sig 220 failure to feed

[Blarelli]

A friend bought a sig 220 earlier last week and we finally shot it today. It is a stainless factory certified. About 80 rounds with around 20 failure to feeds. What happened each time was the round was half way into the chamber at a downward angle and the rim of the cartridge was jammed into the bottom corner of the extractor. The extractor itself looks pretty dinged up along the bottom edge. I will try to post some pictures of the extractor later.

Ammo used: Wolf 230 grain fmj, and blazer brass 230 grain fmj.
Any ideas on what's up with it?

 

[wally]

Could be problem with the extractor, but then the "factory certified" should have picked up on it. I'd try a new magazine or replacement Wolff magazine springs and if that's not the cure a call to SIG is in order.

 

[cslinger]

First try a different magazine. If that is the problem make sure the magazine in question is assembled properly.

Second make sure the gun is clean and wet. SIGs like to run wet.

Third the second gen P220 stainless had some extractor issues. Not sure they would crop up like you are describing though.

Chris

 

[Majic]

Try another magazine before anything else.

 

[Blarelli]

It came with two mags, but the second was one of the dimpled ones and was too dirty to use. I'm cleaning it right now, so I'll try it in a half hour or so.

 

[wally]

A new mag from SIG runs ~$40, Wolff replacement springs are ~$7 each. Unless SIG pays the freight for retuning the gun, UPS/FEDEX will gouge you to ship it back to the tune of ~$50, as they insist on "next day air".

One trick you can try, I don't know if their counter worker messed up, but last gun I returned, I did on a Friday afternoon after their next day delivery dead line, so they only charged me $13 for three day shipping. Maybe they can't charge overnight rates if they can't actually do an overnight delivery.

--wally.

 

[Blarelli]

OK, I just finished cleaning the mags and was feeding rounds by hand through the gun and for the most part they fed pretty good when I would sling-shot the slide, but jam pretty excessively when the slide was milked. Is it possible that the recoil spring is not strong enough?

 

[Blarelli]

Another thing of interest is that it is forcing the bullet further into the casing on several of the rounds.

 

[Dienekes]

Once upon a time I had a SIG armorer's ticket. For what that may be worth at this late date.

However, I would try different, quality ammo. Neither Wolf nor Blazer is a first choice. We ran a lot of Remington and Federal 185 JHP ammo through ours without a hitch. Mine did not like cast 200 gr. SWCs but otherwise ate everything else.

I would also try various SIG or at least Mec-Gar Mags. And eye the recoil spring with a little suspicion. If you can compare the length of the spring you have with a new one. Yours should be the same length. BTW, the tight end goes on the recoil guide rod.

 

[dispatch]

Buy a Ruger P90. They work.

 

[wally]

OK, I just finished cleaning the mags and was feeding rounds by hand through the gun and for the most part they fed pretty good when I would sling-shot the slide, but jam pretty excessively when the slide was milked. Is it possible that the recoil spring is not strong enough?

Many (most) guns will jam if you milk the slide when trying to chamber. Slingshot is the most realistic feed scenario.

Another thing of interest is that it is forcing the bullet further into the casing on several of the rounds.

Makes me suspect the mag springs and/or dirty mags. Hitting too low on the feed ramp because the mag spring is not getting the nose up all the way. Tells me the recoil spring is more than strong enough. Its actually better the gun jam instead of pushing in the bullet and feeding as with something like .40S&W you could get into a dangerous over pressure situation. With .45ACP you can usually get away with some bullet setback, but its not a recommended way for a gun to run.

That or the mags have been dropped and have damaged feed lips -- again the "factory certified" should have caught defective feed lips before offering the gun and mags for sale.


You may not find Wolf clean enough or accurate enough for your needs but after ~15000 rounds of it in a wide variety of .45ACP guns tells me if your gun won't feed it there is something wrong with the gun and/or magazine. Extraction issues would be a reason to shoot other ammo, but I've really only seen these in Wolf .223, 9mm and .40S&W, even then only in a minority of guns.

--wally.

 

[BryanP]

Order an ACT/Novak mag for it. That should eliminate the possibility of it being the magazines.

 

[1911Tuner]

I'm not a Sig armorer, but I'll go along with Dienekes and point straight to:

Ammo used: Wolf 230 grain fmj, and blazer brass 230 grain fmj.

Wolff case rims run quite a bit smaller than American rims in .45 ACP. I've miked a few as small as .365, though most run to .368-.370 inch...which is still smallish...but not too bad. It's entirely possible that the rims are riding up past the extractor and high on the breechface...causing the nose-down attitude. It could also explain the damage to the corner of the extractor...or...it may be due to the short, sharp angled extractor groove bangin' into your extractor when the round slams backward into the breechface under recoil.

There are so many reasons not to use junk ammo in a good pistol...

Try a box of Winchester or Federal.

 

[wally]

No issues with Wolf in either of my SIG P220s. I've the "new" SAO model and the old heal mag release DA/SA model and a variety of 7 and 8 round mags, some new, some W German police surplus along with the pair that came with each gun. Both guns were purchased new.

He also reported the problem with Blazer brass ammo as well. Be interesting to see what kind of support SIG gives on their refurbished guns.

--wally.

 

[Rinspeed]

Buy a Ruger P90. They work.

The P90 is a good gun but no where near the level of the the 220.

 

[Lonestar49]

Timing is key, lubrication

...

Make sure your Sig rails and guides are good and WET with oil, along with clean, interior, walls of your mags, and then IMHO, as mentioned above, use nothing but good ammo, like new Winchester wb or Federal..

Mine has 900 rounds, both FMJ and JHP out her without any failures, just 100%.

Also, the cheaper ammo makes for quick, dirty, powder residue build-up..


Ls

 

[1911Tuner]

No issues with Wolf in either of my SIG P220s.

But...His Sig ain't your Sig. They're like fingerprints and snowflakes. Ain't no two that are exactly alike.

 

[angus2003]

use clean factory mags

 

[Spenser]

I had a similar issue with a 220. For me, it was a bad magazine. The previous owner was not much for preventative maintenance.

I'd also concur with the assessment that you should use better ammunition. Wolf is horrible, I can say with confidence. The casings are bad for your extractor, and the stuff is just plain icky.

Plus, I had one of the casings split and blow up a nice H&K USP .45. (Double charge, possibly?) The gun and owner are fine, thank you, but both are leery of Wolf forever more.

One of the most accurate .45's I've ever messed with, however. I think it's a great gun.

 

[1911Tuner]

Feed-related problems are most often caused by the magazine...but ammo can also be a cause, especially if it's out of spec...which the Wolff .45 ACP cases are. Ammunition is the lowest common denominator. If the magazines are good, ammunition is next on the list. If good ammo doesn't give results...next on your list of suspects is the extractor. If all these things check out...you've likely got a problem that a good smith or the manufacturer will need to address.

 

[1911Tuner]

Sorry the picture isn't more clear...but you can see the diffeence in the Wolff case and the Winchester.

The geometry of the extractor groove is where the trouble is. It has a sharp angle, and is positioned much closer to the breechface...and the nose of the extractor. In many guns...due to tolearance stacking...this can allow the front of the groove to hit the extractor hard when the case is slammed backward in recoil. In these guns, extractors bust while-u-wait.

 

[mister2]

clarification

you did not mention whether your 220 is stainless or stamped steel slide. STs had an extractor spec issue, the bottom line of which was frequent jams. Can't tell you now exact details, but I agree with Tuner in that if mags and ammo aren't the culprit AND your 220 is a stainless, check the extractor.
Good Luck!

 

[Blarelli]

Well, he bought a new factory magazine and when cycling rounds via 'sling shotting' it seems to be jamming on the last round very consistently. All 3 mags are the 8 rounders, and the current ammunition is cci blazer brass.
As for the extractor, what do I look for when checking it?

 

[1911Tuner]

Note that "New" doesn't automatically guarantee that it's good. Blazer brass is generally pretty decent ammo, so we can eliminate that for the time being.
Extractor...Since the pistol is essentially a Browning tilt-barrel/controlled feed...chamber a round from the magazine at full speed, and remove the magazine...then slowly draw the slide back to extract it...but don't let it touch the ejector. The cartridge should sag slightly without falling through the magwell.