Shootability and Recoil of PF-9 v. P-3AT

[12many]

I have the 3-AT and I don't like it at all. Love the size, but that is all. I don't want to bash it, but it is just not for me.

Hence, I am looking for another small pistol.

Can any one compare the shootability and recoil of the PF-9 to the P-3AT. My main focus is the trigger and the recoil.

Thanks all.

 

[kokapelli]

Recoil of the PF9 is significantly heavier than the P-3AT, but adding a rubber slip on grip helps a great deal.

The PF9, although small for a 9mm is larger than the P-3AT and is not nearly as practical for pocket carry.

The P-3AT was never meant to be fun to shoot. IMO the P-3AT is the best pistol for the price that you can buy for deep concealment.

 

[Rex B]

I don't have a problem with recoil on my P3AT. doesn't seem to hurt me like it does some people. Same with the P11. I have both, carry the P3AT.
OTOH, I don't like shooting my wife's Colt Agent .38 spl snubbie. It's all steel. It hurts me, every shot. One cylinder full is all I want.

My point is, everyone is different. If may be the minute differences in muscle or skeleton in your hand. It may be the way you hold it. Only you can determine if a given gun will work for you.

Kokapelli's point is well taken. It's not about comfort. If you ever need it for it's intended purpose, recoil or hand pain won't be an issue.

 

[Boarhunter]

I own both a P3AT and a PF-9; the former is locked away in my safe and the PF-9 is always in my pocket.

Offering you a different opinion than what has earlier been expressed, I have no problems whatsoever carrying the PF-9 in my front pocket (in a DeSantis pocket holster), regardless whether I am wearing suit pants, cargo pants, or jeans.

Although I have no problem shooting either gun, neither is a "target" weapon intended to be shot very often.

Boarhunter

 

[Bill B.]

have the 3-AT and I don't like it at all.

IMO if you don't like P3-AT you won't like the PF-9. It seems that most either like a Kel Tec or they don't. They serve their purpose in their price range and are light with decent accuracy. I would say look at an other manufacturer.

 

[gbelleh]

I have both a P-3AT and PF-9. I find the recoil of the P-3AT quite mild, but the PF-9 seems to kick a lot harder and becomes uncomfortable after a few mags. IMO, if you don't like the recoil of the P-3AT, you'll hate the recoil of the PF-9. The PF-9 is more shootable in that it is larger and has better sights.

It might help to wear gloves, or get a Hogue slip on grip for practice. I really like the little Kel-Tecs. The P-3AT is my always BUG gun. PF-9 is my t-shirt weather CCW.

 

[12many]

You guys are great. Thanks.

I am not a P-3at hater, just for me, I don't feel comfortable with it. I will still use it, but if I can carry a bit larger gun and have a better comfort level, I think I will pick up another that is slightly bigger. Based on the comments, the PF-9 is out for me.

I may look at some different pistols. The Karh PM9 may be an option.

 

[kokapelli]

Now your talking! I have both a PF9 and a Kahr PM9.
The PM9 has much less felt recoil, is more accurate and is almost the same size.

 

[40jjb]

p3AT

Are you guys wimps or what? the P3AT recoil is nothing, It shoots great< My wife is only 5,2" 119pd. She handles the little thing with such eaz, the acuracy on this is superb, now I am talking of the secund generation P3AT,The 1 st generation's recoil was hurendus.

 

[40jjb]

PF9

The PF9 witch I oun also is a great shooter, No problems cocealing eather.

 

[40jjb]

PF9

If it kiks, Try a firm grip, think about it, The 9mm does not kik its one of the easiest to shoot, How are you guys holding these things that you complain asbout recoil, Go to the range and try again if your hand are hurting.WIMPS

 

[40jjb]

Pf9

Both pistols are recoil friendly, even using these light weit polimer pistols, after all they are design to be shot one handed, unless you go to big pistols like 454 cas. 500, so on all the small cal. from 22, 25acp, 32acp, 380 acp, 9mm are recoil friendly, so when i hear some one coplainig about recoil on these particuler cal. eather you have a medical condition on your hands or you are not holding the pistol right all the way to the buts top with the web of youre hand all the way there, Do thi tes hold a well tooned 1911 A1 with just 2 fingers, the thum and the triger finger ring one of, you see I lurnd this from the master, Jeff cooper, The pistol, 1911 and all that followed were origanaly design for the calvery back int the days to be able to be shot one handed and in case you lost some fingers in batle to be able to shoot with the leiast fingers if nesesary.

 

[12many]

Who you calling WIMP !!

I will admit that the P-3at kicks my a$$. It causes me pain and the trigger is so bad . . . . I can not even describe it. Plus, the accuracy for me is terrible. I would be better off squeezing the cartridge in my fist and wacking the primer with a punch. I would rather shoot a .357 mag from my buddys blackhawk than that little .380. While the recoil is more with the .357, it is much less painful, actually not pain full at all. I am a P-3at wimp. I am a big guy too at 6' 4" and 215 lbs.

I have a 1911 .45 and xd sub-compact in 3" barrel. and both are fun and a couple boxes at a time through each is great.

I like the idea of buying another pistol.

 

[Anna's Dad]

It's probably because you are a big guy that the P-3AT kicks your butt. The gun probably just doesn't fit well in your hands.

 

[12many]

It's probably because you are a big guy that the P-3AT kicks your butt. The gun probably just doesn't fit well in your hands.

Or perhaps I am a big wimp. Na, it is probably that I am so big that little gun beats me up. Thanks.

Kahr really likes those PM-9 pistols they sell. They like them so much they price them in the +600 $ range. Buds has them for about $600. Is it a $600 dollar gun? Is that the gold plated barrel model?

 

[kokapelli]

the acuracy on this is superb, now I am talking of the secund generation P3AT,The 1 st generation's recoil was hurendus

I have both, 1st and 2nd gen P3ATs and don't feel any difference in recoil between the two generations!
They are basically the same pistols, with the same basic frame, barrel, hammer and trigger group and even use the same recoil spring. The 2nd gen P-3AT is very slightly heavier.

Both pistols are recoil friendly, even using these light weit polimer pistols, after all they are design to be shot one handed, unless you go to big pistols like 454 cas. 500, so on all the small cal. from 22, 25acp, 32acp, 380 acp, 9mm are recoil friendly

First you said the 1st gen P3AT has "hurendus" recoil ( I guess you meant horrendous) and then you tell us they are "recoil friendly". Well, which is it "hurendus" ( I guess you meant horrendous) recoil, or "recoil friendly" ?

the P3AT recoil is nothing, It shoots great< My wife is only 5,2" 119pd. She handles the little thing with such eaz, the acuracy on this is superb

My CZs, 1911 and Hi Power have what I consider excellent accuracy. The P-3AT and PF9, though adequate, are no where nearly as accurate as the CZs, 1911 and Hi Power.
To say the P3AT and PF9 have superb accuracy! What do you consider "superb accuracy" to be?

Controlling the P-3AT and PF9 is not a problem for me, but I guess I'm a wimp too, because I think there is significantly sharp felt recoil on both pistols with the PF9 being noticeably heavier.

 

[berkbw]

well . . . I think that the "Big" man has "Big" hands that don't fully grasp the weapon. And, for him it kicks like a mutha. If a 1911, which is "supposed" to have the maximum recoil that an average guy can handle [!!] in the 5" version, and stump pulling stuff in compact size. I think that he's not a wimp, the gun just doesn't fit his massive grip.

b-

 

[40jjb]

reply

Well I mean I practice triger control, I can shoot a 1"strip dead senter at 15 feet with both PF9 and P3At so can my pettite wife. Any pistol is acuret as long as you practice triger control.

 

[berkbw]

as long as you can actually "hold" the pistol, eh?

b-

 

[kokapelli]

Well I mean I practice triger control, I can shoot a 1"strip dead senter at 15 feet with both PF9 and P3At so can my pettite wife. Any pistol is acuret as long as you practice triger control.

I'm not saying I doubt you, but I'd sure like to see that!
And as far as "Any pistol is acuret as long as you practice triger control", (I think you meant accurate), I've seen pistols locked into rests that couldn't keep the spread at 1"!

 

[jon_in_wv]

The recoil of the pf9 is also going to be determined partly by the ammo you choose. If you are a glutton for punishment you'll shoot Corbon 115grs in it. If not you'll be more sensible and choose a standard pressure round. I prefer the fast 115/124gr loads in my M&P but he 147gr ammo gives a really different recoil impulse. If is less of a POP and more of a push. In a light gun like the PF9 the difference is going to be even more pronounced.
In .380 the only good loads are in the 90-95 grain range with the exception of the Rem Golden saber load. The PF9 may be a little more flexible in that aspect. There are even 90 grain 9mm loads that may not be the best loads in 9mm but they may be equal or superior to what you would get out fo the P3AT in a package with much more manageable recoil.

 

[tinygnat219]

If you don't like the P3AT, you will hate the PF-9. Felt Recoil is noticeably stronger; well it IS a more powerful cartridge...

Here's an informal review / test I wrote up for www.firearmsforum.com:

I have to say that my evaluation period has ended for this pistol, and I have to report on what I have found:

Total rounds through it: 500 breakout is below:

200 S&B FMJ 115 Grain.

100 WWB FMJ 115 Grain.

100 Federal 135 Grain JHP "Low recoil" (the BEST ammo for shooting this gun)

50 rounds of Winchester SXT 147 Grain JHP

50 rounds of Cor Bon 115 Grain +P JHP

I had 0 Failures to extract with any of the ammo here, I only had 3 misfires all with the S&B ammo, and I had no jams. All in all, a fairly impressive pistol in a somewhat abbreviated testing period. Accuracy was ok, the long DAO trigger and stout recoil made follow-up shots a little longer than they should have been. Ammo costs were just getting too high to really continue with the evaluation, so I figured I would stop and look at my notes to see what has been done.

Felt Recoil: Stout, but controllable. Almost too painful to fire +P ammo out of. My hand was shaking after the 50 rounds were fired and I had to call an end to the range trip early.

I cleaned the pistol after each range session, why? Well, it's because I like to do it and I figure defensive tools need to be kept clean. After all, I wasn't trying to test it's MTBOF or anything like that, or see how hot I could get the gun, I just wanted to see how it did with some select ammo with all possible excuses removed. It functioned, as expected, well and reliable.

So, in part of keeping with my role as "Kel-Tec apologist", I delved deeper into the pistol. In my original evaluation for purchasing this pistol, I didn't check the Kel-Tec Owners Group when I first picked it up. I should have.

I stumbled upon several threads in the Kel-Tec Owner's Group about problems, fixes, and other stuff. To be honest, it got to be a headache considering all the things that could fail with this pistol, or the obvious shortcuts the company takes to finish its product. Let me repeat, there's nothing wrong with my gun, but when I see things like these in the KTOG:

Failure to Feed
Problems with Magazine follower
Light Strikes
Cracked Slides
Assembly Pins losing threading unexpectedly
Triggers going slack, from spring "popping" out of place

I figure that I just don't want to put up with that kind of possibility. The fact that a NIB gun requires this much work and has this many problems to run reliably where it should be in the first place is simply too much. The KTOG has a LOT more issues where those came from. So, to make a long story short, I have decided to sell it. It's on Gunbroker right now if anyone is interested: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=89388834

 

[jfh]

kokapelli: "...I've seen pistols locked into rests that couldn't keep the spread at 1"!

So have I--but not at 5 yards / 15 feet.

Personally, I have shot many rounds with my M&P340 with 38+P (re) loads, heads-up, using a CT laser, and can generate groups as small as 3/8" h x 3/4+" wide with a simple handheld benchrest--at 15 yards.

I haven't tried 'marksmanship' shooting yet with my P3AT, but I typically do 2" groups at 7 yards (5/6) in a measured and aimed rapid-fire--and my eyes are shot; I'm 63.

It sounds to me like 40jjb has not only mastered that Kel-Tec trigger, he may have done the owner "fluff and buff" routine--and he has small hands.

tinygnat: I've been curious about the PF-9, and I've followed the KTOG forum on it closely. It appears that most factory problems are now worked out--by serial #RAXXX, if I read things right. What serial number is your gun?

Jim H.

 

[PCRCCW]

Wimp! Kidding!...he he
My ex is 5'4" and 105 lbs wet! and she can shoot her P3AT all day...the PF 9 does recoil more but thats to be expected. Then again, she shoots Casulls and 50 DE's also.

As far as them being target accurate? Probably not...but she can shoot 6 shots @ 25 yds and hit 6 milk jugs with it...didnt miss a beat! The little Keltec is what she was shooting!

Maybe recoil is just a subjective thing? A 357 Blackhawk should kick less than the Keltecs, much bigger and heavier gun!....now fullhouse loads in a 340SC at 12 oz's recoils like something that has to be done first hand!

Shoot well and god bless

 

[jon_in_wv]

I used to have a Smith & Wesson 442 38 special. It kicked a LOT more than the P3ATs I have shot.