Kel-Tec Comparisons

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Navy87Guy

Navy87Guy

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First, please read the title of the thread. I'm looking for Kel-Tec comparisons. If you want to recommend a Kahr or an NAA pistol, please do that in another thread.

(I say it, but I know it won't stop people!)

I'm looking for anyone who can compare carry experiences between the Kel-Tec P-3AT, PF-9 and P-11. I'm considering them as a pocket gun to back up my normal CCW.

Specifically, I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has carried the P-3AT and the PF-9. I like the idea of the single stack 9mm, but the PF-9 looks like it's not as well suited to pocket carry as the P3-AT. The textured grip and the larger size make me concerned that it may "hang up" in the pocket (and yes, I'll be using a pocket holster).

I'm also interested in pluses and minuses of the PF-9 over the P-11.

Otherwise, I'm always happy to hear from anyone who has experience carrying any or all of the models.

Thanks!

Jim
 
I own the P-11 and have shot it side by side with the PF-9. The PF-9 had a slightly better trigger for me. However, I paid $180 for the P-11 used and the PF-9 I shot was new and cost the owner $325. I would not pay that much more for that little gain (my poinion).

I pocket carry the P-11 in a Deantis Nemesis and have two belt holsters on order. It carries well in the pocket though it looks and feels like a fair sized wallet for me.

I have never owned or shot the P-3AT but held it and compared it to my P-11. It is definitely the best of the 3 for conealable purposes. However, for me, I did not want to step down in caliber and up in cost of ammo. It sure is a whole lot smaller though, making it even more pocket-able.
 
I carried a P-11 for about a year, and traded it in on a new PF-9. I carry the PF-9 in a pocket holster and IWB with the optional belt clip. The P-11 was not small enough for me to carry in the pocket, so the optional belt clip was the only way I carried the it. The PF-9 shoots better than my P-11, but I bought the P-11 used and am not sure of it's history. I have never shot a P3AT. I recommend the PF-9.

ScottE
 
I had a PF-9 that the trigger failed to return after less than 300 rounds were shot through it. The trigger spring rides in a very shallow notch in the connector bar, and it would keep falling out. I sent the gun back to Kel-Tec with a note saying I wish I could get my money back and they actually mailed me a check for my purchase price, and shipping. So, although I was not happy with the gun, I was happy with their customer service.
 
I carried a P3AT for two years until recently when I bought a PF-9. I pocket carry in cargo pants. The PF-9 is indeed a bit larger than the P3AT, but in these loose pants, it is not an issue. In tighter fitting pants or jeans, I think there would be an issue with printing when seated. The grip is textured, but is not sticky, and does not interfere with the draw or catch on the pocket. However, the sights will grab the top welt of a nylon holster like the Nemisis unless you do as I did and cut the holster down and resew it to fall below the rear sight. A leather holster should not have this issue. Both are accurate, buy the PF-9 is much easier to aim, as it has such superior sights. After the .380, the 9mm's deeper grip frame took a little getting used to. Recoil is sharp but manageable with either gun, but I have wide hands and shortish fingers. Trigger pull is similar with each, because the actions are the same, although the PF-9 requires the mag release to be pushed when inserting the magazine. The P-11 action is different, with usually a heavier and longer trigger pull, but the P-11 has a true second-strike capability the P3AT and PF-9 do not. My cousin, who is about 5'6" and not heavy sold off a P-11, which he couldn't pocket carry, for a P3AT, which he does, and much prefers. I have gotten used to the feel of my PF-9, and it is my 24/7 pistol, but my wife doesn't like the grip, and stuck with her P3AT. I have had no reliability issues with my PF-9. It has been 100% out of the box.
 
Thanks, everyone -- that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for!

Maybe I can finagle a trip to the gun store this weekend to handle some.

Jim
 
3's and 9's

I have had two P3ATs and 2 P11s.

right now I have one each, both in the new Navy grip/chrome slide.
the P3AT is my daily carry
The P11 is my trunk backup and cold-weather coat-pocket carry.

I thought I wanted a PF9
But the only advantage is a smaller grip.
the slide is the same size, within fractions.
The small grip costs you several rounds

But most of all is the difference in trigger.
Get a dud round in a P11, pull the trigger until it pops.
On a PF9, you have no 2nd strike, you have to rack the slide ("Hold up, mr. mugger, I got a wee problem....OK, now where were we?")
And then there's the trigger reset issue on the PF9.

I'll keep my P11.
 
I carry the P11 and it serves well enough for me. I like having the higher capacity than the single stacks, but it is of coarse bulkier. Doesn't carry well in the pocket of, say, blue jeans, but is better in deep pockets, cargo jeans, or any jacket or coat pocket.
 
I have the P3AT and I will tell you it is one awesome gun. It is small and low profile and it is a tack driver out to 20 yards. Once I put a box of ammo through it to break it in it hasnt even had a hiccup. I would highly recommend one.
 
I have the P3AT and I will tell you it is one awesome gun. It is small and low profile and it is a tack driver out to 20 yards.
Click to expand...

Ditto. The P3AT defies logic with its accuracy. I have the P11 also but still prefer the AT for most carry uses, 'specially in summer when jackets and heavier clothes aren't feasible. Winter sees my G23 in a Fobus holster.

I spend some time on the St. Louis landing (with my Pennsylvania carry permit) and it's really nice to have such a slender, light gun that actually shoots where you aim it. I've had S&W model 66's with 2 inch barrels that wouldn't shoot ANYTHING near as accurately as the P3AT does. My best accuracy with the P3AT is with Winchester silvertips.
 
So...

The P11 gets the edge on second strike capability and magazine capacity.

The PF-9 wins for thin grip in a 9mm.

Both the P11 and PF-9 use ammo I currently stock (in abundance!)

The P-3AT wins for smallest overall gun, although the .380 means I need to stock another caliber of ammo.

Hmmm...this is really going to take some hands-on evaluation!

Jim
 
Another big +1 for the P3-AT. It's my daily carry and I love it. Can also verify it's fairly accurate too. Can't go wrong at all with it.
 
I was reading about the various models on the Kel-Tec home page. It says the P-3AT has no slide stop. Does that mean it doesn't lock back on an empty magazine? If so, that's not a very attractive feature in my book.

I'm also not sure I understand the comments about lack of a second-strike capability for the P-3AT and PF-9. By definition, a "double-action only" action has to be capable of second strike (and all 3 guns are described on the Kel-Tec web site as DAO). If you have to cock the hammer by racking the slide (and subsequent shots are cocked by the automatic action of the slide) then that really describes single-action mechanisms. So what's the deal?

Thanks!

Jim
 
There are some differences in the designs of the 2 guns as far as safety is concerned. I don't really understand the differences, but they can explain them on the KTOG site.
 
The P3AT does not have a slide stop. It is what allowed KT to keep it so small. I don't consider it much of a handicap, as I'm not planning on attacking any gangs in the near future... The reason there is no second strike is because the hammer is partially cocked by the slide, but requires the trigger to complete it's movement. Once it has fallen, the hammer will not be re-engaged by the trigger until it is restored to the partially cocked position either by the action of the gun cycling, or by manually drawing the slide back at least 1/4" or so to reset it. The gun is not supposed to be able to fire from this partially cocked position, as the hammer can't generate sufficient force to ignite a primer from that position. The partial cocking is what makes the trigger pull of the P-32, P3AT and PF-9 lighter and shorter than the P-11's trigger.
 
Thanks for the info. While I agree that I won't be making any urban assaults with a P-3AT, I still like a positive indication that I'm on "E"...especially when I only have 6 rounds to start and I'm used to having 17. Not insurmountable -- just a training issue.

I understand your description of how the action works, but I would argue that's not truly a "double action" mechanism. It is what it is, though - and we'll have to learn to fight through it.

The small size of the P-3AT is still pretty appealing....

Jim
 
I have a P32, P3AT and P11. I carry them all.

The P32 is a very accurate and easy gun to shoot. I love the 10 round mags.
The P3AT is more of a handful but is limited in capacity.
The P11 is my primary summer gun. Large capacity 12+1 in such a small package. It does not like 147 grain rounds but is 100% reliable with 115 and 124 grain rounds.

I trust them all with my life. :cool:
 
I carry a 1st gen P3AT as my 24\7 gun at 5 o'clock, and sometimes my P11 in a belt holster.

Never had a malfunction with either if them that wasn't my fault (a few stovepipes till i learned how to shoot the p3 correctly).
 
P3AT .380 Kel-Tec For Me~!

I have carried one daily for 'bout six months now; and after proving its-self
reliable, sees duty as my back-up CCW piece. Be advised, that this 'lil gun
IS NOT a target gun; and should'nt be treated as such. With its tiny sights
is more of a up close and personal "nostril gun"; or what I call an ATM gun.
Even though, in my hands I can keep a magazine full of .380's in an 8" pie
plate from 15 yards out~! :cool: As a matter of fact, I have mine on me right
now as I type this. ;) :D
 
+1 on the P3AT. Ever since I got mine about 2 months ago, it has proven reliable with FMJ and has been my main CCW. It also shoots a lot better than you might think. Very accurate at realistic distances and the recoil is very mild. Tough part is holding onto it. I slipped two layers of bicycle tubing around the grip to customize the fit and smooth out the checkering. Lack of a slide lock doesn't bother me, I won't be planning on sticking around for more than six shots anyway. The most practical gun I've ever purchased, next to the SW 22A I just picked up for range practice.
 
I had a P11, and carry a P32. The trigger just plain sucked on the P11, and my G19 carries as well as the P11 did. Now the P32 is a dream to shoot, much better trigger, and you forget your carring it. All my KTs are, or were 100% reliable. The P32 has no slide release, but does lock back on the last round, you just have to slingshot it to close it. Great guns for what they are, and they are ugly:D
 
Well, I called my local gun store and they have several P-3AT's and PF-9's in stock, so I'll probably swing by on Monday to check them out.

Thanks again for all the input!

Jim
 
I have carried the P32, the P3AT, the P11, and the P40.

The only one that was reliable for me was the P11. Until the ejector broke (the tip just snapped off) after a lot of practice with +P loads.

IMO, these guns are not made to be shot much and for sure not with hot ammmo.

I guess I'm just too fussy, insisting on practice with my carry weapons. IMO, if it wears out or breaks during practice with NOT a lot of rounds, I won't trust it for carry.
 
BTW, the PF9 got an F in Gun Test magazine. There is a trigger reset issue. During rapid fire, it may not.
 
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