Shoot Thru, Fixed to the bench quietizer. Legal?

[cropcirclewalker]

I have been playing with some cast loads with my '03 Springfield, messing around with light loads at 50 yards.

I load up a round. Take it out to my range (I am on 90 acres down here in the Ozarks). I stuff in my ear plugs and shoot it. Then I record the velocity, where the bullet hit and take the brass inside and reload it and repeat.

So, sometimes the missus is trying to take a nap or I forget the ear plugs (PITA) and like that, so I was wondering........

What if I built a rig on the end of my bench that I could shoot through? I would call it a shoothru.

I know they passed laws against silencers back in '34 to keep the bad guys like John Dillenger from robbing banks and such but I have also seen posts on other boards where some guy builds a shooting shack and sets his bench up where he can shoot through a sort of tunnel like thingy with insulation and all that out to a target that is far-far away.

I got on the ATF web site and tried to see what they thought.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

(24) The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Ok. I think I know what is a portable firearm.

If I build something like fer instance a 20 foot long piece of 6" pipe to shoothru which is fixed in place and or bolted to my shooting bench on my own land with the nearest neighbor more than 200 yards away through the woods and over the hill and which is not affixed to my firearm am I building a silencer?

If I am building a silencer, so what? I am not about to rob a bank with it.

Is the guy who shoots through the tunnel out of his shooting shed breaking the law?

I know there is "the Letter" of the law, but what about "the Spirit"?

I'm already half deaf from working the flight deck.

A little help here? Who thinks what?

 

[1911Tuner]

Silence

I do believe that the device has to be attached to...or designed to be attached to a weapon...before it's defined as a "Silencer" or supressor by the BATFE. A separate, non-attachable device is just that.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I know there is "the Letter" of the law, but what about "the Spirit"?

The spirit of the law, in B.A.T.F.E. terms, is the ability of the B.A.T.F.E. to send people to prison. That's it.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

I like Mr. 1911tuner's interpretation. Mr. Standing Wolf is further not speaking with forked tongue.

Does anybody know where there is documentation? The post I made originally says nothing about attachment to the firearm and only that the firearm is portable.

When I go to Bass Pro Shops in Springfield, they have a firing range. To get to it you gotta go through some sound muffling glass doors. Is that a silencer?

I did a search of GCA '68 for "silencer" and where ever it came up, I saw no prohibition to making one, only a prohibition against using one in a crime (especially those awful drug crimes) or importing or selling or extra time added to sentencing and like that.

Maybe I didn't see it, but I don't remember seeing a listing of the original '34 NFA which is what made those evil silencers so evil.

How come silencers are evil anyway?

 

[Werewolf]

Call your local ATF agent and ask. All they can say is NO. If they do you've lost nothing and saved yourself some potential trouble. If they say it's ok then you're ahead.

 

[Detritus]

what you are talking about has been done many times over, mostly with things like 20-40 foot runs of worn out tires bound together side to side, in a cradle or frame to keep the "tube" that is formed level and sometimes packed with say fiberglass or other "sound/vibration deadening materials"

but as stated as the local ATF agent, to make certain first.

 

[armedandsafe]

Let's see is I understand this: The muffler is attached to a bench which is (might) be attached to the floor/ground. That doesn't sound very "portable" to me. Probably not to a judge/jury. Attach the firearm to the device-table-floor-ground: that sounds even less "portable," now.

So, the result of that logic above means that any BATFE agent can arrest you and ruin your life anytime he/she wants to.

Pops

 

[BigFatKen]

I can get a slightly broken piece of concrete pipe for hauling it. I was going to stick a rifle barrel into it, shoot 'thru and lessen noise to neighbor when I fire the rifle.

It never occured to me that this might not be legal.

 

[Car Knocker]

Seventh, eighth and ninth pictures down:

http://forums.sixgunner.com/One_example_of_reloading_setup/m_27446/tm.htm

 

[Sinsaba]

I don't think I would call my local BATF agent. I think the appropriate action would be to write a letter a) describing the device you plan on making and if possible b) including detailed sketches.

The reason for this is that your local agent might say that "according to the description it sounded good but this isn't what I thought he meant". Result? You are in deep do-do. Or he might say " I don't remember any such conversation". Result? The same. All might be well and he is over ruled by higher ups. Result? The same (but maybe not as bad).

However, if you put it in writing, get the answer in writing, and do it the way you say. I don't think there is much/anything they could do to you even if they changed their minds later.

I think 10 years of my time in prison is worth the extra effort. I believe that other companies do this to cover their A$$ (could be marketing ploy but I recall seeing an advertisement for a gat trigger saying that they have letter from BATF on file for their product).

DISCLAIMER:
1) I am not a lawyer
2) I've never done this
3) I could have my prison terms misremembered
4) Take my advice at your own risk

 

[Detritus]

Seventh, eighth and ninth pictures down:

http://forums.sixgunner.com/One_exam...m_27446/tm.htm

Myself and numerous other member of the Savageshooters.com forums keep bugging Hammer to host a get together just so we can check that out in person..... no real progress on a universal invite yet though..lol

 

[sumpnz]

How come silencers are evil anyway?

Poachers.

Not that they'd ever do something like break the law, or gasp use a bow and arrow.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Thanks for posting the link to the shooting setup by Hammer. That is the one I saw way back and made me wonder about making something myself.

I think I am in agreement about not calling the Ftroop for guidance.

Given my skeptical nature nature and because of anecdotal history the good agent would say, "Sure, go ahead." Then call his buddies to line up a raid.

Sorry, I don't pull on superman's cape.

Any communication with them would have to be after some serious research into the law, cases and in writing. That's why I posted the question.

You see, being a law abiding guy like I am, when I see that Briggs & Stratton engine muffler laying on a shelf up in the barn, I get to wondering. The mower it was bought for is long gone. Then I furtive look around hoping that nobody can read my mind because I remember the part of the law about

designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

and give thanks that thought crime is not punishable at this time.

Then with a natural curiosity, I wonder how much that muffler would really muffle and then I realize that I have just turned that B&S muffler into something that I should write a bunch of letters, fill out a bunch of forms, write a check for 200 bux and wait for 6 months to keep from being a criminal.

Something is wrong with that picture.

Poachers? That is a way of life down here.

Gunfire from any direction can be heard by me here probably 4 days a week, any time day or night and my neighbors will hear mine probably 6 days a week.

It's like this, Paw says, "hey, Maw, I just heard gunfire."

Maw says, "Me too, Paw, Pass the biscuits?"

It's just a cryin' damn shame that I can't clamp that muffler to my shooting bench and fire a round through it, just to see.

Cryin' damn shame.

 

[bdhawk]

several years ago, rick jamison, writer for shooting times magazine showed a 'silencer' he built. he cut the ends out of a couple of steel drums, welded them together, and .......well you get the idea. it was published in a magazine so i kinda doubt they would do that if there were any doubt of it's legality.

 

[Zak Smith]

Indoor range with "rifle tubes" have built-in baffle systems all the time. They are typically built into or connected to the walls, ceiling, and floor.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

When I started shooting, we shot through steel sewer pipes about a foot in diameter and 8 ft long so we would'nt shoot the people playing volley ball upstairs. I don't see a problem with your idea, if any product that diminished the sound signature of a fire arm then buying a longer barrel, getting rid of compenstor ports, using less powder in a reload would all be forbidden. That would make a interesting regualtion, all firearms must generate a 140db pressure wave at the muzzle? Only criminals need quieter firearms....If you really feel uncomfortable write to the Technical branch of the ATF and they will respond in a couple months.

 

[CB900F]

Cropcirclewalker;

Bdhawk beat me to it. But, I'm confirmation that it was published in Shooting Times, within the last ten years I'd think.

900F

 

[AJ Dual]

Perfectly legal.

It has to be attached to the muzzle/barrel, and it has to be portable with the firearm to be considered an NFA silencer/suppressor.

An insulated tube of tires or plywood box that stands on the ground, sits on a bench, or on the side of a shooting shed etc., is not a silencer and shooters build them all the time. If such things were illegal, it'd also be illegal to shoot indoors.

 

[rangerruck]

dittos to 1911, they consider it as a silencer as it is attached to the weapon. just read an article on this in a small arms review mag, a few issues back. someone was even trying to hassle kids about airsoft , with the fake looking silencers attached to the front. Atf said it was no silencer either, since it surved no purpose other than cosmetic, and in trying to take it off, since it was part of the weapon, you would basically have to break it off, and you would have no weapon at all. Last but not least, they said it was AIRSOFT! not a real weapon with a combustion / chamber report of sound. Bunch of losers , libs, and aclu types bringing a case like this to atf.... why i oughta.... grumble grumble...

 

[Randy in Arizona]

IIRC
The Main danger with this sort of setup is the danger of collecting a significant amount of highly flamable powder residue in those sound damping barrels.

Seems I heard tell of a guy that didn't clean out the partially burned powder frequently enough and had one heck of a fire when the muzzle flash lit the powder in the foam corrugations and the burning powder set off the foam rubber.