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Short barrel AR legality in NJ

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Ks5shooter, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. Ks5shooter
    • Contributing Member

    Ks5shooter Contributing Member

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    I understand they are legal in NJ now,but with restrictions . Does anyone have a link or info on what needs to be done to be legal.. When I call the state police they say they don't answer legal questions. I searched online and cant find anything. thanks in advance.
     
  2. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    People are registering virgin AR receivers as AOWs on an ATF Form 1. There is no NJ law regarding AOWs.
     
  3. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Just to clarify, are you talking about an SBR or an AR "pistol"?
     
  4. Ks5shooter
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    Ks5shooter Contributing Member

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    SBR sorry about that.
     
  5. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Huh?
    1. You can't "register" an AR receiver as an AOW.
    2. You can apply via a Form 1 to make an AOW from an AR receiver.
    3. AOW is defined as follows:
    CFR 479.11 Meaning of terms https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...7cfc7d0992&mc=true&node=sp27.3.479.b&rgn=div6
    Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
    4. When someone fills out that Form 1 they are required to submit caliber, barrel length and overall length of the firearm they will make. An AR receiver doesn't have a barrel or caliber. It's OAL cannot be determined until it has been completed.
     
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  6. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    The ATF uses the term “register,” with regard to NFA weapons. The OP’s question is how people get short barreled ARs in NJ. The answer is, they are registered AOWs. He needs to fill out a form 1.
     
  7. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    I know, I sign over a hundred Form 4's every year.;)
    If you've filled out a Form 1, you would know that's for making an NFA firearm and for paying tax. A person could hold 87 approved Form 1's and have never owned a firearm or AR lower in their life.

    Again, an AOW on a Form 1 doesn't let people "get short barreled rifles"......in ANY state. If the firearm meets the definition of pistol, rifle or short barreled rifle...it cannot be an AOW. Thats pretty darn clear in the definition I posted above.

    Are people in NJ filing Form 1's and incorrectly describing the firearm they are making? Possibly, but ATF won't actually SEE the firearm, instead the burden is on the maker to follow federal law. Since ATF doesn't SEE the firearm, its possible that whats being built IS NOT an AOW.

    Are people in NJ making a firearm that resembles an SBR, but isn't an SBR, pistol or rifle as defined in federal law?........possibly.

    Again, an AR receiver cannot be an AOW and an AOW cannot have the same features as an SBR because then it would be an SBR.
     
  8. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    This is Legal, so your assertion needs a citation.
    For instance Per 2009 New Jersey CodeTITLE 2C - THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE 2C:39-3 - Prohibited weapons and devices:
    cite:https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/2c-39/2c-39-3/
    It looks good.

    However, if we go to 2009 New Jersey Code TITLE 2C - THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE 2C:39-1 - Definitions:
    We find (emphasis mine in bold)
    cite: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/2c-39/2c-39-1/

    So, the lay answer seems to be the SBR has to be > 26 inches long overall.
     
  9. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    No, its not false and I told you why....and I'll repeat.
    AGAIN, a Form 1 is for MAKING a firearm. If the AR lower is never MADE into an NFA firearm IT IS NOT AN NFA FIREARM! By itself, an AR lower is just a firearm receiver. Until built into a rifle, pistol, shotgun, SBS, SBR, AOW, MG or DD it remains a Title I firearm receiver. A Form 1 is a tax for making an NFA firearm.

    "Akin to an AR pistol"...........IS NOT AN AR PISTOL. Definitions exist for a reason.



    Yet you wrote "The OP’s question is how people get short barreled ARs in NJ. The answer is, they are registered AOWs..."
    Precise language is important in this type of discussion.


    No kidding. Already covered above.



    Again, your advice is faulty.
    Here's why:
    Following your advice, I build a firearm using a virgin AR lower, an AR parts kit, a complete barreled upper with 7" barrel (whatever I choose in your words) and attach a folding arm brace (whatever I want in your words).
    What type of firearm have I created? Regardless of OAL or length of barrel, that's a pistol as defined in federal law. If I completed a Form 1 for an AOW and built a pistol I'm not in compliance with federal law.


    Now..........how can I build essentially the same thing that IS AN AOW?
    I build using a virgin AR lower, a complete barreled upper, arm brace and ensure that my completed firearms' overall length is LESS THAN 26" AND that I attach a vertical forward grip (because pistols have only a single grip). If my overall length is more than 26" I have a Title I "firearm" that is neither handgun (because it has a second forward grip) nor long gun (because it lacks a shoulder stock). Measurement of either is from the end of the buffer extension to the end of the muzzle or permanently attached muzzle device.

    Again, if the firearm you made meets the definition of rifle, pistol or handgun..........you haven't made an NFA firearm. Whether you have an approved Form 1 is meaningless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020 at 12:50 PM
  10. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    Dogtown Tom is correct, you can make an AOW from an AR receiver as he explained. Adding a vertical forward grip onto any firearm with a rifled barrel less than 16" OAL and the weapon is under 26" OAL indeed constitutes an AOW. That is how all of the people in Connecticut got into trouble with being in possession of illegal AOW's, the ATF decided to measure the firearms with the folding adapter in the folded position which made the firearms under 26" with a vertical forward grip.

    A good clarification of how people are legally owning a short barrel AR in New Jersey would be helpful, especially for NJ residents. Last I checked the difference between an AOW and a SBR is that an AOW is NOT designed to be fired from the shoulder as in not stock while a SBR does have a stock.
     
  11. Ks5shooter
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    Ks5shooter Contributing Member

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    Keep info coming thanks all who are contributing.
     
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I know I learned something today, thank you.
     
  13. tommy.duncan

    tommy.duncan Member

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    Not being super familiar with AOW regulations, I didn't think an AOW could have a rifled barrel.

    Sorry if I am wrong, not trying to muddy the conversation.
     
  14. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    Yes an AOW can have a rifled barrel. If you put a vertical forward grip on any pistol (not just an AR) it becomes an AOW if OAL is under 26". Any shotgun with a barrel less than 18" OAL and is under 26" OAL AND does not have a stock is an AOW.

    To add clarification/confusion per federal law concerning guns classified as a "firearm". If you take something that is classified as a "firearm" such as a Mossberg Shockwave, Remington Tac14, or an AR pistol with a VFG and is over 26" OAL and conceal any of them, they instantly become an unregistered AOW.

    Federal laws:

    Any stocks rifle with a barrel under 16" or OAL is under 26" is a SBR
    Any stocked shotgun with a barrel under 18" or OAL is under 26" is a SBS
    An AR pistol can have any length barrel attached.
    If a VFG is added to a pistol and the OAL is under 26" it is an AOW
    If a VFG is added to a pistol and the OAL is over 26" it is now classified as a "firearm"
    If you conceal a "firearm" it becomes an AOW

    Now as far as how New Jersey residents are getting around this, are they making an SBR, AOW , or a "firearm"? It is definitely interesting how people deal with the different state laws to stay legal
     
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  15. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    This is a gross oversimplification, but to sum it up in simple terms, an NFA AOW is a firearm that doesn’t fit into any of the other firearm categories and is considered to be concealable and/or is designed to look like something other than a firearm.

    And a generic non-NFA “firearm” is a firearm that doesn’t fit into any of the other firearm categories and isn’t considered to be concealable and also isn’t designed to look like something other than a firearm.
     
  16. tommy.duncan

    tommy.duncan Member

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    Perfect, This thread has taught me something.
    Thank you!!
     
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