following the intent of the FF's citizen soldier thinking, I found myself, two days out of the hospital from heart surgery, bandages and stitches still very much in place, sitting on my back patio after a visit from a lady named Katrina. Good vantage point with the scoped .308 I had across my lap watching my neighbors' houses, while knowing they were also doing the same for me. Some VERY open hostilities going on around here during that time. Was serving my country in the militia as it was intended. On second thought, I withdraw my above apologies. Not only am I NOT sorry, I'll continue to "spout". Thanks anyway.
 
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Having served for a long time, I think it's perfectly OK for others to choose another path in life. There aren't enough boat spaces for everybody to do a stint in the military, anyway.

I don't think that having served should confer any "super citizen" status, besides the legally mandated benefits. Not serving shouldn't incur any sort of penalty or denegration.

I once had a guy on another forum call me a "Welfare Bunny" because I used the GI Bill to attend college. In his case it was a question of "Mind over matter"....I didn't mind because he didn't matter.

I wish our society took the responsibilities of citizenship more seriously. Voting shouldn't be looked upon as a pointless exercise. People should attend local gov't meetings and observe their judges/DA's in the courtroom instead of relying blindly upon a fickle/feckless press to report the highlights that they want you to see/hear. Our present gov't at any level isn't really "representative" because of widespread apathy. That could be easily fixed.

OK, rant off.
 
I'm here to recruit (if you want to be recruited)

This has been really interesting reading.
I enlisted at 17. US Army 1965-1968, IRR til 1971. Truckdriver- 64C40 -
never in combat.
Got out, went to College under GI Bill. The only way I was able to.
Anyway. After 9/11 I was pissed and didn't know how to help.
Found many opportunities, just like Chaim.
In California and many other states are State Defense Forces that supplement the DHS and in California's case we are a division of the CANG.
Our mission is to support the CANG as trainers and back-up when they are deployed. We have been busy and the fun is being able to contribute to the War on Terror as best we can.
In our state we are actively recruiting both prior service and people who have not been in the military but would like to serve.
We aren't a front line organization. As I said we provide the Common Task Training skills to help the soldiers be ready for deployment.
We need all types of MOS experience and sometimes the needed skills are not entirely military.
Our section is a Provost Marshal unit, we also have personnel, supply, signal, JAG, Medical, and Chaplains.
Last year I had over 500 hours of duty. Half of it on Paid Active Duty.
We are not held to the same physical requirements as the Regular Army. we do have height and weight restrictions.
The point is we need enthusiastic people who what to help the Cause and have fun too! These are some of the finest people I have ever met and it is with pride that I am able to serve again.

Many states have similar forces. I am extending an invitation to all California members of this forum to feel free to contact me with any questions.
This may be something you would like to do. We welcome you.

[email protected] OR [email protected]
 
Sleeping Dog said:
I don't recall the wording of the invitation, but it started out "Greetings" and ended with a signature "Lyndon Johnson".
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Mine started out, Greetings from the President of The United States.

DM
 
5 years in and signed up for another five, yes jackass they let you pick how many years as long as its between four and six.

SRA USAF
 
USN 1987-1995, nuclear submarine officer. Back in the 80s I'd read The Hunt for Red October, and was all fired up and excited about going and doing secret submarine stuff. I wanted to be on the "front lines" and all that, such as it was in the 1980s. It didn't work out the way I envisioned, but I'm still very glad I did it. The experiences I had shaped me and largely made me who and what I am now. Like many people who served, I think I was an under-achiever before I went in. After training and serving in an operational submarine for a few years, and the USN nuclear power training program, I finally developed into a much more responsible person and I think was able to realize a lot more of my potential.

Kind of ironic about how things turned out. When I entered the Navy, Reagan was still President. After a couple of years of nuclear power and submarine training (2 years of training before you even set foot on a submarine, and when you get there you're not allowed to even flush the toilet lest you sink the boat! Have to be re-trained on EVERYTHING onboard), I finally made it to the fleet and was out on patrol on my ship (USS Francis Scott Key) in August 1990 when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Desert Storm and what we call Gulf War I was I think a totally unprecedented thing. Within the next year or so, the USSR collapsed, and a year after that my ship got decommissioned 5 years early because we didn't need 30+ ballistic missile submarines anymore. By that time with Clinton in office a lot of people seriously said we hardly needed a military anymore, and by 1995 we went from 130 submarines to about 40 or 50. By then I'd met the woman who I later married, and I wasn't keen on going out on patrol for 3-6 months at a time anymore (no mail or email back then, either!) so I got out and changed careers.

I empathize with the posters who wanted to serve, and had either an injury or a medical problem, or something else beyond their control, prevent them from serving. A couple of years ago I felt a real need to do something, and seriously looked into joining the Army National Guard. But, at 42 years old with a wife, a house, a career that I invested almost 15 years in developing, and no Army experience, I had to come to grips that I'm just too old for it now. I frankly can't afford the 60% or more pay cut that going active duty would cost me (I have $ responsibilities now, that I didn't have 20 years ago!). It's not like we have reserve submarines that I could use my previous training on. Oh well.

Here's to all of you serving now! God bless you and keep you safe.
 
Our military is staffed by the best, the bravest, and the brightest. And that's fine with me. I want the guy standing next to my grandson in Aphganistan to be the best we have so they'll both get back home.
 
I have a patriotic signature line but I am not in the military, that said I tried to enlist in the Army but was unable to for medical reasons unfornatly. So I have found other ways to serve this great country I currently work as a 911 dispatcher with an eventual goal of being a Law Enforcement Officer.
 
Patriotism seems pretty corny to me. Why should I feel like I have to stand up for a country, just because that is where I live? It would make more sense to be able to enlist any any nations army, depending on whom you would side with, rather than letting geography decide.
That being said, I would not give my life for anyone's soil. My family would be the only thing I would give my life for.
 
I'm not in the military because...
A. I'm not fond of others telling me what to do :)D)
B. I have things I'd rather do with my life that go to Iraq for 4+ years
C. The war in Iraq is not a justifiable one in my opinion and while the government apparently thinks it is, I think it would be strange to get killed for something 80% of the country doesn't
D. For some, the military is a dead end job
E. I have a ton of options, to a certain extent I feel that going the service limits you to what they want you to do.

I do see it strange though that you are challenging THR to why they aren't military? There are thousands of ways to serve your country outside the military. Does the country function without police? firefighters? postmen? doctors? mechanics? computer nerds? Basically if you have a job, you support the country in some way. And if you don't/can't/won't, you are still part of the system.

Why did I write this, this post is only 3 years old, o well, post it anyway.
 
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