Shotgun Lessons with a cane pole and fly rod.

[sm]

Yes, I am serious.

Gun fit to shooter, and correct basic fundamentals are two thing I mention a lot.
All shooting is , is simply repeating correct basic fundamentals.
We take these correct basic fundamentals, and by quality practice , repetition we build up these allowing us to be smoother, faster and more effective.

Why a cane pole?
Most folks don't understand fit, and correct basics, be it learning to fish, or shoot a firearm, or anything else.
They want to start off in dead run, before they even learn to walk.

I can hand a kid a 13 ft cane pole and they say "this one is way too long, it does not fit".
Get that kid a 10 ft cane pole and "hey, this one fits me". The fish are "right there" and learning to read the water, habitat, a bobber, or feeling a fish nibble when using, or not using a bobber, transitions to when they get a Spinning , Baitcast or fly rod.

Same thing with a shotgun. Teach a shooter how to get up from crawling, how to stand, and take steps.

Shotguns are pointed - not aimed.
There are no beads or sights on a cane pole, any fishing rod.
Learning to be smooth while pointing that cane pole to get that bait, hook, bobber in the water , and after a bit, they do this faster, and smoother.
Just like they get a bit faster and smoother getting a fish in.

Again, these same principles transition to Spinning , Bait cast and Fly rod.

I use BB guns without sights to teach Shotguns as well.
I have shared how I do , as Brister shared in his book in regard to BB guns.

I have another little known thing I do-
Now with a kid, and with a kid sized BB gun, even just a stock of some kind with a PVC "barrel" I can get a kid to follow a Ping Pong ball attached to braided line with a cane pole.
They don't actually shoot it, instead say "bang" but the deal is correct mounting of "gun" to face, stance, and all the other basics and the ping pong ball is the target.

Adults see me do this, and they just have to try this. I have to get a longer cane pole, still this works.
Many will use a real shotgun, no ammunition, still saying "bang" as I move the target.
I can read a student pretty well, with someone assisting they too can assist.
The big deal is the student themselves being able to assess and read them selves.

-My stock does not fit me. .
-Boy I goofed getting gun to face, I need to slow down and get the basics down, be smooth and worry about being fast, later.
I /we have heard a lot.


~~

Fly rod next post.


Steve

 

[sm]

Fly rod

Remember, no tool is ever any better than said user of a tool.

It is he person with a firearm, not the firearm. In our case, the shotgun.

Hand a kid a 8' fly rod and they can put a bobber in the coffee can for instance just like they did with a cane pole.
It does not matter if the fly rod is a $20 fiberglass starter kit, or a Expensive Orvis, Sage, Winston.

User of tool - not the tool.

I let kids, adults feel the difference in a $20 fiberglass fly rod kit and a more expensive one. The set up itself, and with line out doing a "tap-tap-tap" on the line.

"It feels just like a cane pole!!"

Now the lessons pick up a notch. I tie a piece of bright colored yard and use the fly rod.
At first just showing the slow, easy , effortless motion of "repetitive smooth and slow".
Just like mounting shotgun to face, it needs to be the same way every time.

Now I admit, I have as much fun and challenge with these next things, as the students.

Kids with unloaded BB guns, follow that yarn on the ground as I move it back in . I vary the angle and speed, consistent not wanting to trip them up, instead match angle and speed of "flight".
I may have a can or something for the line to be around allowing me to pull more parallel to them too.

Bigger kids, depends on skill level and adults as well, get more challenges.
Challenges me as well with the fly rod.

Again, no ammunition.

Roll casting and they have to match angle and speed and "shoot" the yarn.
Getting more advanced, I am casting out further and further and they are having to shoot that "target".

I am not a programmed shooter, so I pass along I want these folks to be able to shoot non-programmed targets, just as they might in hunting or other situations.

~~

I am a huge believer in dry fire practice.
-Doing repetitions of correctly mounting gun to face.
-Dry fire using a taped up target in a garage, following a power line, etc.

These things pay off huge dividends when live ammunition is used against clays, targets, and game.

~~

I am a huge believer in gun fit, correct basics, safety , building self esteem and FUN in regard to all this assisting others in shooting.


Steve

 

[Dave McCracken]

Nice analogies,Steve. Both of mine started with a cane pole.

 

[CZ52GUY]

Pointing vs. Aiming

I was taught sighted fire only, did some research on point shooting. Did thousands of hours of dry-fire, and adopted a "point-and-verify" method. Essentially, after all that dry-fire (and significant live-fire time also), my point is pretty good. Verification for me is about making sure something didn't go haywire on me for some strange reason (and it usually does more than once in a live-fire session, because we haven't managed to ban Murphy from the club just yet, mostly with handgun vs. shotty or carbine).

I've heard folks discuss "flash-sight picture", natural point of aim, and some who claim fully cognitive sight picture recognition for each and every shot.

I'm curious about your definition of pointing vs. aiming.

Edited to add...It's a busy weekend for me at the range, probably won't be back online until Monday, but am very interested in your reply.

Thanks in advance,

CZ52'

 

[sm]

Shotguns are pointed - not aimed

Moving targets.

A Regular Skeet target moves at about 55 mph.
One is allowed to pre-mount the gun to shoulder.
I never did, I shoot from Low Gun.

Int'l Skeet, Trap and other clay games, one is required to shoot from "Low Gun" , meaning the butt stock must be below hip. Clays also fly faster than 55 mph.

Live Pigeons, Columbaire and other "serious" shotgun sports also means one is shooting birds in "erratic flight". In these game one MUST drop the bird within a shooting circle/distance.
If the bird is felled, and outside of this circle/distance - you missed.

Game birds vary in speeds and "flight path".
Rabbits run, and have a "flight path".
Deer run and have a "fight path".

This is why Gun fit to shooter is so critical. One has to be one with the shotgun. The shotgun has to literally be an extension of the shooter.

Just like pointing your finger at a light switch across the room, or following a bird in flight.
One does not "aim" , one is "pointing" and no sights on your finger. One just points because that finger is an extension of them, and the finger, hand, wrist, arms "fit the shooter" (gun fit).

Top Shooters will spend $$$ to have a Shotgun Custom fitted to them.
Many/Most will not have beads.

I was taught to shoot without beads, I teach folks to shoot without beads.


I will not recommend nor start a new shooter with any recoil reducing stock.
I do not want to teach a new shooter "wrong" and with a "crutch".

Art & Science as Brister wrote, shared and passed onto others is so true in regard to shotgunning!

Take a common shotgun, say a 870.
I will have them close their eyes and mount gun to face 2 or 3 times and the last time, shoot the "dot" on a pattern board at 10 - 15 feet.

I take the same gun and slap a piece of moleskin onto comb (raises comb) and have them repeat this.
POA/POI is different!
10- 15 feet, and the target is stationary.

Now what if that target was out 21 yards, like at skeet?
Getting on out to 30-40 yds like at Trap?
Dove coming in with afterburners on, twisting, turning and darting?

~~

Aimed shooting is sometimes done with a shotgun.

Gun STILL has to fit, and correct basic fundamentals apply.

Same reason Monto-Carlo stocks puts one's eye in better alignment with a scope for some folks.


Steve

 

[CZ52GUY]

Thanks Steve

From the Practical Side, we shoot Swingers (which I've yet to clock, but they move very quickly in a very tight arc), Drop Turners (which simulate somebody popping out to take a shot at you then ducking for cover), and have used a Roller (which simulate a healthy adult moving at a good clip). The Roller is probably the most interesting as we can angle the apparatus in various directions. We've put a no-shoot the size of a toddler in front of the Threat Target on the Roller which is also an interesting challenge for our shooters.

The introduction of no-shoots into the "Faux Combat" scenarios makes pure point shooting impractical for those threat target engagements, but I'm in general agreement that good pointing skills are a distinct advantage to any type of speed shooting proposition.

As I mentioned, I was taught sighted fire, which later moderated to an acknowledgment of "flash sight picture". I have a curious mind so I began to incorporate a piece of black tape about the size of a nickel (squared) into my dry-fire. First using to improve my pointing for handgun draws, then when mounting long guns. For pump shotgun in particular, I find it useful to see if I can keep sights on through a rapid-fire simulation.

I also experimented with a flashlight, then a laser pointer to see if my mind could be taught to put the beam/dot onto a specific spot, then series of spots in the room.

Bottom line, you can train yourself (with a multitude of small object dry-fire targets) to consistently point accurately without a "lift-look-confirm-press" approach to shooting. I point-verify-press. If for some strange reason something is haywire, the verify gives me a "kill switch" to shut down the shot. I don't commit myself to press when the neurons give the "point" command. I point expecting the sight to be where it should be. The verification ensures the target is still viable before press.

I think folks have to be a bit careful how literal they take constructive advice, and we need to be cautious how we present it. You can't simply point a shotgun at a threat target with a no-shoot which only presents a head shot zone at any distance. The risk to the innocent is too great, and a rapid point is still possible, but you better verify the sight is on the bad guy before pressing.

For other applications which are much more wide open, the ability to confidently point is essential, or the target will be missed.

Re: Recoil reducing stocks...I'm less dogmatic. I'm basically recoil immune in the shoulder. As I get older, I've found that a good all-day work out will put some stress on my other joints. At the same time, I've developed an empathy for those that are extremely recoil sensitive. If the choice is, some sort of recoil reducing load, stock, etc. or NO JOY from their perspective, I'm happy to accommodate them with some suggestions that will help them get over the hump. I concur that it is best avoided when feasible, but I've seen way too many get intimidated and walk away. I've met more adults that don't want to touch a 12ga because Father/Uncle/Brother/Boyfriend/Spouse MADE them shoot it, then those who are glad to have been knocked on their behind, or got their nose bloodied from the experience. It's a tough sell for me to engage those folks.

Different strokes...Knight & Wooden both won a lot of games...Wooden's put more flags in the rafters with more of an "empathetic" form of discipline. It's that rationale that has inspired the approach I take.

Keep Safe,

CZ52'

 

[sm]

CZ52GUY,

It is that thanks you.

We are one the same page; many may not read that we are.

Correct basic fundamentals, lessons, training, continued quality practice of lessons and training , willingness, being receptive to critique, brutal honesty in one's own assessment, and knowing one never stops learning.

These are what separates shooters, from those that own a firearm and are a figment of their imaginations in being able to handle various tasks with a firearm.


I believe in the correct basic fundamentals; then building upon these.
All shooting is, is repetition of correct basic fundamentals, just taken to more advanced levels...

It is suggested one have correct basics to not only build upon, also to fall back on.


Steve

 

[CZ52GUY]

Thanks Steve

Agreed on all counts

Safe shooting,

CZ52'