Should you not reload or visit the gun range shortly before boarding a plane?

[jakemccoy]

TSA to Swab Airline Passengers' Hands in Search for Explosives

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?hpt=T1

Washington (CNN) -- To the list of instructions you hear at airport checkpoints, add this: "Put your palms forward, please."

The Transportation Security Administration soon will begin randomly swabbing passengers' hands at checkpoints and airport gates to test them for traces of explosives.

Previously, screeners swabbed some carry-on luggage and other objects as they searched for the needle in the security haystack -- components of terrorist bombs in an endless stream of luggage.

But after the Christmas Day attempted bombing of Northwest Flight 253 over Detroit, Michigan, the TSA began a program of swabbing passengers' hands, which could be contaminated by explosive materials, experts say. The TSA will greatly expand the swabbing in the coming weeks, the agency said...

 

[bushmaster1313]

Also need to watch out for spent casings ending up in places like pant cuffs!

 

[essayons21]

I've come straight off a demo range, where I was handling C4, TNT, and det cord(PETN), and got on a plane recently. My carry-on, which was at the range with me was swabbed, and nothing showed up. All I did was wash my hands after using the bathroom. And let me tell you, when you cut det cord, the PETN gets all over you. I was amazed that nothing showed up.

Another guy that was with me was held up for 1/2 hour because he had a M4 cleaning kit in his carry-on. Real threat there. Just confirms my suspicion that TSA is largely security theater.

I wouldn't worry too much about gunpowder, just wash your hands.

 

[svaz]

As long as they don't start using black lights - that could get a little embarrassing for the male passengers.

 

[duns]

If you can just wash your hands as said above and get rid of the evidence, it seems like a useless test.

I note that people are saying you must not be selected out for testing because of the way you look, e.g. Muslim or have red hair. I would have thought it entirely reasonable that people are selected at the discretion of an officer who for whatever reasons think they look suspicious -- on the basis of his/her instincts. If that turns out to be a disproportionate number of red-headed people, so what? However, it seems to be an ineffective measure anyway, I won't fuss about it.

 

[essayons21]

If you can just wash your hands as said above and get rid of the evidence, it seems like a useless test.

I should note that the backpack that I was cutting C4 on earlier in the day was swabbed and as far as I know nothing showed up.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

I've gone through multiple airports in three different countries using my range bag as my carry-on. It takes ammo to the range and spent brass back at least once a week and has for two years and it still didn't set anything off.

 

[MutinousDoug]

The only time I’ve been stopped was in Salt Lake City Intl where they swabbed my laptop and it came up positive. To be correct, it wasn’t MY laptop; it was a company machine I was borrowing for a (6-Sigma) class I was taking in Ogden. The laptop came from the production area where one or another of our automotive airbag inflators was being loaded with propellant. The laptop had been used to collect statistical data in the loading rooms for at least a year before I had it.
So, the TSA agent wanted to know if I had been around any propellants or been at a feedlot in the last few days. I explained that I routinely worked with propellants, produced my company ID and business card indicating I worked for Autoliv ASP probably one of the largest employers in the SLC area (Denver, where I came from was one of their satellite facilities). In any case this amazed the TSA agent who contacted her supervisor who asked me the exact same questions as before, to which I gave the same response. Said supervisor was equally amazed and passed me on to her supervisor and so on up about 3-4 more levels of competence and authority; all asking the exact same questions until they all gave up and sent me on my way. One of them along the way did ask me to turn on the laptop to see if it was real.
Before traveling again with that laptop, I wiped it down with a wet Handiwipe towel that came up stained quite yellow from the propellant dust that had accumulated over the period it spent in the loading rooms. It was subsequently swabbed going through Denver Intl and SLC Intl with no apparent reading.

 

[ny32182]

I wouldn't use a range bag as a carry on just because I wouldn't want there to be any possibility of a spent or live round being somewhere in the bag, etc, that they might see on the x-ray... but I've been through the airport on the same day I've been to the range more than once; been swabbed at least once; and nothing as far as I know. One time I was swabbed after going through one of those walk-through air checker things, so I thought maybe that machine had flagged something and they were swabbing for further analysis.

 

[jakemccoy]

Yeah, it sounds like security theater to me. They'll discover all the people who moisturize their hands by using gun powder, but those people will be too stupid to be a threat.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I'm confused by the original question in post #1 ("should we not...?"). If anything, this is a great reason to come to the 'port reeking of gunpowder, to TEST their test - see if it distinguishes, as it obviously should, between gunpowder and bombmaking material. If it does NOT so distinguish, then such action operates to show them the inaccurate, ineffectual stupidity of their test. Theater indeed (if the test would actually be set off by smokeless or black powder).

If course, since they are not allowed to 'profile', then if you just came from the range, and don't have time to mess with getting delayed, just wrap a turban around your head and put an "Allah is Great" medallion around your neck, and you'll skate right through - they won't be allowed to target you.

 

[taliv]

i fly on average twice/week. quite often i muck around with reloading or shooting immediately prior to one of those flights. never had anything come up positive. should be interesting in the future though

 

[Chemistry Guy]

I worked on a project with DOE to develop this type of sensor. The current generation of sensors use IMS technology, or ion mobility spectrometers. These sensors work like a cross between a gas chromatograph and a time of flight mass spectrometer, and are adjusted to accept as wide of a range of samples as possible. They are EXCELLENT for detecting pure and homemade explosives because they behave very predictably and ionize to the same species. However, commercial grade explosives such as C4, RDX, and PETN are mixed with enough binding agents and other chemical modifiers that they behave differently and are thus missed by the sensor. Smokeless powder is not a true explosive, and it will not trip the sensor because you would need a very large amount of it (large enough to be seen with the body scan) in order to destroy the plane. I could give you a list of other chemicals that will make the sensor go nuts, but that could probably get someone into trouble. Also, the IMS's can be tuned to be more or less stringent before setting off an alarm. When set to the maximum sensitivity, a large number of false positives will be indicated. I assume (as I am a scientist, not a security guy) that the sensors are only a small part in a layering of defenses, and are not tremendously useful by themselves. Sometimes I even suspect that the devices are just a pretext to give security personnel another look at a person of interest. If the operators had reason to believe that a certain individual had something they shouldn't, the IMS could be very useful in identifying what it is.

 

[rustycrusty]

TSA= Thousands Standing Around.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Cool more security theater!

 

[publiuss]

I hate 'em, 99% of them don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. I got em one time, I set off the buzzer for some unknown reason so they told me to get in the clear booth right next to the machine and take my jeans and button down shirt off. I took everything off and was standing there completely naked with a big smile on my face. i got my intended reaction, they got me on my way quick, w/o searching me further.

 

[smoking357]

What lovely discussions we free people have about the scrutiny our government heaps upon us.

 

[zxcvbob]

Smokeless powder is not a true explosive, and it will not trip the sensor because you would need a very large amount of it (large enough to be seen with the body scan) in order to destroy the plane.

Bullseye and Power Pistol gunpowders are about 40% nitroglycerin. Other double-base powders have less NG, but still significant. You know it's phlegmatized into a propellant rather than an explosive, but the chromatograph doesn't know that.

 

[bushmaster1313]

However, it seems to be an ineffective measure anyway, I won't fuss about it.

Profiling works. That's why it is railed against. If it didn't work who would care.

 

[Mandolin]

I've been delayed because I had a babaque sandwich in my carry-on. This is more TSA uselesnes.

 

[gbran]

Don't use your range bag as a carry-on travel bag for air travel.

 

[fragmag]

I should note that the backpack that I was cutting C4 on earlier in the day was swabbed and as far as I know nothing showed up.

I highly doubt it would not have picked up on the c-4 if you had been cutting it up on your bag the day before.

Unless the machine was broke

 

[SuperNaut]

I've gone straight from the range right onto a plane, the sniffers don't sniff for gunpowder.

 

[musick]

Should you not reload or visit the gun range shortly before boarding a plane?

Sounds like someone hasnt flown recently.

Never had a problem despite flying 4 or more international flights per year.

 

[rbernie]

I have been sniffed going thru airport security after visiting the range, via the plexiglas box with puffers and sensors. The alarms in fact sounded, and I sadly found myself subject to a relatively complete pat-down and scrutiny.

I was still allowed thru security once I passed the additional screening.