Short Barreled, .308 Semi Autos

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glockamolee

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I'm considering a "one gun" concept that can do everything. Obviously, a "do it all" rifle won't do everything perfectly; I'll be happy with reasonable effectiveness.

I figure a short barreled .308 semi auto. This would take care of hunting, self defense, and 600 yard shooting.

I notice the AR types, M1A variants, AK types, FN and HK types.

Any opinions??? Thanks.
 
short being 16 inches( legal limit if non nfa)

Id go with a para FAL possibley a DSA, ive always wanted one..........:evil:
 
On the other hand...

What about the Remington 7400?

Semi-automatic; available in .308 Winchester, probably less costly and it's not as 'evil' looking.

Unless you want 'evil' looking, of course.
 
saiga, saiga ,saiga, 16 in bbl, cold pour, hammer forged, chrome lined, the plain janes can be had for 250 dollars, or go for a full conversion for about 400 to 500 dollars. i have the plain janes in 308, 762.39 and 223 , they are all moa at 100 yds with open sites.
 
I own a 20" Saiga .308 rifle and can attest that the rifle will shoot MOA to 400 meters using M855 Match Ball ammunition and a telescope.
(Yes I can post a picture of my rifle.)
I have fired the 16" barrel version and can tell you that the blast and flash can be described as spectacular, even on a sunny day!
 
Come on. The X ring on a 200 yard target is what, like 2 maybe 2.5 inches?

So in other words you are saying that you can reliably shoot a 2" group at 200 yards with iron sights out of a Socom and basically shoot a perfect score with all bulls?

I'd have to see this to believe it. Maybe some hard ass from the Marine or Army rifle team with an accurized M14 could do it, but even then I doubt it. With a short barreled Socom I don't see how it's possible to do this with any consistency even if you shot off the bench.

We're talking about scoped Remington 700 territory here.
 
Shooting moa with irons is possible--I've done it several times and I really don't get much chance to shoot my rifles so I can't claim to have a lot of rifle experience.

Shot a .3" five shot group with iron sights (aperture sights) at 50 yards using my CZ-452 which works out to sub-moa. That was earlier this month.

I've also shot a few sub-moa groups with Swedish Mausers at 100 yards using open sights. I've also shot one 3/4" group from a TC Encore Rifle in 45/70 at 100 yards using the open sights.

I don't know if I can do this anymore with open sights since my eyes are starting to like open sights less. But aperture sights still seem to work for me.

All of those were from the bench--in case it even needed saying. ;)

I'm not saying I can do it every group, or even with most groups, but if I have a rifle and ammo that can do it, I feel reasonably certain that I could put together at least one three shot, sub-moa, bench-rested group using aperture sights in a range trip.

That's only out to 100 yards. I've never shot for groups past 100 yards with iron sights so I can't really comment. However, if the aiming point is visible I would think it's not out of the question.
 
The Right Arm of the Free World

Saigas are great, low cost, AK reliable rifles. Their main drawback is the fact that they're a bit odd as far as AK variants go so things like mags and other accessories aren't as plentiful.

Seeing as how you want a true "do it all" rifle (Saigas are a wee bit sporty) I'd recomment the DSArms SA58 carbine with their Picatinny scope mount and a Belgian quick-detach bipod. There's a huge market for FAL-related parts and toys so you'll have no trouble finding anything you need.

Personally, I'd stay away from Springfield's M1A (SOCOM, etc). It's a respectable design, but the receiver is investment cast. If you want it to also be a SHTF rifle, you want your receiver to be forged.
 
that is a yes to Andy c. Im lucky , i have off the chart good long range eyesite, however i've noticed over the past 2 years, my short range, while still very good, is not what it used to be. i have to really work the site picture, and take several diff glances to get moa on the 762's, but the 223 is much easier. Probably because of the better bullets i use in it.
i have heard the Saigas with the longer bbls are not as accurate because of the whip effect, but it could just be rumor and innuendo. I have only owned the 16 inbbl models, and have not had a Saiga yet that wasn't moa .
 
I have an M1A, and it's fairly Universal.

But for a one shop stop gun, I have to go with a Mauser 98K in 308. (I have one of those too!) Bolt action so it ain't so evil' lookin', and in 308 so bullets are never a problem, and neither is handloading.

You practice until you can get that into a 3" circle with iron sights @ 300 yards, and you'll kill anything in North America (except the taxes)
 
How about a really really really short .308?

showphoto.php
 
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I don't mean to offend anyone so I'll try to be carefull how I write this.

Some of you are questioning the capacity to hit MOA out to 200 yards using iron "open" sights. I wonder if you are aware of a sport called Silhouete shooting where much of the shooting is done out to 100 yds with iron sighted handguns? Two hundred yards with a rifle is not all that far away especially from a solid prone or bench position. In fact a great deal of shooting has been done at 1000yds using iron sighted single shot 45-70's for the better part of one hundred years. I do understand that "MOA" has some mystique about it but a "scoped Model 700" is certainly not the only way to get there. I have three friends all of whom are near sighted who have each independantly taken offhand standing shots at ranges up to 400yds and regularly engaged a 12"x18" steel plate. Consider for a moment that to hit that plate using a "center hold" you must be able to maintain at most a 6" group. At 400yds, one MOA comes to 4". Now when you add the fact that this was done with a WWII surplus weapon with surplus ammo sans scope I think you get the picture. I want to be clear that once a few sighters were fired, all three (plus me) were able to hit the target 5 for 5.
 
Onmilo said:
I own a 20" Saiga .308 rifle and can attest that the rifle will shoot MOA to 400 meters using M855 Match Ball ammunition and a telescope.
Click to expand...

If you are getting MOA out of a .308 bore with M855 ammo, then that is quite an accomplishment. ;)

What is the accuracy requirement for this rifle at the max range? Hit a silhouette? Hit the vitals of a deer?

Pretty much any of the rifles you mentioned will do what you are looking for, it is only if you are looking for greater accuracy that some of them start to fall out. Reliability would be another issue where some would do better than others.
 
Well, if you guys can do 1 MOA with iron sights, I stand corrected and will be the first to admire your ability - and wish that I had those eyes :D
 
Bartholomew Roberts,,,, Errrr. I did type M855 didn't I! Whoops.
Scouts Honor I will proof read more carefully in the future! (Uh huh:rolleyes: ).

I did mean to type M852 .308 Match ammunition not M855 and thank you for the heads up,,,, again,,,,
And I don't really consider 4" groups sighted with a 6X 24 power S&W Mil-Dot scope off a sandbagged bench rest all that astonishing either.
I use a K-Var 'Picatinney' side mount base and Millet rings with this rifle also
Neither the rifle or I will group that well standing and unsupported.

By the way the Bush rifle does a little bit better with the same ammunition, plus the same scope and rings mounted on a Smith Enterprise 'Picatinney' Mount and it is only 18" in barrel length.
A better rifle all the way around but more finicky in ammunition selection.
 
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