Shotgun in Katrina-like scenario

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Nick_007

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I'm thinking about getting a shotgun. Just because for the most part . . . But in addition I was thinking, in a period of civil disorder, I'll probably be in a position to have to defend my home. Not only in really close range inside my home, but also maybe a fire fight that might be too close for a rifle. Say in the 60-feet range and outnumbered.

I can't remember how much a shotgun sprays. I haven't shot one since I was 13 maybe, but in close range -- is this a good gun to have if outnumbered? I know a gun on full auto would be better in close range but . . .

Also, is a double barrel good for anything except movies? I figure I might as well get one of those too in case . . . figure I can saw it off and it could make for good handgun if the SHTF. It's a PITA to get a long gun permit in my neck of the woods -- let alone a handgun permit.
 
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A double barrel is simpler if you won't practice much. Massad Ayoob advises against them.

If I was outnumbered, I would want a lot of distance, just because I'm less likely to get hit. However, you can't shoot everyone on sight, even after a storm, so distance might not be an option.

I don't know if it would be good. It has lots of stopping power and is slightly easier to hit with, the problem is that it has higher recoil. If you're worried about being outnumbered after a storm, and want a shotgun, you might want one with a detachable magazine.
 
Nothing wrong with the old standards used for home defense - whichever one you know is reliable and you're trained on. Right now I've got an 870 clone and a 930 SPX in the house. Sold the Saiga 12, but it was a pretty decent shotgun too.
 
Get a pump-- I have a Stevens 5100 SXS and I like it, but it is slow, only takes 2 3/4 shells, and is only designed for lead shot.

I love autos, but like the reliability of a pump. I have shot 2" Centurions in mine and have had no issues-- my dad tried in his Browning Auto-- no joy...

Also SXS are a 2 shot gamble-- my 870 is 8+1 and I can go from a field barrel to a HD barrel in a few seconds... Of course I only use the 12 ga for ducks and pheasants, but it is nice to have just in case...
 
I keep a couple of weapons in mind for such a situation, one of them is a Rem 870 loaded with #4 buck. I also keep a smattering ready including an M-4 style rifle, an SKS, and an M-1 Carbine. Keep in mind in a Katrina style situation, we would WANT to stay in our houses, but it's may not be possible. People were stuck in New Orleans because they were afraid to leave because of high likelihood of violence with no means to defend themselves.
 
Not only in really close range inside my home, but also maybe a fire fight that might be too close for a rifle. Say in the 60-feet range

A shotgun is way more versatile then most realize. It's not just for close use, with proper choke 50 yards is in range.
 
I live in New Orleans, and I decided to get a Remington 870 Express with the synthetic stocks. It's shorter than average, with an overall length of 38 inches. It's easy to handle in hallways, and has a pump action that holds 5 in the tube. Be sure to get 00 buck for defensive purposes. You can get the Remington Express load which has less recoil.
 
In a "Katrina like enviorment" the proper weapon is in fact a powerful handgun you can wear and conceal.

You would need a gun you could wear comfortably while you hack your way through downed trees, walk miles to reach safety, and attract the least amount of attention to yourself.
Cause remember, you are going to have to deal with people after a natural disaster. Wielding a shotgun will not get yourself the kind of attention you want. And if the national gaurd comes in they will take that shotgun from you.
Where as a concealed handgun will not attract that kind of attention and become confiscated.

I can speak from experience a I was here in Houston for Hurricane Ike, and was without power in a so so neighborhood for a week.

I used a chainsaw, put my house back in order, hunted for ice and gas, helped my neighbors and went to Denny's all carrying my Ruger P345

In times of crisis a handgun is your best friend. Take that from experierence

Davion
 
If defending my home against an advancing mob, I'd pick up an SKS and my wife would be using the Camp 9, both with extra 30 round mags in all pockets. If I had to walk the streets, a high-capacity 9mm full-sized type handgun that I could conceal IWB with pockets-full of extra 15-17 round mags seems the logical choice to me.

Les
 
Davion, I couldn't disagree more. A handgun is NEVER ANYONE'S best friend. Least of all when you KNOW the world is falling apart around you. We carry handguns because it is possible for trouble to happen anywhere. When we KNOW the trouble is in the process of happening, there is no longer any reason to conceal the pistol, and the only reason to use it is if the rifle is no longer functioning.
 
The Archives are your friend. Tons of stuff on this there.

Yes, and we also have stickies:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=356667

Also do a search under JWarren and XavierBreath, they went through Katrina as well

Listening to Katrina, shares how important a gun on hip is, and how other things are more important than many things folks seem to want to accept as being important.


On a personal note, myself and some others made a run to Katrina folks and took single shot shotguns, .38spl revolvers, .22 rifles, used holsters, and simple ammo. Pellet, buckshot and slugs for the shotguns, standard pressure 158 gr LRN .38spl and Fed Bulk packs of .22 rim fire.

Diabetic kits, water, soap, crayons, coloring books, toys, batteries, kids tennis shoes, kids flashlights ( makes them feel safe) canned goods, water, coffee, tobacco, ...etc.
 
You go shooting people at 60 feet and they will be hauling your butt to jail. They were not threatening you. They were just 'insert ridiculous excuse believed by all liberals'.
If I was seriously worried about my home being overrun, I do believe I'd move. In fact, I did.
 
Best thing to have in a storm is a good running vehicle and a tank full of gas. An inland friend is good to have, too. :D Ideally, a motorhome or trailer to tow will give one a place to live if the house blows down. I want another one, trailer, not gas hog motorhome.

Shotguns don't "spray", they pattern. Standard for patterning is a 30" circle at 40 yards, for hunting, anyway. As was said, a shotgun with buck shot can reach out 50 yards properly choked. A shotgun with a slug can reach out 100 yards with an open choke. I'd be happy enough with a rifle, myself, but shotguns are good weapons for a self defense scenario within the range of what you'll need one for self defense. You ain't gonna be climbing a building or tower and sniping people from 300 yards, ya know, I hope not, anyway. I've been through a few hurricanes in my life and never thought about killing anyone. Of course, in New Orleans, it pays to go armed 24/7 storm or no storm. :rolleyes: Houston's crime rate sky rocketed thanks to displaced Katricians (term coined at the time:D) after that storm. People were running to the CCW classes and buying handguns big time LOL
 
Not in the REAL world.

This is cracking me up.

Look, I have an AR15, AR10 (check the for sale section for pics) a custom 870 pump w/ chamber extension, 18" barrel, AR style grip, collapsable stock blah blah blah.. (too many 'wonderguns' to list)

These things were all out leaning on the walls when Ike rolled into town. For anyone who lives in Houston I am in the Kirkwood/Dairy Ashford/Westheimer area. We are SURROUNDED by apartments, some section 8, full of Katrina evacuees. The crime rate in my neighborhood has sky rocketed since Katrina. Includes home invasions and carjackings.
These folks are not the type to be prepared for a natural disaster. Most likely the type to loot/steal what the need.

That being said...

When the Hurricane rolled into town I had every battle rifle I own leaning in every corner of the house. I am one of those EOTWAWKI nuts. I a prepared as well as I can be. Not just in firepower but living off the grid/self preservation for months kind of guy. Thank god my wife is understanding. I have spent thousands....

After "hunkering down" for 12 hours we emerged to a neighborhood that looked like a bomb had gone off. Downed trees and powerlines everywhere.
Most fences downed. No power. No running water. No cell phones did not work. No telephone or internet. Nothing we were accustomed to.

Let me tell ya'll who have never been through a natural disaster of this level.

The first thing you want to do is put your life back together as quickly as possible. To regain a feeling of control.
The thing most who have never experienced this can't understand is the amount of WORK it takes to put your life back together. My wife and I worked all day for a week solid cleaning up that mess. Clearing downed trees and mending fences was priority one as I have three dogs. That took three days of HARD work. All during that we had to keep the generator that did not want to start/ stay running, the fridge that froze up, the next door neighbor that had had a stroke during the hurricane that we discovered the next day at noon..
Oh and NO AIRCONDITIONING>>> means you are NOT sitting inside your house with your battle rifle. Most of the time you were working or resting in your front lawn in fold out chairs. You get to know your neighbors real well.

Yes we did all have the conversations about what we would do if the apartment dwellers starting looting. But when you are in that situation, and your world is turned upside down you have to keep one eye on your work and the other to watch for trouble.

THE MAIN POINT IS: YOU CAN'T FUNCTION AFTER A HURRICANE/NATURAL DISASTER AND CARRY YOUR BATTLE RIFLE WITH YOU. Not in the REAL world. I simply locked mine up and wore my handgun. Never had to use it BUT is was ALWAYS on my side. CONCEALED (yes I am licensed btw).

Anyone who says you can has never been through a disaster larger than dropping a box of Rice Crispys on the floor. 95% of your attention is is on putting your world back in order. This requires interaction with PEOPLE. And not in a "Red Dawn" sort of way. Your battlerifle/ shotgun disaster plan is just that. A disaster. All you would do is scare the heck out of your neighbors. And remember after the disaster is over.... you have to live next to these people.

Davion
 
I am presently in Florida but grew up in Biloxi, Ms. I have seen my share of hurricanes. I have a hurricane survival kit that includes all the medical supplies, food etc. to last for at least a month. I also have my survival weapons at close hand. This is a: XD40 SC, S&W M&P 9MM and 40 cal, Bond Snakeslayer .45/410, NAA380, Mossberg 12 ga Persuader shotgun and at least 13,000 rounds of handgun ammo and at least 2,000 rounds of assorted shotgun shells. If I survive the storm I am sure I can ward off the looters.
 
I didn't have any guns ready after Claudette, but my carry that was in my pocket. I live in a small town of 12K, a little different, but the placid blue waters of Lavaca bay is 150 yards off my front door. I'm at rather high elevation 22 ft, and we are well inland of the gulf, but when a storm comes, we get the heck out, no riding it out. I rode out Claudette, was without power for a week. Have window AC, have generator, used 'em until I got power back. Had plenty of mesquite to BBQ with, though. Hell, I enjoy camping.:D It wasn't exactly apocalyptic, but then, after going through Carla in 1961 as a 9 year old kid, nothing much is. Depends on the storm. But, firearms are my last worry in a storm. I load 'em all up, the ones I can't stand the thought of losing, along with important papers, pictures, etc that homeowners insurance can't replace, and get the heck out. I'm more worried about having a roof to sleep under than a gun. I grew up without AC in south Texas and didn't die, that's not a big deal if I have to go a week without it, hot as it will be.

Main thing is get out of harm's way. We're a little more vulnerable here. Houston, hell, I'd stay at home and throw a party anywhere west of Baytown. Davionmaximus's area of town is pretty rough, used to work at a Kawasaki shop there just off the SW freeway. I'd keep my carry on me, but walkin' down the street lookin' for people to kill just don't seem to right. :rolleyes: A storm doesn't give one a license to kill and as catastrophic as you might think the situation is, it ain't if you're in Houston or most coastal cities. New Orleans is a special case. They had no more wind there in Katrina than we had here in 03 with Claudette! That storm actually hit coastal Mississippi and you didn't hear about all that stuff happening in Mississippi! Mississippi took the full brunt of it, the max cat 3 or 4 winds the full storm surge. We had 95 mph sustained winds with gusts to 108, but Claudette was small and didn't push a lot of water. Katrina was pushing a BUNCH of water and New Orleans is 10 feet below sea level in much of it. That's sorta a special case. Add to that the fact that the town is sort of Nuevo Laredo as far as police corruption, socialist government, and drug violence, and well, people think anywhere on the coast that gets a hurricane is going to turn in to chaotic mass murder. It just ain't so. In fact, if you'd gotten the hell out of NO before Katrina hit, like an intelligent individual would, you'd not had a problem. You might have gotten your stuff ripped off, but you wouldn't be subject to having to kill someone.

I really don't see a storm as a reason to kill someone, call me naive, but I've gone through a few of 'em in my life and I've not seen it. If anything, the community comes together to help each other out. Of course, in a county this size, lots of people actually know each other. This ain't even Houston, let alone New Orleans. Heck, though, Galveston got pretty well wiped out by surge in Ike and you didn't see the violence you saw in New Orleans. I think New Orleans was the perfect storm, pardon the pun. Besides, it was all George Bushes fault, doncha know? :rolleyes:

What never ceases to amaze me is idiots that live RIGHT ON THE FRIGGIN' BEACH and don't evacuate. I wouldn't live on the danged beach anyway, let alone stay there when a storm pushing 15 feet of surge is coming. :rolleyes: Most of the deaths in Ike were people on Bolivar penentula that didn't get out. Darwin rules in situations like that, I reckon. I'm sorry for those who might have lost loved ones there, but hey, playing Russian Roulette is not a safe sport. That's just sorta the unemotional facts of the matter. Storm even HINTS it might hit here, I'm gone, cya on the flip side. :D Only reason I didn't leave for Claudette is I was working and they were saying it wasn't going to make hurricane force before it hit. Well, it built at the last minute to a minimal cat 2 and did a lot more damage than was predicted. I learned my lesson and I'm retired now and don't mind going on a vacation now and then.
 
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+Davionmaximus

I live in Central Florida, and when we had the three hurricanes roll through in three months, back in 2004 if i remember right, the same time I gave up kickboxing and grappling because the gym got destroyed. I had a few rifles and one shotgun(a 870 clone) only at the time (8mm Mauser Yugo and another German, and a couple SKS rifles[given to me in a private sale originally, meant to be collateral for $200 for a friend to make his car payment) and had only a few hundred rounds of ammo laying around for them(oh those naive days).

Yeah so I lived in a nice neighborhood, but I knew my neighbors and my neighbors knew me, and the neighborhood was full of gunnies who were war veterans going as far back as WWII and current as the first persian gulf war. And we didn't like folks straying into our little enclave of middle class homes filled with old folks and retirees, and them strays trying to take advantage of people in need.

If SHTF hopefully you made a few friends and know your neighbors on good terms, the values of cookouts and inviting all can have great dividends(hey on my lake I get to go jet ski and water skiing on other people's dimes 'cause I cook great ribs once a month). I'd sooner trust to have five or six gunnie ready neighbors prepared to practice watches with one another while we try to either rebuild or get aid (one guy sits in his house for an hour without A/C while five work together focused on one house at a time fixing it up, wash-rinse-repeat). I'd rather be in my yard with five of my neighbors with my rifle hidden in a trash bag by some shovels, with a snubby in my pocket, and my neighbors be armed likewise. Don't want to terrorise folks, I thankfully live on a lake surrounded by neighbors who are gunnies and love to wear their barbecue guns and show off and pass around their guns for everyone to see. You can have all the guns you want but you only have two hands.
 
Yuppers, made friends with the neighbors. :D My whole point was an AK/AR--/SKS is not a logical gun after a disaster...:banghead:
The best weapon after a disaster is the one between your ears.
 
What if it isn't safe enough to clean up yet? What if it's just you and looters until.....you don't know when? And even if it IS time to come out, when is it ever better to be prepared with a sidearm than a long gun?

A side arm concealed is always preferable since it's less provocative and less likely to attract the law. Can't clean up much in a jail cell. You're allowed to carry a long gun in Texas by the letter of the law, nothing against it, but there is a law against intimidation with a weapon. There's a fine line to walk there and, while you might beat the wrap, hey, you'll do some time in jail and have to post bail and have to get a lawyer and have to pay him. It could get expensive. I'm quite good with my handgun and I trust it will protect me properly applied to the situation. I have it on me 24/7, anyway, not like I would wear it only after a storm. :rolleyes: Where Davionmaximus lives, I'd carry my .45 or .357 more often and I'd likely carry 2 or 3 handguns, storm or no storm. LOL That's a rough part of town. Is a shotgun or rifle better in a war? Sure. Are you at war in a hurricane? With the wind, maybe, but not with your neighbors, I hope.

Ya know, I remember in the 60s when all it took was the power to go out in NYC to cause a week long riot. I think you should probably keep a shotgun around if you live in a town like that, for sure. There are situations, but everyone uses Katrina as the poster child. There are a lot of things, mostly man made things like a black guy getting beat up or a power grid failing or such that can cause worse problems in a city. Since I don't live in a city, I don't lose any sleep over what happens there. :D In fact, I'd like to move out of town here and get away from STUPID ordinances and the city taxes here that is money flushed down the drain. But, I won't go off on that, might start my own riot.:cuss: LOL!
 
Mossburg 500 with diffrent stock options depending where I might be. Have side saddle for more rounds and also a bandolla that i bought years ago from a garage sale that holds 75 rnds. Also have pisols. In MI though so no big storms.
 
What if it isn't safe enough to clean up yet? What if it's just you and looters until.....you don't know when? And even if it IS time to come out, when is it ever better to be prepared with a sidearm than a long gun
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Yeah, I will give you that in the unlikely event of an impending military strike, hostile alien take over or gangs from New Orleans heading down your street.... a long gun would be preferable. You win. My bad.

While we are at it, why stop there?? If I can be prepared for the above mentioned disaster situation then I want a Chain Gun. Oh, wait, better than that... a TANK!!

Now run along and clean up those 'Crispys :D
 
With large Storms like Katrina, I recall watching the wind fields and data during that time the Eye hit NOLA. We were about halfway on the decision making to "Go or no-go" for about half the night. We ended up staying put.

Now Gustav was a interesting storm.

In those days (And many other hurricanes in my life) we aint thought about weapons or riots or any of that. No need for all that drama.

Today?

Let's say one goes into Sabine River and turns at Texarkana and worst case scenario hits little rock at cat 2 or something.

We would have been gone at least two days prior. Either to Kansas or Amarillo. And yes the weapons go with us.
 
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