Should I buy an AR now or wait for the AWB sunset?

[ShootAndHunt]

I expect to get enough money soon for an AR (I kept buying some surplus rifles and other stuff in the past months, kind of annoying.) I am looking at the Bushmasterb XM15 E2S A3 20" . Thanks for you guys' recommendation I find it from the AIM, but I do have the following questions:

1. Is the Bushmaster rifle from AIM usually good? I don't want to get a lemon and send it back to Bushmaster?

2. Most importantly, I don't mind the heavy barrel on this XM15, but I may want to buy an upper later after the AWB sunset, which might be 16" barrel with lighter contour, flash hidder, ... , all the cool things. My question is: Is it legal to put such a post "post ban" uppper on the post ban lower? or I have to wait until Sep. to buy a post post ban rifle to make this legal?

3. What is the advantage and disadvantage of a heavy barrel vs. a standard government barrel in a semi-auto AR?

Thanks, and wish the AWB never back again!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

1. Is the Bushmaster rifle from AIM usually good? I don't want to get a lemon and send it back to Bushmaster?

It is the same as a Bushmaster from anywhere else. Bushmaster generally makes a quality product; but like everyone else they produce their share of lemons.

2. My question is: Is it legal to put such a post "post ban" uppper on the post ban lower? or I have to wait until Sep. to buy a post post ban rifle to make this legal?

Until September 14, 2004 comes without any ban renewal, you cannot legally assemble such an upper on a gun that did not already meet the federal definition of an AW on September 13, 1994.

I certainly would encourage you to stick to the exact letter of the law on this, despite the fact that ATF rarely attempts to enforce it and it is usually only brought as an add-on charge to more serious felonies. Just because I see about a shooter a month with an illegally configured post-ban rifle shooting on a public range does not mean it would be a good idea to risk a federal felony and permanent revocation of firearms rights by building your pre-ban rifle now and waiting until September 14th to bring it out of the closet.

3. What is the advantage and disadvantage of a heavy barrel vs. a standard government barrel in a semi-auto AR?

Theoretically, the HBAR should be stiffer and handle heat better; but I don't really see any advantage to a heavy barrel unless you are concerned with fractions of an inch in accuracy. Steve Smith shoots more matches where high levels of accuracy are demanded and can probably detail this better; but I generally cannot tell the difference between the two barrels except that the Govt' profile is noticeably lighter.

EDITED TO ADD:

Thanks to helpful members I just noticed I misread the question. Once the current ban expires without being replaced by anything, there is no pre or post because there is no ban. You can have flashhiders, bayonet lugs and other evil features on any lower regardless of when it was manufactured.

 

[Litefoot]

I agree that there is no real need for HBAR except for target shooting. One of the goals in developing the AR rifle was to make it lightweight, hence the use of plastics. Outfitting one with a heavy barrel cancels out that one particular advantage. My personal AR (16" A3 HBAR) is heavier than the +20" units I carried in the Army!

 

[CleverNickname]

2. My question is: Is it legal to put such a post "post ban" uppper on the post ban lower? or I have to wait until Sep. to buy a post post ban rifle to make this legal?

Until September 14, 2004 comes without any ban renewal, you cannot legally assemble such an upper on a gun that did not already meet the federal definition of an AW on September 13, 1994.

I think what he was asking was if he buys a post-ban rifle right now, if it's legal to add evil features after the ban goes away, or whether current post-bans always have to stay post-ban.

As to the OP, the answer is that once the ban expires there will be no law banning evil features, so whether the AR is a pre-ban, post-ban, or post-expiration rifle, it will be legal to put all the evil features you want on it.

 

[Kaxter]

I had been debating on whether or not to buy a new AR now or wait until the sunset, and I am going to wait. I really feel that ban is going away, and waiting a few more months for my factory FH and retractable stock is worth it to me.

 

[Litefoot]

Here's my thinking (uh oh, Litefoot's thinking again)...I think prices are already starting to drop on pre-owned post-ban rifles as folks try to beat the rush (and glut) of post-ban sales when sellers are looking for cash to fund their post-post-ban purchases. The only evil feature that I want on a post-ban AR is the addition of a flash hider. So I'm looking for a good deal now (and there are some out there) and I'll add an after-market FH after the sunset.

 

[MrAcheson]

I'm waiting as well. The Post-ban stuff will be worthless after the sunset except perhaps as a collectors item.

I'd be careful about buying a pre-ban upper and waiting. If you don't have a pre-ban lower to put your pre-ban upper on, you can still get in serious trouble for it.

 

[CleverNickname]

The Post-ban stuff will be worthless after the sunset except perhaps as a collectors item.

Worthless? Hardly. For ARs we're talking $50 to thread the muzzle, $5 for an A2 flash suppressor, and ~$80 for a decent collapsible stock. You could also swap out the front sight base (~$30) without too much trouble if you really wanted the bayonet lug.

 

[MrAcheson]

Considering that you will be able to buy pre-bans for what post-bans cost now, the price of post-bans is going to drop by about $150-200 according to your calculations. Not worthless, but thats a pretty big drop especially since we are talking used guns. Granted in 50 years collectors might snap them up, but probably not. Ban states will still have require post-ban features, so there is never going to be a huge shortage to spark collector demand.

 

[Litefoot]

MrAcheson,
Your statement would be correct if everyone wanted all the evil features and were highly concerned about their value retention as collectibles. I can't speak for everyone else, but I personally could be perfectly happy with a post-ban AR without FH or BL, especially if I could get a pre-owned unit for $200 less than today. A $450-500 post-ban Bushmaster? You betcha! Sign me up. If the post-ban rifles become the "poor mans" AR, then I guess I'll be a poor man. I'm a shooter, not a collector.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Man this subject gets beat over every few days now and should get worse the close to the end.

my advice is you will be able to get the pre-ban hope to soon expire uppers for just a few dollars more as they you can legally buy them now as long as you do not put them on a post ban lower.
And I mean for only a few dollars more .

complete rock river lowers now run from $325 to a little over $400 (nm goes for $525) and the prices are not going to change.
I would think the company's will change how many of each they make as the demand grows after it sunsets.

as far as prices dropping on pre-bans Yes they are going down on non colt products but you do not see any changes in prices on pre-ban colts and if you do it is a few and far between thing.

Do any of you have any sp1 or other pre-ban colts you want to sell for lets say under $800 if you do and they are in nice condition and all original please email me. if its a grand do not bother as I see them for that quite often anyway.

As far as magazines for ar15's after the ban. I could see the prices leveling off but new ones are still going to run you over $15 or more but you might get a break on the used ones for awhile like in the $10 range as even the pre-bans are dropping slowly to that level.
My cost on new usgi post ban mags right now is like $11.56 so why would I sell you mags that are new for under what I pay for them?

 

[Onslaught]

My suggestion is to at least buy a lower NOW....

Sure, we all think and hope the ban goes un-renewed, but what if it is renewed, or worse, REPLACED?? I remember the rush on AR's before the ban passed, and then BIG TIME after it passed but before it went into effect. I paid $989 for a Bushmaster in early '94, and it would have been at least $200 less 6 months prior.

Buy the lower now... You can get one for less than $200 not counting FFL fees. It won't have a stock with it, so if you want a telestock, you can get a real one without blowing money on an old one.

If the ban goes away, but a pre-ban upper for it.

If the ban gets renewed, or replaced with a stiffer law, you already have your lower, so any rush on AR's won't affect you since you already have your "legal firearm". Then just assemble it before the "new date", take a picture of it and have it notarized so you can prove that it was assembled into a complete rifle before the cutoff date.

I actually recommend doing that to anyone who has a post-ban that they convert to a "no-ban" assault weapon. Those with pre-bans can always call the factory and prove that it as a "pre-ban". But if you've got a NO BAN, and then 6 months or 2 years from now a NEW ban gets passed, and all no-bans that were AW's before the ban are "new pre-bans", well how are you going to prove your post-ban was converted to a "new pre-ban" without some sort of effort on your part? You can't call the factory because it left their shop as a post-ban without evil features.

Gotta cover that 6.

 

[NEtracker]

No Price Drop around here! Prices are the same and probably will rise on pre and post!
Mass. Legislature is threatening us with a new one, banning all "AW's", including the AR, and doing away with the "pre-ban" loophole. They also seem to want to add everything to their ban list (SAR's, SKS's, M1 Carbines, maybe even Garands) . Dealers are really using this as a selling point. (sorry, for getting slightly off-topic)

 

[Bainx]

Uppers, lowers, pre, post...bla, bla, bla.

Buy after the thing sunsets.
Get the bayonet lug, the flash-hider and all the rest.
DO NOT settle for what the panzies ask you to.
A Vietnam veteran friend of mine at work asked me what was so important about a bayonet lug and flash hider. I almost vomited on the spot! HE more than anybody should know.

Think about it, if we had settled for less than King George's rifles, where would we be now?

 

[SapperLeader]

I debated about this very issue for a while. I ended up purchasing a 16' a3 bushmaster last august. I have the rifle now, so I can shoot it and enjoy owning it. If the ban expires, I can make modifications to it as I please. If the ban is renewed, I still have a semi automatic rifle that is just missing a few cosmetic features. It seems silly that everyone has been making fun of the ban for the last ten years due to its classification of guns by cosmetic features, and yet people are hesitating to buy a excellent rifle based on those very same features. Dont get me wrong, I really want a flash supressor and folding stock, but more importantly I wanted a rifle.

 

[one45auto]

Think about it, if we had settled for less than King George's rifles, where would we be now?

Drinking tea and saying "God save the Queen!", I expect.

 

[Selfdfenz]

I think prices on some models already shows signs of going down.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=18514533

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=18389911

Don't know what these will end up selling for but the list seems lower than it was this time last year. Probably should have searched completed deals.

S-

BTW I have nothing to do with gunbroker, these aren't my rifles and I am not trying to sell them or anything else.

 

[Hutt]

If the ban sunsets I think it will be some time before prices will stabilize in the AR market place. Judging for the past years posts there seems to be the sentiment of "wait until September" to buy post or pre-ban merchadice. I think sales will be brisk after September( pending the sunset or renewal) for major AR components keeping prices where they are or slightly elevated until the sunset buyers have made their purchaces.

 

[TooTaxed]

Don't count on the ban sunsetting. Feinstein & Company will most likely tack at least an extension to the ban on some other bill...as they did this spring on the bill intended to protect firearms mfgrs from frivilous lawsuits...leading to its withdrawal.

If you want the ban to die, you'll HAVE to become politically active...!!!
...or it won't happen.

 

[Bainx]

Listen to TOOTAXED.
He has got it right.

 

[MrAcheson]

Don't count on the ban sunsetting. Feinstein & Company will most likely tack at least an extension to the ban on some other bill...as they did this spring on the bill intended to protect firearms mfgrs from frivilous lawsuits...leading to its withdrawal.

What bill will they tack it on to? Whatever it is, it has to be related to crime/gun control. There aren't any of those coming and without them there is no way to renew it through amendment. The antis have already lost this issue at the federal level. If it was going to get passed it would have to be in committee by now or tacked onto a related bill in committee by now. Ain't no such animal at the federal level. Now the fight is with the states.

 

[ckyllo]

I remember a while ago getting a NRA-ILA email asking me to call/write/email my congress critters for support of the DC gun ownership bill. They could also try putting it onto the Patriot Act 2 that is comming up soon. Both of them could have the AW ban attached to it and when the PA2 will pass cause the Prez will push that till the end. Buy now and enjoy the rifle having a barrel threaded isnt a big deal and if you want a BL DPMS has a clamp on one for $20. The stock is very easy to replace and (IMHO) I like the full stock better After the ban for what it costs to update is less that the enjoyment of shooting the rifle for the next 118 days:13 hours :46 minutes:29,28,27,26....

 

[ny32182]

Mine are post ban. If the ban expires, they go off to KKF or similar for threaded barrels/bayo lugs. No big deal.

 

[MrAcheson]

According to the Senate website, PATRIOT II was never formally introduced as a bill it was only put into committee in draft form. Its dead for this legislative session at least. Similarly the Citizen's Self Defense Act (or whatever it was called) was a 2003 bill and is dead. It has not been reintroduced.

 

[ckyllo]

I had not heard that on the bills I hope they stay that way! The PA2 can stay that way forever, would be nice for the DC people to have the 2nd ammend back but not if it hoses the rest of us. Good shootin'