Shotgun no good for HD?

[figment]

waiting for them to find you. thats an extreme advantage.

 

[Pancho]

figment, I'll admit that there are some holes in the NRA's strategy but a commander that can chose the battlefield is most often the victor. The movie also stresses that as one should have a family known plan for a fire one should also have a family known plan in case of an intruder.
This is not an accurate quote from anyone I know but on the other hand.....The best laid battle plans go to hell as soon as the first shot is fired.

 

[figment]

Poncho, agreed. I remember reading somewhere recently about a National training program for LE that has a clearing exercise. Each year they run it and for so many years no one has ever been able to survive except one and IIRC he was a supervisor for NASA security.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I've taken some shotgun training classes. It's money well spent. In one of the classes we did night shooting. We tried some handheld flashlights. After that, it was up to us if we wanted to continue to use the handheld flashlight or to use the light mounted on our shotgun. I had a Surefire forearm on my shotgun. After shooting both ways, there is no doubt in my mind the better way is to use the light mounted onto the gun. Yes the Surefire forearm is expensive but IMO it is money well spent. I do practice both ways just in case. Shotgun plus Surefire foreend is still less than the backup pistol plus the mounted light on the pistol.

 

[bennadatto]

I agree that most "in-home" investigation will be as a result of something bumping in the NIGHT. I also agree that a flashlight in a dark room = awesome target for the bad guys!

So let's scrap all this tactical flashlight, 1.21 gigawatt lumen Tom Foolery. How about night lights...like the kind in the electrical outlet...the kind that stay on all night...the kind that don't add extra variables and weight to your home defense weapon.

For my buck, that's the easiest way to turn a no-light environment into a pretty-ok-light environment. Of course, YMMV.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Like the Kobayashi Maru exercise in Star Trek, the students are supposed to fail the house-clearing class to put the fear of God in them -- if you think they're a bunch of Rambo's AFTER they get out, you should see these idiots when they go INTO a police academy. A buddy of mine actually DID pass the test, but then someone stuck a gun over the wall although it was supposed to be in a house, after the test was over, and they "failed" him anyway...

BTW, what does a police officer smell when he's on duty!?

Al

 

[Balog]

My most persistent thought when house clearing in Iraq was how easy it would be for someone to kill me without me seeing them. Of course, if someone breaks into my house they're in the position I was in. The advantage is to the defender.

Oh, and I loved my weaponlight, but that was on a rifle I could use effectively one handed.

 

[Fred Fuller]

No bad guys are ever gonna yank your phone line out of the wall before they break in. Or take the receiver off the hook on the first phone extension they find. That just happens in the movies, right?

And no bad guys are ever gonna yank your electric meter base and kill the power to your house, either. That's just a Hollywood thing, everyone knows people who break into houses don't ever plan ahead.

So, how are those night lights working now that the power is off?

lpl

 

[figment]

the momentary transfer switch senses a loss of commercial power and battery backup kicks in.
or, you can have non-lethal flash lights deployed in every room. (A must for me as there are a lot of times I need one even with the lights on.)

or just go "silence of the lambs" on them with your NV goggles.

 

[Army of Don]

No bad guys are ever gonna yank your phone line out of the wall before they break in. Or take the receiver off the hook on the first phone extension they find. That just happens in the movies, right?

And no bad guys are ever gonna yank your electric meter base and kill the power to your house, either. That's just a Hollywood thing, everyone knows people who break into houses don't ever plan ahead.

Most won't. The biggest threat to the average homeowner is the smash-and-grab type of robbery, and typically those goons aren't going to plan that far ahead. They're going to break your window, ransack the place for stuff they can pawn, then get out as fast as they can. To your advantage, most of those happen when you're not home or when they think you're not home, so simply alerting them to your presence will usually be enough to scare them off. They don't want a confrontation any more than you do, in general.

On the other hand, the Hollywood-style home invasion DOES happen, just far less frequently, and with good reason. Bad guys that cut phone lines and disconnect power are after something more than just your big screen TV and your wife's diamonds; they know you're home, and they're specifically acting to neutralize your defenses. The question you should ask is "why?" Are you somebody important? What would such criminals want? I suppose a super tactical advanced army ranger infantry room clearing class would help, but your best weapon in that situation is a cell phone to call for backup from the local police.

 

[shockwave]

So let's scrap all this tactical flashlight, 1.21 gigawatt lumen Tom Foolery. How about night lights...like the kind in the electrical outlet

Oh, I wouldn't toss out the tactical flashlight so quickly. Let's look at this from the BG's perspective: house is dark, you're skulking around, fiddling with a window, whatever. Homeowner says "freeze" you turn and you are completely blinded. You can't see anything except a hot spotlight and are disoriented, and even if you have a gun you won't be able to aim it and will be turning your head away. After you turn your head away, the after-glare will still have you blinded for several seconds.

That's working better for me than nightlights. Just sayin'!

From the defender's perspective, you have a perp whose head is turning away from you and you have a well illuminated target. Far as I can tell, anything in the 200-300 lumens range is going to cause physical pain.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Oh, I wouldn't toss out the tactical flashlight so quickly... Far as I can tell, anything in the 200-300 lumens range is going to cause physical pain.

Yeah, mostly in your pocket.
I think I'll wait for it to come out on video...
Al

 

[Mr. T]

What do you do if you have children in the house....you can't very well leave them undefended against some perp coming into your house? I would be in the position of having to go out to meet the threat and you can be damn sure I wouldn't be carrying a freakin' flash light to give them something to aim at.

 

[Jack2427]

Been gone a while, had to go make a buck. After reading some of the above comments some of which are really good advice, and some not so good, I just have to kick in my .02-in a friendly like kind of way. Sooooooooo:

1. You had better identify your target before you shoot anything, unless you want to spend some time in close confines with a very lovable guy named Turk. Or in your own personal hell if you shoot/kill a loved one.

2. The operative word in home defense is DEFENSE. That means take a defensive position. There is no one, including myself, on this forum who is capable of safely clearing his own home alone, unless he lives in a one room cabin out in booneyland, and that may be iffy. If you go offensive, you risk life and limb, and possible legal problems. Between my wife and myself, we have 45 years of active military, and 40+ years of LE experience-all of it in high activity/ high speed areas. My wife is still on her big city SWAT team (she fits in spaces big guys won't), and we have probably have cleared thousands of buildings between us, and we have agreed on a static defensive position for defense of our homes, that keeps us and the kids/grandkids safe, and lessens the possibility of any gunfire. Remember, ANY gunfire in ANY home is dangerous to ALL in the dwelling, your mission is to prevent gunfire if at all possible.

3. The only thinghies on our defensive weapons are a weapon mounted light, handgun or long gun, and a butt cuff for the shotguns with ammo. The light will help much more than it hurts or hinders-remember-defense!

4. Birdshot is for birds, and sometimes it don't work on them! If you are going to shoot, shoot with something that will stop your enemy, not just hurt him. Our HD weapons consist of: 12 gauge, .38 special, and .45 ACP. The 12 gauge load is buckshot, (I like #4 or #1 for indoors).

5. Light is your friend: We have motion activated outdoor lights (the solar powered battery type, and regular hardwire). Inside I have installed numerous of those LED AAA powered motion lights, they are cheap, and fit almost anywhere, anyone walking through the house will trip them, letting us know where they are, they are also nice for when we enter before we turn on the lights. Had them for 9 months now and have yet to replace a battery.

6. I am prepared to defend my loved ones lives with my own, but I am not going out by being silly. If a BG wants me he is going to have to come and get me, and I am quite certain he will fail because I will know where he is, and he will not know where I am, and I will be well defended and the BG will be prowling around. I am NOT going to try to scare him by clanking a pump gun around, I will try to stop him dead in his tracks if he becomes a threat-even a little threat.

7. Speaking of threats, you are going to have to be able to articulate the threat you were defending yourself against, sometimes to not so sympathetic authorities. It will be more difficult if you have been aggressively prowling around looking to shoot the BG and not trying to stay away from him till the police get there.

8. Speaking of the police, you had better have called them(from a legalistic point of view), and when they are on the scene, and you are sure they are the police (by calling 911 back if need be). You want to notify them where you are and that you are armed. Then when you present yourself to the police be UNarmed, no sense in getting killed accidently after everything is all over.

I know someone will take exception to my viewpoint, and no doubt there are some folks out there who have a better idea, to each his own. However I plan to survive a HD event, and have no legal problems thereafter, and most importantly, have all my people come out safe and sound (and not too traumatized).

 

[Al LaVodka]

...and you can be damn sure I wouldn't be carrying a freakin' flash light to give them something to aim at.

T;
Fact: to see you need light in certain wavelengths. Fact: without a flashlight you have dangerously limited your capabilities and certain choices. With one, if configured correctly, you have the choice of if, when, and how to (with a little training) use it.
Al