possum
Member
welcome to thr, go with the walther or the glock an you will be good to go.
several months of research and I'm down to a list of 7
- Thread starter Hubster
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, this much research and I still have a list of 7. I'm a reasearcher - that's what I do. I've learned a great deal and ruled out many more than seven guns.
As far as experience goes, I'm 41 years old, raised in the country shooting rifles and handguns, and spent six years in the army where I fired expert with both my M-16 and Colt 45. I've owned a S&W 38 revolver with four inch barrel for many years. I have not had any experience shooting the smaller "pocket" guns.
I do intend to pocket carry with a holster and had pretty much decided on the 642, but my sister works in law enforcement and she is strongly encouraging me to get a semi automatic over the revolver, especially seeing how I already have a revolver. I definitely plan to buy something in the next few days, and I guess I can always purchase more if I need to, but I really want to make the best choice first.
As far as experience goes, I'm 41 years old, raised in the country shooting rifles and handguns, and spent six years in the army where I fired expert with both my M-16 and Colt 45. I've owned a S&W 38 revolver with four inch barrel for many years. I have not had any experience shooting the smaller "pocket" guns.
I do intend to pocket carry with a holster and had pretty much decided on the 642, but my sister works in law enforcement and she is strongly encouraging me to get a semi automatic over the revolver, especially seeing how I already have a revolver. I definitely plan to buy something in the next few days, and I guess I can always purchase more if I need to, but I really want to make the best choice first.
streakr
Member
642!!! Good wheel guns never fail.
s
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woad_yurt
Member
You mentioned the LCP but not the P3AT, which I have. So, it seems that the .380 round itself is ok with you. My friend has an LCP and it's a bit thicker than the P3AT; his shows a little in the pocket while mine doesn't. His has also jammed a bit at the range, enough to make me cautious about betting my safety on one. Check out a P3AT before you decide. Mine's a flawless performer. No jams at all since I've owned it. I carry it without a holster in my right front pants pocket all the time and when I go to the range, it'll have lint and dust on it from a month or two in my pocket. It always works fine. I then clean it and carry it until I want to brush up again, skill-wise, at the range. Anyway, that's been my experience with it. It's the smallest, lightest pistol around that packs a decent punch.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I only own one of the guns on your list, the M642. (but I have fired 5 of them) I think you know which I would suggest you buy...
florida1098
Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2008
- Messages
- 66
Don't ever believe wheel guns never fail. Just look through these forums and you will see just about every type of problem with them. Timing, cylinders that don't turn, light firing pins, hammers that won't cycle, and dirt and grease fouling things up. I own two 340pd's and a model 19 and 64, but my only carry is Glock. IMO they are more reliable than revolvers. I have never seen one not go bang and have seen revolvers that did'nt while on the range in NY.
I also like the fact there is no manual safety levers on the Glock to worry about. When I put my finger on the trigger all I want to concentrate on is the situation at hand, not did I remove all safety devices. To each their own, it's just sems wrong to tell someone revolvers never fail. I do agree the 340pd is easier to carry than Glock 26/27 but those extra rounds and reliability seal the deal for me 99% of the time. I had a 642, but the weight compared to the 340pd seemed significant to me.
I also like the fact there is no manual safety levers on the Glock to worry about. When I put my finger on the trigger all I want to concentrate on is the situation at hand, not did I remove all safety devices. To each their own, it's just sems wrong to tell someone revolvers never fail. I do agree the 340pd is easier to carry than Glock 26/27 but those extra rounds and reliability seal the deal for me 99% of the time. I had a 642, but the weight compared to the 340pd seemed significant to me.
If anything, the fact that you already have a .38cal revolver would lead me to think that by getting a 642, you would be able to keep things nice and simple with only one type of ammo. If you buy a 9mm or .380, you'll have yet another caliber to stock up on.
Just a thought.
weisse52
Member
I have to agree, if you have a .38 revolver now then a 642 makes sense. You are use to the action, and you have common ground for ammo.
As the argument that a Glock is un-safe. Not sure I agree, not sure I disagree. You can look the facts and figures up, but I am fairly
sure that there have been more ND / AD with Glocks than with a revolver with a fairly heavy double action only.
Yes, a pocket holster makes them safer, but again, research has shown for a Glock most ND occur when holstering the firearm.
And one last thing. I am 6'3" and 240. I have tried a Glock 26 in a pocket holster. It was not comfortable. But that is just my opinion. WAY too lumpy..If you go with the Glock, go with IWB or OWB.
As the argument that a Glock is un-safe. Not sure I agree, not sure I disagree. You can look the facts and figures up, but I am fairly
sure that there have been more ND / AD with Glocks than with a revolver with a fairly heavy double action only.
Yes, a pocket holster makes them safer, but again, research has shown for a Glock most ND occur when holstering the firearm.
And one last thing. I am 6'3" and 240. I have tried a Glock 26 in a pocket holster. It was not comfortable. But that is just my opinion. WAY too lumpy..If you go with the Glock, go with IWB or OWB.
Bennett Prescott
Member
I fail to see how that can be considered the gun's fault. If the holstering user is an idiot and puts their fingers where they don't belong, and shoots themselves, well... it was only a matter of time.weisse52 said:
Where do we stop with this "heavier trigger pull"? Should I get a 10lb trigger? 15? After all, I'm trying to make the gun safer... at some point, of course, I will be unable to fire it.
Let's put the blame back where it belongs. Improper holstering of a weapon (really, breaking one of the rules of safety) can cause a negligent discharge from nearly any firearm. If some idiot is going to reholster with their finger on the trigger, we might as well assume they're going to reholster with the safety off on a cocked 1911 as well, so the model of pistol is really unimportant. The user is unsafe, a negligent discharge of their pistol is inevitable. Let's hope it happens when they're reholstering, at least then they'll shoot themselves out of stupidity, instead of me!
I have never seen facts and figures on negligent discharges of firearms. You obviously have access to this information, I would love to read it, where can I find it?
I would think if the LCP is on the list, the Keltec P3AT would be also. Both have about equal reliability as made and delivered now - not based on posts from much earlier in either's product cycle.
I think the bigger issue is carry - there is a substantial difference is the optimum carry from largest to smallest. That would be the next decision, then base an acquistion on that. If pocket, then a .380, if IWB, a 9MM.
Moving into actual carry will show what priorities you have, and give you real data not based on research. Some don't conform to Glock grips well, but like the carry - which makes up 90% of what you do with a firearm. Others want comfortable carry, but after some time on the range, insist on better performance.
It's just a firearm in that regard, choose one, learn from it, and then adapt to it or change the firearm. It's what we all wind up doing, and a lot of that is due to changes in lifestyle that negate previous conditions.
I think the bigger issue is carry - there is a substantial difference is the optimum carry from largest to smallest. That would be the next decision, then base an acquistion on that. If pocket, then a .380, if IWB, a 9MM.
Moving into actual carry will show what priorities you have, and give you real data not based on research. Some don't conform to Glock grips well, but like the carry - which makes up 90% of what you do with a firearm. Others want comfortable carry, but after some time on the range, insist on better performance.
It's just a firearm in that regard, choose one, learn from it, and then adapt to it or change the firearm. It's what we all wind up doing, and a lot of that is due to changes in lifestyle that negate previous conditions.
Gordon Fink
Member
leadcounsel said:
I wouldn’t recommend a Glock for pocket carry either, but it would be perfectly safe in a proper holster.
~G. Fink
benderx4
Member
Kel-tec PF9 - Kinda big for pocket, not known for its reliability/quality
Kahr PM9 - people either love or hate these things - you can find plenty of internet threads on both
Walther PPS - still fairly new but I loved the one I handled at the gun shop - great reviews too! Skinny.
S&W 642 - Hard to argue with this baby, it's a S&W and it goes BANG every single time
Glock 26 - VERY reliable but many folks don't feel comfortable carrying it chambered
CZ 2075 rami - Way cool gun, but kinda heavy and blocky for a pocket gun. (Kinda like a XD-9sc)
Ruger LCP - new kid on the block, still working out some bugs, VERY concealable but only a .380
Final Thoughts: If these are your choices, I'd go with the S & W, Walther, or Glock. Shoot those 3 a bunch and then buy the one you feel most comfortable with. (Personally, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a snubbie revolver but my son is deadly with it.)
Final final thought: If money is no object, find yourself a nice used HK P7 and be done with this nonsense!
Kahr PM9 - people either love or hate these things - you can find plenty of internet threads on both
Walther PPS - still fairly new but I loved the one I handled at the gun shop - great reviews too! Skinny.
S&W 642 - Hard to argue with this baby, it's a S&W and it goes BANG every single time
Glock 26 - VERY reliable but many folks don't feel comfortable carrying it chambered
CZ 2075 rami - Way cool gun, but kinda heavy and blocky for a pocket gun. (Kinda like a XD-9sc)
Ruger LCP - new kid on the block, still working out some bugs, VERY concealable but only a .380
Final Thoughts: If these are your choices, I'd go with the S & W, Walther, or Glock. Shoot those 3 a bunch and then buy the one you feel most comfortable with. (Personally, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a snubbie revolver but my son is deadly with it.)
Final final thought: If money is no object, find yourself a nice used HK P7 and be done with this nonsense!
weisse52
Member
As to ND and Glock. When I have access to the Internet on something other than my Blackberry I will hunt it down.
OR just Google Glock and ND / AD and then start wading through the fact and fiction.
Now the "rest" of the Glock faithful can wade in to tell me how wrong this is. I am going back to work.
OR just Google Glock and ND / AD and then start wading through the fact and fiction.
Now the "rest" of the Glock faithful can wade in to tell me how wrong this is. I am going back to work.
MICHAEL T
Member
Well I hope if time comes to need a gun you don't take that long to decide .
How long on ammo choice 2years
Get the S&W snub load it and be done opps I forgot we ain't to ammo selection are we Good luck
How long on ammo choice 2years
Get the S&W snub load it and be done opps I forgot we ain't to ammo selection are we
Good luckJosh Aston
Member
I was going to suggest either the 642 or the Kahr PM9. Seeing as you already have a Smith revolver, I'd go with the 642. Keep things simple.
jad0110
Member
While some are able to pocket carry a Glock, that is likely the exception, not the rule. Glocks are fine firearms, but people call them "Blocks" for a reason. As someone else said, pocket carrying a Glock is similar to carrying a paperback novel.
IMHO, "baby" Glocks are not true pocket guns. If pocket carry is going to be your primary method of carry, then a dedicated pocket gun is in order.
The S&W J Frame and Taurus small frame revolvers are generally considered the upper limit in size for pocket carry. Ruger's SP101 works too, though it is a tad heavy. And the tiny Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP etc completely vanish in the pocket. Perhaps too well: one reason why I prefer a J frame for pocket carry is it does have a prominent grip that is easier to find and grab properly in a hurry than the tiny LCP or Kel-Tec. The rounded backstrap of the enclosed and shrouded hammer snubs also facilitates reliable, snag free draws.
In that regard, even if a Glock can fit in your pocket, I kinda doubt it is as quick and easy to draw as something like a S&W x42. Again, not knocking Glocks. I just think they are better suited to carry IWB or OWB.
But in the end, you have to able to shoot the gun, or it just won't serve you well. Snubs can be a challenge to shoot. So can tiny automatics. So try them out and see what works best. For the record, I shoot snubs better than small autos, but you may be different.
IMHO, "baby" Glocks are not true pocket guns. If pocket carry is going to be your primary method of carry, then a dedicated pocket gun is in order.
The S&W J Frame and Taurus small frame revolvers are generally considered the upper limit in size for pocket carry. Ruger's SP101 works too, though it is a tad heavy. And the tiny Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP etc completely vanish in the pocket. Perhaps too well: one reason why I prefer a J frame for pocket carry is it does have a prominent grip that is easier to find and grab properly in a hurry than the tiny LCP or Kel-Tec. The rounded backstrap of the enclosed and shrouded hammer snubs also facilitates reliable, snag free draws.
In that regard, even if a Glock can fit in your pocket, I kinda doubt it is as quick and easy to draw as something like a S&W x42. Again, not knocking Glocks. I just think they are better suited to carry IWB or OWB.
But in the end, you have to able to shoot the gun, or it just won't serve you well. Snubs can be a challenge to shoot. So can tiny automatics. So try them out and see what works best. For the record, I shoot snubs better than small autos, but you may be different.
Felonious Monk
Member
Just a few things I don't see addressed so far:
1) Price of ammo: 9mm is the cheapest of all calibers you're considering.
2) Flexibility: Several Carbines come in 9mm. .357 too, some others.
3) IMO, Glock=Block. YMMV.
4) I've owned the Kahr (MK9) and it is well made, but for carry, see #3.
5) 9mm and .380 are the same size diameter, so pick the one you can control.
6) That brings it down to the PF9 for me.
I own the P3AT and like the Ruger LDP too. My wife still carries a P32, and shoots it SCARY well, but is NOT comfy with a more potent caliber. Placement is primo. My daughter carries an LDP.
The extra oomph and cheaper ammo trumps it for me PERSONALLY.
PF9.
You can thank me later.
1) Price of ammo: 9mm is the cheapest of all calibers you're considering.
2) Flexibility: Several Carbines come in 9mm. .357 too, some others.
3) IMO, Glock=Block. YMMV.
4) I've owned the Kahr (MK9) and it is well made, but for carry, see #3.
5) 9mm and .380 are the same size diameter, so pick the one you can control.
6) That brings it down to the PF9 for me.
I own the P3AT and like the Ruger LDP too. My wife still carries a P32, and shoots it SCARY well, but is NOT comfy with a more potent caliber. Placement is primo. My daughter carries an LDP.
The extra oomph and cheaper ammo trumps it for me PERSONALLY.
PF9.
You can thank me later.
I'd suggest the 642 also. You're familiar with the manual of arms for a wheelgun, no suprises there. It's easy to pocket carry or IWB, and can easily make the transition to the ankle as a BUG if you get something larger to belt carry later. And I hear there are even some available without the Clinton lock now.
Orange_Magnum
member
Keep studying.
thebaldguy
Member
Start with the 642; then do some more research and pick a semi-auto.
iiibdsiil
Member
I'd scratch the PM9 off and replace it with the MK9. I haven't had the pleasure of handling a PM9, but it seems that there are a lot more complaints with that vs the MK9. I would never think about complaining about the weight of the MK9, and with a good belt I don't even notice it.
LongRider
Member
You did not have an XD on your list. You may want to read these links to XD article if you have not seen them.
XD Torture test
SPRINGFIELD'S XD SUB-COMPACT GOES HIGH-CAP
SPRINGFIELD'S XD GOES THE DISTANCE
THE XD EXTREME DUTY SERVICE AUTO PISTOL
SPRINGFIELD'S .45 GAP XD TACTICAL PISTOL
SPRINGFIELD XD .40 SUB-COMPACT
SPRINGFIELD'S X-TREME DUTY POLYMER POWERHOUSE
The XD Goes ACP
SPRINGFIELD'S SUB-COMPACT XD
Springfield's XD Keeps On Growing
SPRINGFIELD'S XD GETS LITTLE
Springfield's XD .45
SPRINGFIELD GOES POLYMER
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD SERIES
Sizing Down, Powering Up
A FAIR SHARE OF ABUSE
My real life experience with an XD has shown that not one claim in those articles is over stated or exaggerated in anyway.
Being old I never ever thought I'd be shooting tupperware much less praising it but after carrying guns for the better part of thirty years I can not imagine a better EDC for me. Now the XD isn't a beauty queen and you can get lots of prettier guns than an XD. There are even some that are more accurate. But there are none that are more reliable or better suited for EDC than an XD.45. IMO the XD.45 compact is the best Self Defense Every Day Carry gun there is, bar none. With well over 2,500 rounds through it without a single FTF. I know it is Rock Solid Reliable. Hits everything I point it at. Eats everything I feed it. Simple to clean & maintain. The grip and trigger safeties are natural and intuitive. No manual safety to confuse matters or cause a delay when nano seconds count, make it ideal for self defense. Just my opinion.
XD Torture test
SPRINGFIELD'S XD SUB-COMPACT GOES HIGH-CAP
SPRINGFIELD'S XD GOES THE DISTANCE
THE XD EXTREME DUTY SERVICE AUTO PISTOL
SPRINGFIELD'S .45 GAP XD TACTICAL PISTOL
SPRINGFIELD XD .40 SUB-COMPACT
SPRINGFIELD'S X-TREME DUTY POLYMER POWERHOUSE
The XD Goes ACP
SPRINGFIELD'S SUB-COMPACT XD
Springfield's XD Keeps On Growing
SPRINGFIELD'S XD GETS LITTLE
Springfield's XD .45
SPRINGFIELD GOES POLYMER
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD SERIES
Sizing Down, Powering Up
A FAIR SHARE OF ABUSE
My real life experience with an XD has shown that not one claim in those articles is over stated or exaggerated in anyway.
Being old I never ever thought I'd be shooting tupperware much less praising it but after carrying guns for the better part of thirty years I can not imagine a better EDC for me. Now the XD isn't a beauty queen and you can get lots of prettier guns than an XD. There are even some that are more accurate. But there are none that are more reliable or better suited for EDC than an XD.45. IMO the XD.45 compact is the best Self Defense Every Day Carry gun there is, bar none. With well over 2,500 rounds through it without a single FTF. I know it is Rock Solid Reliable. Hits everything I point it at. Eats everything I feed it. Simple to clean & maintain. The grip and trigger safeties are natural and intuitive. No manual safety to confuse matters or cause a delay when nano seconds count, make it ideal for self defense. Just my opinion.
Well boys (and girls) my decision has been made. After the research and visiting both a gun show and a firing range, I've decided to purchase both a S&W 642 and a Kel-tec PF9. I think it gives me what I need. I do sincerely appreciate all of the suggestions.
Oh, and by the way, research is a good thing! Those that questioned the depth of my research maybe should reconsider. Knowledge is a good thing!
Thanks again for all the help. Stay safe out there.
Oh, and by the way, research is a good thing! Those that questioned the depth of my research maybe should reconsider. Knowledge is a good thing!
Thanks again for all the help. Stay safe out there.
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