Shoulder Rigs... Convince me.

[Nordeste]

Quite a heated debate here.

I haven't ever used one, but I see their point, especially when you have to drive/be seated for an extended period of time. I have none, but I plan on getting one in the future for my future G19.

I agree that they expose the weapon more to a would-be grabber than an IWB/OWB holster, BUT... Whoever tries to reach my shoulder holstered pistol gets in close range. That means elbow, fists, knees (to groin) and forehead range. It's quite likely that I'll be shooting with those prior to reaching for my handgun. Besides, try to reach inside my jacket, and you're giving me a wrist and an elbow to grab on, twist, and break. It's not that easy to grab a pistol away from someone who is resolved to fight and keep it.

If there's more than one attacker, even them being unarmed, that means lethal force over here and I'd be drawing. You won't get close enough to grab my gun because I'll shoot you.

Of course there's always the chance that I get the first hit, or get hit by surprise, but then, it makes little difference where the gun is carried, it can be taken from you anyway.

 

[Sam1911]

You don't shoulder carry. I do. You don't practice draws with one. I do. You don't have any weapons retention training or practice time in on a shoulder rig. I do.

But that doesn't mean you have successfully answered the questions presented, or that the objections I raised (the REASONS I don't use shoulder holsters) are not valid.

They are.

Hey, I'm a hunter. I've studied elephant hunting, but I've never done it. If some guy tells me how he hunts--actually hunts--elephant, I listen. I don't tell him he's hunting them wrong.

But if you asked questions and pointed out problem and all he would say is, "Well, you don't know elephant hunting and I do, so your concerns aren't valid -- though I won't respond to them or explain why," you'd probably begin to doubt if he really had any good answers to the objections or concerns that you do know and understand.

I HAVE used shoulder holsters and I have spent a lot of time drawing and presenting weapons. I understand the mechanics. Your body doesn't work differently because you're wearing a shoulder rig. You don't grow a third arm, or become double-jointed when you strap one on. The problems I've pointed out are real.

If I was ignorant of and had never tried obstructed draws from a hip holster, and you said "there are simple moves..." and I couldn't picture them, I wouldn't tell you that such moves don't exist, or require too much movement to work.

So you would not. I admit, I am ignorant of ways to eliminate the problems I've elucidated. If you know of techniques that remove these very clear detriments please, PLEASE explain them. I hate having to ask so many times.

Again, my mistake. As I said regarding my old instructor, if I have someone who's interested in trying something that he hasn't tried before, great. If I have someone who's going to decide from his armchair, without ever picking up a shoulder rig to try out what I do (or try weapon retention with the shoulder rig at all), that it can't work, fine.

Please. PLEASE. If you've got something to share, SHARE IT. Stop suggesting and insinuating that you have special skills that seem to defy the dynamics of the human body when making a particular motion.

My call is whether to continue to answer in words the criticisms of someone who won't try what I've suggested (including finding an instructor who knows far more than I do about shoulder holsters); when the answer won't be in my words; it'll be in trying it.

Trying BLOODY WHAT?

HOW do you draw a gun from a shoulder holster if someone is grappling with you or has you pinned? HOW do you make your arms work to do so? There MUST be a way. Whether that way is easy, reasonably difficult, or even impossible under real-world conditions will be left to us all to figure out, I'm sure, but please just describe how you would do it. You are grabbed (knocked down, pushed against the wall, whatever) and there is someone or something against your front so your strong hand cannot cross your front. A violent attacker is attempting to obstruct your ability to put your gun into action. WHAT do you do?

"Answer[ing] in words" will be fine for now.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Loosedhorse, you don't have to put your finger in the triggerguard; just grasp the butt, and PULL. The front of the triggerguard pulls through the snap, with no contact on the trigger. Also, the reholstering does not contact the trigger, as the snap sections are not long enough to engage the trigger as the front of the triggerguard is re-positioned under the snap.

 

[ferretray]

Howdy all. I'm currently looking for a shoulder rig for a Colt Agent. I have a gig coming up which involves extended driving and have decided the shoulder holster would be the best choice for me in those circumstances.
My normal carry is a 5" 1911 in a Milt Sparks Versa Max II. Not easy to get to while seated in a vehicle with a seat belt strapped on.
The Agent is my only other option at this point. The 5" 1911 is just too big to shoulder carry, for me.
The type of shoulder carry rigs I'm looking at right now are the Ken Null straight drop SMZ type (Barrel points up into the armpit) or one of the quality horizontal rigs. Seems to me it would be somewhat difficult to acquire the grip with the straight drop style, but having no experience with this type rig I'm not ruling it out.
If any of you folks have experience with both the straight drop and horizontal type rigs I'd sure appreciate your feedback.
TIA, Ray

 

[Glock Doctor]

Howdy all. I'm currently looking for a shoulder rig for a Colt Agent. I have a gig coming up which involves extended driving and have decided the shoulder holster would be the best choice for me in those circumstances. .......

Hey! How did you get in here? I was right in the middle of reading a great internet gun forum brouhaha when, all of a sudden, you step in to ask a civil question!

Over the years I've struggled with this dilemma. Some of my final (working) answers? First, I primarily carry on my belt; sometimes, especially, when I'm sitting a lot, I use a secondary carry on my leg. Second, I never seat buckle my shirt or jacket flap over my holstered weapon. I always fasten the seat belt directly against my torso and UNDERNEATH my jacket or coat - Which, once I'm inside the vehicle, I leave open at the front.

Third, I'm ambidextrous; so it might seem like it doesn't really matter; however, as long as the driver's seat and steering wheel are on the left side of the vehicle, and I'm driving, my pistol is always primarily available to my right-hand.

What is the most useful form of pistol carry while driving? My experiences have taught me that it is from a crossdraw with the right-hand. Secondarily I have found ankle carry on my left leg to be useful, too. Driving a vehicle in the United States demands that you use your right-hand well.

As for using a shoulder holster? Nope! Only if you're riding a bicycle or motorcycle. Otherwise you're going to be too slow, and too encumbered. (But, hey, I don't want to interfere with anyone's fun!)



One other thing: I never rely upon small pistols for serious work. Do I carry a secondary? Sure! However, if I've got to use a pistol, then it's going to be the biggest, baddest, 'mother-loving' handgun I can get my mit around!

My usual EDC? Most of the time it's a Glock Model 21 with two magazines and 30 rounds! Sometimes, like when I'm feeling reckless, it's a Glock Model 19 with three magazines and 50 rounds!

 

[wlewisiii]

I got used to a shoulder holster in the military and have preferred one since. I use one from www.deepconceal.com over a t-shirt and under my main shirt for my Glock 19 and 2 spare mags. It suits my needs well.

 

[RetroMan]

Note to self, never ask for someone to "Convince me.", instead ask "What works for you and why?"