Should I Pay Someone To Reload For Me?
- Thread starter Mike1234567
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Frozen North
Member
A Lee Anniversary set can get you going for under $200 including the components, book, and dies.
If you are a casual center-fire rifle shooter, this may be all you ever need or want. With the prices of ammo for calibers like 7mm Mag and the like, it will pay for itself in short order. You will also tighten your groups and shoot more.
If you are a casual center-fire rifle shooter, this may be all you ever need or want. With the prices of ammo for calibers like 7mm Mag and the like, it will pay for itself in short order. You will also tighten your groups and shoot more.
Lost Sheep
Member
Check your cost figures again.
Gamestalker and Frozen North and a couple of others are right on.
Add up the retail price of all the ammunition you want to have on hand. Then add up the price of a basic handloading setup (you can get a REALLY NICE setup for under $300, $200 if you shop carefully and under $100 if your really scrimp, but those prices are without compromising on convenience too much and not compromising on safety or precision at all).
By the time you load 10 to 12 boxes of ammunition, you will likely have reached the break-even point, depending on the cartridge.
My friend loads 500 S&W, which locally here cost $3 each or $60 a box of 20 or $150 per box of 50. He could pay for a really fine setup in 4 boxes ($600- $250 for the hardware, $250 for the components -really REALLY premium bullets- and afford to pay himself $25 per hour to load for himself -no withholding taxes).
Now, if he was loading .40 S&W or 9mm he might be better off to buy from whoever supplies our local police with their training ammunition.
If I were in your situation, I might be on the fence about reloading myself or not, I would try it. Go to a gun show and see if you can get a used single-stage O-frame press (extremely rare to find a bent one) of cast iron, get a decent balance beam scale with a powder trickler and a set of dies for your most expensive caliber that is fun to shoot and a couple of loading manuals. Then try out the concept. All the other necessities can be done with expedient methods (case lube can be spread with a kitchen sponge, or fingers, for example) until you decide if this is for you or not.
If you decide it is not for you, then you are out very little, you can re-sell the gear for about what it cost you and move on with your life. But, handloading is often found to be very relaxing, gives a degree of control over your shooting impossible to achieve any other way and encourages you to a deeper appreciation and understanding of your firearms and ballistics.
Good Luck. Thanks for reading. Thanks for asking our advice.
Lost Sheep
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
Gamestalker and Frozen North and a couple of others are right on.
Add up the retail price of all the ammunition you want to have on hand. Then add up the price of a basic handloading setup (you can get a REALLY NICE setup for under $300, $200 if you shop carefully and under $100 if your really scrimp, but those prices are without compromising on convenience too much and not compromising on safety or precision at all).
By the time you load 10 to 12 boxes of ammunition, you will likely have reached the break-even point, depending on the cartridge.
My friend loads 500 S&W, which locally here cost $3 each or $60 a box of 20 or $150 per box of 50. He could pay for a really fine setup in 4 boxes ($600- $250 for the hardware, $250 for the components -really REALLY premium bullets- and afford to pay himself $25 per hour to load for himself -no withholding taxes).
Now, if he was loading .40 S&W or 9mm he might be better off to buy from whoever supplies our local police with their training ammunition.
If I were in your situation, I might be on the fence about reloading myself or not, I would try it. Go to a gun show and see if you can get a used single-stage O-frame press (extremely rare to find a bent one) of cast iron, get a decent balance beam scale with a powder trickler and a set of dies for your most expensive caliber that is fun to shoot and a couple of loading manuals. Then try out the concept. All the other necessities can be done with expedient methods (case lube can be spread with a kitchen sponge, or fingers, for example) until you decide if this is for you or not.
If you decide it is not for you, then you are out very little, you can re-sell the gear for about what it cost you and move on with your life. But, handloading is often found to be very relaxing, gives a degree of control over your shooting impossible to achieve any other way and encourages you to a deeper appreciation and understanding of your firearms and ballistics.
Good Luck. Thanks for reading. Thanks for asking our advice.
Lost Sheep
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
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Mike1234567
member
I'm so tired tonight... I need to wait until tomorrow to reply to everyone.
scythefwd
Member
A good starter kit is under 150. Under 200 with dies for 3 cailbers.. maybe all 4. You can load for under a dollar a round. You'll have saved enough money vs. buying the ammo by the time you hit that first 1k stockpile.
I got into reloading not because I liked the idea but to save money. I spent about 250 on my setup. Ammo tipped with nosler partitons are about 45 a box around here. I can load em up for about 15 a box. I'll break even about 8 boxes in... Only 6 more to go
.
Handgun ammo is where it gets cheap... I figured I could do 1k rounds for my .40 for about 120 vs. buying around 250 rounds of cheap plinking ammo.
An old CH press should run you $20, a scale $15, case trimmer $4, pilots for the trimmer $3, dies $25. You can use an old case for a trickler. Powder measure $25. Thats all you need for loading though I recommend a good book and a loading block which you can make with a drill bit and a piece of left over 2x4. hodgdon posts it's load data online.
The old CH press probably will be a C style single stage press, but it handles my .30-06 cases just fine (mines a CH 204).
I got into reloading not because I liked the idea but to save money. I spent about 250 on my setup. Ammo tipped with nosler partitons are about 45 a box around here. I can load em up for about 15 a box. I'll break even about 8 boxes in... Only 6 more to go
. Handgun ammo is where it gets cheap... I figured I could do 1k rounds for my .40 for about 120 vs. buying around 250 rounds of cheap plinking ammo.
An old CH press should run you $20, a scale $15, case trimmer $4, pilots for the trimmer $3, dies $25. You can use an old case for a trickler. Powder measure $25. Thats all you need for loading though I recommend a good book and a loading block which you can make with a drill bit and a piece of left over 2x4. hodgdon posts it's load data online.
The old CH press probably will be a C style single stage press, but it handles my .30-06 cases just fine (mines a CH 204).
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redbullitt
Member
I think it depends on who you are buying it from, at least for me. My dad and I load for each other. I do not have a problem at all with it. We usually work up the loads together.
BUT I will say that I would not have a stranger do it.
BUT I will say that I would not have a stranger do it.
amlevin
Member
I find it somewhat funny that that some will say "Don't shoot anyone else's reloads" yet recommend HSM reloads.
I saw a Beretta 92 destroyed while shooting some HSM reloads. The frame, grip, and magazine were all broken and the entire right side of the pistol bulged out about 1/2".
So much for safe reloads just because the company's been around 50 years.
I reload for a friend and he gets the same loads and calibers I shoot. Costs me about an hour's time on my 650 to build him several months worth of pistol ammo. All he does is pay for the components. In return for my time he brings me about twice as many pieces of brass than he actually shoots (he cleans up real well around himself at the range).
Unless one is reloading "as a business" there is no prohibition against doing so for others. As for quality, back to HSM and all the other "Commercial Reloaders", they too have problems and then when you file a claim they point out the fine print on the box that says the buyer assumes all risk.
I saw a Beretta 92 destroyed while shooting some HSM reloads. The frame, grip, and magazine were all broken and the entire right side of the pistol bulged out about 1/2".
So much for safe reloads just because the company's been around 50 years.
I reload for a friend and he gets the same loads and calibers I shoot. Costs me about an hour's time on my 650 to build him several months worth of pistol ammo. All he does is pay for the components. In return for my time he brings me about twice as many pieces of brass than he actually shoots (he cleans up real well around himself at the range).
Unless one is reloading "as a business" there is no prohibition against doing so for others. As for quality, back to HSM and all the other "Commercial Reloaders", they too have problems and then when you file a claim they point out the fine print on the box that says the buyer assumes all risk.
Mike1234567
member
You folks are helping me a lot. I do appreciate it.
I didn't want to get into reloading but you've encouraged me to take a serious look at it. One caliber I failed to mention is .500 S&W. Also, if I get a .458 SOCOM I'll probably forego the 45-70 Govt. So the list of calibers for which commercial loads "currently" cost more than $1 each are only three deep...
.500 S&W
.458 SOCOM
.375 H&H Mag
I'll be pricing components in the next few days. Hopefully, I'll be able to reload these pricey cartridges for less than $1 each. Oh boy, now I can fill up the rest of my empty ammo cans!!
I didn't want to get into reloading but you've encouraged me to take a serious look at it. One caliber I failed to mention is .500 S&W. Also, if I get a .458 SOCOM I'll probably forego the 45-70 Govt. So the list of calibers for which commercial loads "currently" cost more than $1 each are only three deep...
.500 S&W
.458 SOCOM
.375 H&H Mag
I'll be pricing components in the next few days. Hopefully, I'll be able to reload these pricey cartridges for less than $1 each. Oh boy, now I can fill up the rest of my empty ammo cans!!
For Amlevin,
If you accept any payment for those reloads (including your friends just paying for the components) it is my understanding that you are indeed operating as an unlicensed ammunition manufacturer and subject to BATFE involvement?
Are you actually going to get a knock on your door? Probably not, but you still retain the liability and exposure to the potential legal hassle. IANAL just your average scaredy cat who strives to stay out of the way of lawyers and prosecutors - lol
If you accept any payment for those reloads (including your friends just paying for the components) it is my understanding that you are indeed operating as an unlicensed ammunition manufacturer and subject to BATFE involvement?
Are you actually going to get a knock on your door? Probably not, but you still retain the liability and exposure to the potential legal hassle. IANAL just your average scaredy cat who strives to stay out of the way of lawyers and prosecutors - lol
sixgunner455
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If I didn't reload, almost all of my target shooting would be done with a .22. As it is, I still shoot .22 most, but with reloading, I can actually afford to shoot other calibers.
And, my loads are usually more accurate than factory. I can't see a reason for a careful, prudent person not to reload.
And, my loads are usually more accurate than factory. I can't see a reason for a careful, prudent person not to reload.
Mike1234567
member
Randy,
What if the recipient merely provides the components and no cash is exchanged?
What if the recipient merely provides the components and no cash is exchanged?
The reloader could still be liable for any damages if it kabooms but I do not know if they could face a debate over 'payment' definitions with the BATFE if ever found out. I realize this starts to fall into the HIGHLY unlikely hypothetical scenarios, HIGHLY unlikely.
But highly unlikely still means that it is likely for some poor sap who gets themselves jammed up. I recall the story of a shooter who had an AR fail and go full auto for a very short burst. Yeppers - BIG time jam up with the Feds.
I'm thinking that if a person wanted to pay a stranger to reload for them on the side, the reloader might well charge enough that it would be almost less money to shoot surplus or Herters?
I dunno and at the end of the day it won't change the price of MY corn flakes one single penny. I shoot my reloads and let family member shoot my reloads. I do shoot my brother's handloads in his cowboy action firearms. I won't buy generic reloads at a gun show. What I do pleases me and I'm the only one I have to keep happy - lol
But highly unlikely still means that it is likely for some poor sap who gets themselves jammed up. I recall the story of a shooter who had an AR fail and go full auto for a very short burst. Yeppers - BIG time jam up with the Feds.
I'm thinking that if a person wanted to pay a stranger to reload for them on the side, the reloader might well charge enough that it would be almost less money to shoot surplus or Herters?
I dunno and at the end of the day it won't change the price of MY corn flakes one single penny. I shoot my reloads and let family member shoot my reloads. I do shoot my brother's handloads in his cowboy action firearms. I won't buy generic reloads at a gun show. What I do pleases me and I'm the only one I have to keep happy - lol
IdahoSkies
Member
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Reloading is like underwear, you need to be real comfortable with the other person before using theirs.
For the most part reloading doesn't save you money until you are a long way down the road. What reloading has done for me is help me enjoy my range time more, and I get way better accuracy out of my reloads than what I got from store bought ammo. (at least the kind I can regularly afford). And I shot more.
If you want to a) short more and/or b) get more performance from your firearm, then get into it. Otherwise just bite the bullet and buy your ammo in bulk. Cost wise you will end up somewhere the same (especially if you are like most of us and just keep acquiring more stuff so the cost hasn't really met parity yet).
For the most part reloading doesn't save you money until you are a long way down the road. What reloading has done for me is help me enjoy my range time more, and I get way better accuracy out of my reloads than what I got from store bought ammo. (at least the kind I can regularly afford). And I shot more.
If you want to a) short more and/or b) get more performance from your firearm, then get into it. Otherwise just bite the bullet and buy your ammo in bulk. Cost wise you will end up somewhere the same (especially if you are like most of us and just keep acquiring more stuff so the cost hasn't really met parity yet).
Lost Sheep
Member
Go for it. Better than melons, Mike1234567
I started reloading at the same instant I bought my first firearm, for I knew that I could not afford to shoot over-the-counter ammunition. But I quickly discovered that loading my own provided a tranquility that was Zen-like. Very relaxing. I found myself concentrated, focused and very calm. I enjoyed it for its own sake. I did not realize this for some time, but it did grow on me.
There is a difference between handloading and reloading. I suspect, though, that if you have to ask, you won't understand the answer. Not until you do it for a while. Or, you might get it right away. Depends on your personality.
What I recommended before still stands. If you buy your gear carefully, you won't have much at risk because resale value of loading gear is pretty stable. That applies if you give up loading or decide to switch out your equipment.
IdahoSkies is very right, partly.
I recommend the journey to you, too. I have read some of your other posts (hence the melon reference) and believe you have the temperament for it.
Lost Sheep
I started reloading at the same instant I bought my first firearm, for I knew that I could not afford to shoot over-the-counter ammunition. But I quickly discovered that loading my own provided a tranquility that was Zen-like. Very relaxing. I found myself concentrated, focused and very calm. I enjoyed it for its own sake. I did not realize this for some time, but it did grow on me.
There is a difference between handloading and reloading. I suspect, though, that if you have to ask, you won't understand the answer. Not until you do it for a while. Or, you might get it right away. Depends on your personality.
What I recommended before still stands. If you buy your gear carefully, you won't have much at risk because resale value of loading gear is pretty stable. That applies if you give up loading or decide to switch out your equipment.
IdahoSkies is very right, partly.
I got WAY past the break-even point a few years ago. Then I decided to repopulate my bench with the absolute, no-compromise best equipment for my needs. Now I have a few more years to go to meet a new break-even point. However, I don't regret it one bit. I enjoy my loading activities more now, can produce greater quantities and do it with less stress since my equipment fits me better than the stuff I bought 30 years ago when I did not really know my own mind. But I had to go through the experience to find myself. But I got there eventually.
I recommend the journey to you, too. I have read some of your other posts (hence the melon reference) and believe you have the temperament for it.
Lost Sheep
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I reload and it is much cheeper with those cals you listed, atf.gov will give you all the info about reload for profit and the companies that can. There is an exception about loading anothers brass fyi. If you don't go the reloading route at least make sure that brass is getting used most ranges sell it as once fired if they dont save it up and sell or give it to someone that does load we always swapping stuff. If you look bet you could cut the cost by half or more reloading tho and you will always has rounds to shoot. Anyway you go good luck and be safe.
Mike1234567
member
Thanks, folks. I'll be researching this for awhile before buying anything. I try to be extremely careful with my decisions of what to buy regarding the best compromises for my needs at reasonable prices. This stated, I still mess up from time-to-time.
I'll probably only reload... I mean handload... for the priciest calibers. Heck some of those cost about $4 per round. Even if the components cost $1 per round that's a $3K savings just for one caliber to reach my goal of 1000 rounds cached.
Finding "affordable" new or good once-fired brass for .375 H&H, .458 SOCOM, and .500 Mag... wish me luck... LOL!!
I'll probably only reload... I mean handload
... for the priciest calibers. Heck some of those cost about $4 per round. Even if the components cost $1 per round that's a $3K savings just for one caliber to reach my goal of 1000 rounds cached.Finding "affordable" new or good once-fired brass for .375 H&H, .458 SOCOM, and .500 Mag... wish me luck... LOL!!
mgmorden
Member
Then you WILL be reloading
. (no harm there - I'm mostly in the "reloader" camp myself).What they typically mean by the difference is that a reloader is a person who does this for cost reasons. IE, I reload because I want to shoot a lot and factory ammo is expensive. I don't experiment much - I find a good working load and produce it in quantity to save money.
"Handloaders" typically aren't doing it for money savings or necessarily in quantity. They go to their benches and work up multiple batches of ammo using all sorts of different powders, charges, and seating depths (as well as with different bullets) to find the perfect balance that works best.
The handloader is on the quest for perfect ammo. The reloader is on the quest for cheap but workable ammo.
Mike1234567
member
Ahh... okay then I'll be "reloading" because my primary concern is saving money and having "good" ammunition. I'm not looking for "supreme accuracy". This stated, I'll do the best I can on a limited budget and with an ultra-short attention span. Sorry if I'm a disappointment, Lost Sheep.
amlevin
Member
RandyP
I'm sure glad you said you aren't a lawyer. As for reloading for someone who reimburses you for components, read the rules regarding FFL's and Manufacturing ammo. One has to "be in the business of manufacturing ammo" before a License is required. I seriously doubt even a bureaucrat from the ATF could make a case for someone "being in the business" if they don't advertise, make a profit, and only do so for one or two people.
I'm sure glad you said you aren't a lawyer. As for reloading for someone who reimburses you for components, read the rules regarding FFL's and Manufacturing ammo. One has to "be in the business of manufacturing ammo" before a License is required. I seriously doubt even a bureaucrat from the ATF could make a case for someone "being in the business" if they don't advertise, make a profit, and only do so for one or two people.
RustyFN
Member
Wow reading that makes me glad I don't wear underwear.
To the OP. I personally would not buy reloads from anybody. I won't shoot reloads from anybody I know except a couple close friends. I also don't let anybody shoot my reloads.
Lost Sheep
Member
I am not disappointed
I see that you DO discern the difference. Knowing that (and looking at your calibers) I suspect you will do both reloading and handloading before long.
Myself, I would qualify as a reloader. No shame in that at all.
By the way, welcome to loading. I have no doubt you will be ordering gear before the year is out.
Check out Kempf's Gun Shop. Sue Kempf is good people. Lee Breech-lock Classic Cast single stage press or Hornady's Breech-lock single stage will do you in fine style for those heavy caliber rounds at about 50-60 rounds per hour. If you want more speed than that, the Lee Classic Turret can triple that rate (with some practice and care).
Lost Sheep
p.s. Loading can lengthen your attention span, too. Make your teeth whiter and re-grow lost hair.
Not at all, Mike.Ahh... okay then I'll be "reloading" because my primary concern is saving money and having "good" ammunition. I'm not looking for "supreme accuracy". This stated, I'll do the best I can on a limited budget and with an ultra-short attention span. Sorry if I'm a disappointment, Lost Sheep.
I see that you DO discern the difference. Knowing that (and looking at your calibers) I suspect you will do both reloading and handloading before long.
Myself, I would qualify as a reloader. No shame in that at all.
By the way, welcome to loading. I have no doubt you will be ordering gear before the year is out.
Check out Kempf's Gun Shop. Sue Kempf is good people. Lee Breech-lock Classic Cast single stage press or Hornady's Breech-lock single stage will do you in fine style for those heavy caliber rounds at about 50-60 rounds per hour. If you want more speed than that, the Lee Classic Turret can triple that rate (with some practice and care).
Lost Sheep
p.s. Loading can lengthen your attention span, too. Make your teeth whiter and re-grow lost hair.
Twmaster
Member
I'm pretty poor these days. I got my setup on a shoe-string. Factory Sales has Lee Challenger kits with the press, scale, hand primer tool, Perfect powder dispenser, funnel, primer pocket tool, case deburr tool and a few other little things I cannot remember.
This kit was $115 to my door. Add ~$30 for a set of dies and you are off to the races.
I reload 9MM, 7.62 Tokarev, 8x57 Mauser and soonly will be loading 6.5-257 Roberts.
I could not afford to shoot much if I did not have this setup.
As an example, I can load 1000 9MM cases with hard cast lead bullets for about $110. Yup, 11 cents per round.
I can load my Tokarev ammo for about $160 per 1000.
I save at least 50% by reloading.
I round up every piece of brass within reach when I visit the range.
As others here have said it's kinda relaxing time.
Mikie! Try it. You'll like it!
This kit was $115 to my door. Add ~$30 for a set of dies and you are off to the races.
I reload 9MM, 7.62 Tokarev, 8x57 Mauser and soonly will be loading 6.5-257 Roberts.
I could not afford to shoot much if I did not have this setup.
As an example, I can load 1000 9MM cases with hard cast lead bullets for about $110. Yup, 11 cents per round.
I can load my Tokarev ammo for about $160 per 1000.
I save at least 50% by reloading.
I round up every piece of brass within reach when I visit the range.
As others here have said it's kinda relaxing time.
Mikie! Try it. You'll like it!
RustyFN
Member
I must not be loading enough then.
Missionary
Member
Greetings
Never pay anyone to do something you can do. The day will come when you will need to load your own and when that time arrizes you better have the tools to keep yourself functioning. That is why I cast my own, reload my own & shoot my own.
Mike in Peru
Never pay anyone to do something you can do. The day will come when you will need to load your own and when that time arrizes you better have the tools to keep yourself functioning. That is why I cast my own, reload my own & shoot my own.
Mike in Peru
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