Shaking things up at S&W?

[BCCL]

Just got posted online, Mike Golden is stepping down as CEO after Smith & Wesson's stock has plummeted 27% this year.

 

[Old Fuff]

I know nothing... NOTHING!!!!

However they're last quarter report was fairly positive and upbeat, and so far as the company's stock price is concerned, for all practical purposes the whole stock market has (and continues) to crash.

 

[The Sarge]

I wonder if Mr. Golden has a Golden Parachute ?

 

[Ranger30-06]

Maybe we can get a CEO in that sees the value in steel frame pistols? *cough3rdgenerationscough*

 

[Owen]

if the third gens were selling enough to keep the capital tied up in the production line, they would still be making them.

 

[Ranger30-06]

if the third gens were selling enough to keep the capital tied up in the production line, they would still be making them.

Remember that they ditched the third gens for the Sigma series, which for the most part was a complete failure and filed for copyright infringement by Glock. :banghead:

They should have developed the M&P series, but kept at least some of the 3rd gens in production. It would have been great to have seen more updated options out on the market. Weight and solid steel IS desired by a lot of us...

 

[Plan2Live]

Count me in on bringing back the all metal 3rd gens. I'm eyeballing a brand new, never sold CS9 right now. The price is north of $600 and I will still probably do it. I have cherished my 459 for the past 26 years. I still prefer all steel, DA/SA and a decocker up on the slide that lets the hammer go all the way down. Just my preference.

 

[Hossfly68]

I'd be happy if they could get somebody who believes in customer service. The wife's ccw is in their shop for the 3rd time. Got it back the first 2 times with no remarks on the sheet and nothing fixed!

 

[fastbolt]

I became a reluctant convert to the 3rd gen guns, being issued one of the early production models as a new firearms instructor. I later went on to become an armorer, eventually attending 4 pistol armorer classes for the 3rd gen's (among many other classes).

I'd like to see them bring them back into commercial production.

However ... and this is a pretty big however ... whatever the aficionados may say among various online forums, the sales just weren't there.

The plastic guns continued to take up ever more market share, while people less and less inclined to pay the freight for the more costly (manufacturing) metal-framed TDA guns.

Sig Sauer and Beretta are seemingly sharing a somewhat similar experience, with their increasing emphasis on developing plastic pistols that will sell well to their LE/Gov customers.

When you can pop a plastic frame out of a mold every 85 seconds (according to Glock in my last armorer recert class), and then have it take 30 minutes to have the CNC equipment make a frame for a TSW (according to someone from S&W with whom I was talking), investment in cost/time for the metal gun is going to be more expensive with the metal guns.

That doesn't take into consideration the in-house work that's required to complete the various small machined parts (some smaller parts are received from vendors and then receive final machining at S&W), or the hand-fitting done (fitting extractors, sear release levers and attaching the trigger play springs to drawbars).

The SW1911 line has become profitable for the company in the commercial market, but even then they've been pretty quick to discontinue different models which reflected decreased sales, even over relatively short time periods (as these things have been tracked by corporate).

I'd like to see the 3913 come back, myself, with the accessory rail as an option (or at least machined integral to the frame). I'd really like to see them make a steel-framed compact version, and call it a 3916.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

 

[Ranger30-06]

I became a reluctant convert to the 3rd gen guns, being issued one of the early production models as a new firearms instructor. I later went on to become an armorer, eventually attending 4 pistol armorer classes for the 3rd gen's (among many other classes).

I'd like to see them bring them back into commercial production.

However ... and this is a pretty big however ... whatever the aficionados may say among various online forums, the sales just weren't there.

The plastic guns continued to take up ever more market share, while people less and less inclined to pay the freight for the more costly (manufacturing) metal-framed TDA guns.

Sig Sauer and Beretta are seemingly sharing a somewhat similar experience, with their increasing emphasis on developing plastic pistols that will sell well to their LE/Gov customers.

When you can pop a plastic frame out of a mold every 85 seconds (according to Glock in my last armorer recert class), and then have it take 30 minutes to have the CNC equipment make a frame for a TSW (according to someone from S&W with whom I was talking), investment in cost/time for the metal gun is going to be more expensive with the metal guns.

That doesn't take into consideration the in-house work that's required to complete the various small machined parts (some smaller parts are received from vendors and then receive final machining at S&W), or the hand-fitting done (fitting extractors, sear release levers and attaching the trigger play springs to drawbars).

The SW1911 line has become profitable for the company in the commercial market, but even then they've been pretty quick to discontinue different models which reflected decreased sales, even over relatively short time periods (as these things have been tracked by corporate).

I'd like to see the 3913 come back, myself, with the accessory rail as an option (or at least machined integral to the frame). I'd really like to see them make a steel-framed compact version, and call it a 3916.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

Call me loopy, but I think the market is significantly different now than in the '90's. Sorry to say it, but practically all polymer frame handguns look relatively the same: boxy. If S&W was to reintroduce the 3rd gens, it would see a different crowd go after it. That horrible extra couple ounces reduces recoil and allows faster follow up shots.

Police or not, they could at least produce them like their revolver series: produce enough to please the crowd and save the high production practices for the main money makers.

 

[InkEd]

Some people may want them but the mainstream is wanting polymer. That is why the M&P is successful for them. Get rid of the lousy ILS and watch sales go up in revolvers.

 

[fastbolt]

Call me loopy, but I think the market is significantly different now than in the '90's. Sorry to say it, but practically all polymer frame handguns look relatively the same: boxy. If S&W was to reintroduce the 3rd gens, it would see a different crowd go after it. That horrible extra couple ounces reduces recoil and allows faster follow up shots.

Police or not, they could at least produce them like their revolver series: produce enough to please the crowd and save the high production practices for the main money makers.

It was only in recent years (within 4-5 years?) that the 3rd gen's were finally dropped from the commercial catalog, not the 90's, although the "standard" (original 3rd gen) model line has been slowly diminishing for a few years before that, with the TSW's, the Chief's Special line and the American Heritage - formerly the Value Line - becoming the available model lines. It was supposedly in the middle 2000's when the market made them start to realize the 3rd gen guns weren't going to remain profitable enough for them to continue commercial sales of the metal TDA line.

They were still making some subtle refinements to the TSW line within the last 3-4 years, though, as I saw some of the changes come through in sequential deliveries of new guns at my former agency, and then later still in some new parts & assemblies.

It was last year when they decided to start moving 3rd gen production capability to their Houlton plant (which received an upgrade in equipment). Their handcuffs, .22's, licensed Walther PP's and the SW1911's were already being manufactured there. They can still make the 3rd gen guns for LE/Gov orders (if they can't influence existing agency customers to transition to the M&P's), and various people from the company have said that if they were to receive a large enough order from one of the major distributors, that they'd make the guns (which means a substantial number of guns).

Now, if one of the big distributors were to place an order for 25,000 guns, I suspect we'd be seeing some new guns hit the pipeline ... but the costs wouldn't exactly be in the "bargain" range, but more likely similar to the current pricing for Sig's.

Last time I looked at one of their annual sales reports, I thought they already had something like 40-43% of the US market in revolver sales. Their reportedly strongest selling revolver line, the J-frames, sell as fast as they can make them, as it is.

 

[Owen]

Remember that they ditched the third gens for the Sigma series, which for the most part was a complete failure and filed for copyright infringement by Glock.

No they didn't, those lines were running concurrently. The Sigmas came out in the late 80s. The thrid gen line was still chugging along when I left there in 2001.