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Sharpening a bullet

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by BayouBocephus, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. BayouBocephus

    BayouBocephus New Member

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    this is probably a ridiculous question and most likely could hurt yourself or something else but....if u sharpen a ball round for a handgun to a point would it aid in penetration or any other side effects??
     
  2. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Senior Member

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    the shape of the bullet has little or nothing to do with penetration. If anything sharp edged SWC's penetrate more than anything else

    The jacket could come off and get stuck in the bore possibly causing your firearm to explode on the next shot.
     
  3. 1858rem

    1858rem Senior Member

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    if you reload i dont see harm in trying unless its an auto, less likely to feed well then. factory ammo..... depends on how much material your removing, too much could change pressure significantly when not changing the powder load accordingly, i think:scrutiny:, also.. would it penetrate more b/c its sharper, or less b/c it has less weight/momentum?... do a wet phone book test, or another test is 3/4inch pine slates spaced 1 inch apart
     
  4. BayouBocephus

    BayouBocephus New Member

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    ok...i was thinking it might penetrate more because of the same pressure on a tighter point instead of a flatter,rounded nose
     
  5. 243winxb

    243winxb Senior Member

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    sharpen a ball round for a handgun DON'T TRY IT.

    It would make the bullet come apart more easly, not penetrate more. The bullet would no longer be accurate, unless turned in a lathe. Ball rounds can have lead exposed on the base, if the nose of the copper bullet is opened up, the pressure on firing can blow the lead out the barrel, leaving the copper jacket lodge in your barrel. IMO just a guess.
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    That's not a guess.
    That's a fact!

    BTW: Years ago they made a .357 Mag load called the Highway-Master.

    It was a soft lead swaged bullet with a sharp pointed jacket over the tip. It was supposed to shoot right through an automobile.

    It didn't work as well as a hard-cast SWC.
     
  7. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Senior Member

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    Question...How many of you have degrees in interior and exterior ballistics...I don't. I do read and experiment with the available bullets. I, however, will not redesign the manufactures bullet. In most cases it wouldn't work and in other cases could get someone hurt...To modify a bullet for self defense even if it doesn't work (like the cross or "X" carved across a bullet nose) it indicates you intended to do more harm then the bullet was intended to do.:rolleyes:
     
  8. spyder1911

    spyder1911 Member

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    The OP is not as far off as many people think. A normal bullet will not do much good when sharpened since lead is too soft, but using machined brass will have much different results. Enter the world of the THV bullet as pictured. Look it up, but great penetration against steel.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. mgregg85

    mgregg85 Senior Member

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    I always wondered if a sharpened piece of tool steel stuck tightly into a hollowpoint would adequately pierce armor. But I don't have a lathe or a bullet proof to test it on.
     
  10. Deavis

    Deavis Senior Member

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    that is not correct unless you specifically include a disclaimer that you are talking about a soft metal. Making a point will improve penetration because it concentrates the kenetic energy of the projectile in a very small area. A quick review of physics will tell you why that is a good thing.

    Penetrators are not flat and they are not soft.
     
  11. 243winxb

    243winxb Senior Member

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  12. Larry E

    Larry E Member

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    Many years ago a Canadian Army officer had an article published in Handloader magazine showing lathe turned hard brass or bronze bullets for handgun that were designed to penetrate armor. Of course those are now illegal.
     
  13. 243winxb

    243winxb Senior Member

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    Cartridge, 5.56mm, Armor Piercing (AP), M995

    http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/556mm_ammo.html Scroll down , see Armor Piercing. Nothing new.
     
  14. Remo-99

    Remo-99 Member

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    A lot of handgun rounds will tend to over penetrate intended targets, as handgun rounds don't have high velocities to distrupt the bullet nose upon impact and travel deep into soft tissue and ballistics gel, before they are stopped.

    High velocity rifle bullets on the otherhand, often pointed, deform easily transfering the energy of the bullet into the target causing massive tissue damage and not just push a hole through.

    Specialized penetrating bullets use a very hard metal core, so it's not deformed easily, with a long thin profile to use kinetic energy which is focused, like others have said, onto a smaller point.

    If you want more penetration in a handgun round, just load the longest/heaviest bullets you can find for it. And a full metal jacket will help to reduce bullet deforming if hard objects are struck on it's path. ( ie large African game bullets are usually not super high velocities, but more of a largebore, heavy fmj roundnose bullet. To give very deep penetration into large game.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
  15. moooose102

    moooose102 Senior Member

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    what that would do is initiate expansion. that is what balistic tip bullets do/use, only they use plastic to push back on the bullet center. now, if you made a solid bullet from copper, and sharpened it to a pint. it should out penetrate a rond nose or semiwadcutter in the same WEIGHT class.
     
  16. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Tip toeing through a mine field. :uhoh:
     
  17. everallm

    everallm Senior Member

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    Assuming this is purely a thought experiment and not advocating what, in and number of states is, or verges on the illegal.

    You would have to use a material much harder than lead to prevent plastic deformation on impact

    The round if not made of copper or bronze would probably need to have copper driving bands swaged onto the round or be loaded into a sabot to ensure rifling spin up without excessive wear on the lands.

    The round by it's nature cannot be a HP and by being made of a hard material would not expand on entry so at best you would get a small through and through injury.

    Since the round would be a monolithic piece, fired out of a handgun, at handgun velocities, then the possibility of tumbling and/or fragmentation is as close to zero as makes no difference.

    In other words what are you going to get out of it?
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    No verging here at all.
    It is against the law in all 50 states.

    It has been illegal since 1968 to manufacture armor-piercing handgun ammo

    Federal Law 921(a)(17)

    (B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means —

    (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

    (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
     
  19. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Senior Member

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    Not familiar with "federal law".
    If valid, it will be in this format:
    xxCFRxx.xx(a)(b)(c) ect........

    Not '68, but rather probably circa 1978 if valid.............
    Check again, and cite your source correctly, unless that is perhaps Canadian, Australian, law.........ect...

    Also; current and valid law stipulates that it has to be "designed" and "intended" to penetrate personal body armor..........

    I had a class 1, and class 6 (manufacturer's license) from '83-'92. Never had ATF discuss "armor penetrating bullets" with me. But then, I requested license only for "reloading and remanufacturing" small arms ammunition.
     
  20. TonyDedo

    TonyDedo Member

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    You'll poke your eye out!!!
     
  21. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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  22. LTB15J

    LTB15J member

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    you'll be in danger of being labeled a mall ninja. that's about it
     
  23. jacobhh

    jacobhh Member

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    Note it states beryllium copper. Pure solid copper bullets are OK
    and Magtech solid copper bullets are available from Midway for example.
    Apparently the purpose is for use on 'lead free' ranges.

    I don't know about any state law, but I can envision the EPA jumping on this
    and requiring these or some lead-free bullet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  24. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Senior Member

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    I think you'd cut thru the jacket before you got it sharp.
     
  25. Sunray

    Sunray Senior Member

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    "...it should out penetrate a rond(SIC) nose or semiwadcutter in the same WEIGHT class..." It won't make a lick of difference with like velocities. Penetration is about velocity and bullet construction with like weights. Bullet construction is more important.
    "...Pure solid copper bullets..." Barnes Bullets are soild copper. They fly differently than a lead core bullet though.
     

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