SIG help.

[GhostyDan]

Alright I've decided I want a sig. Right now I'm leaning toward the P220 Elite, but the P227 is slightly growing on me.
My question is what is everyone's thoughts on the aluminum frame P227, in terms of service life, durability, and overall differences vs. a steel frame(P220 Elite)? My biggest concerns are reliability and longevity. In my mind aluminum would seem to be weaker than steel, but I'm no pro on the subject.
Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated

 

[digsigs226]

This topic has been discussed at length in the past on this and other forums, here are a few relevant thread's:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-581979.html
http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/28113-p226-p229-frame-life-2.html

I believe the general consensus is that if you can afford the massive round counts needed to induce a fatigue crack in the frame, you shouldn't really be worried about getting your money's worth from the pistol.

I think a bigger issue is the durability of the anodizing, for which the most often referenced work is Scott Folk's article here.

Even this issue though, IMO, is a tad overblown. Many Sig owners, myself included, operate older Sigs with some of the more advanced anodizing wear as described in the article without problems. I think the bottom line is being cognizant of keeping the rails properly lubricated will go a long way towards extending the life of your pistol.

 

[sigarms228]

If an aluminum frame P series SIG is maintained well meaning recoil springs are changed every 3000-5000 rounds, the frame rails are kept well lubed, and the breach block pins are replaced every 5000 rounds on German carbon folded steel slides you will get a LONG LONG life from it. Todd Green of Pistol Forum used to work for SIG and has reported of SIG P series aluminum frame pistols still running after 100,000 rounds fired.

Keep in mind that while the frame is andodized aluminum alloy the locking insert is steel. My P series SIGs are all aluminum frame as I prefer the weight savings.

 

[JTQ]

I think those 100,000 round SIGs are typically 9MM guns. I've followed John Hearne's comments over there, he is probably the most respected P220 shooter on that forum, and I think he feels the P220 is more along the lines of half that life span. That's still a lot of shooting for the average Joe.

His biggest personal problem with his P220's has been broken disassembly levers. If I remember correctly, he's commented that he's launched his slide down range in a training class after his disassembly lever sheared off. He still chooses the P220 though.

 

[sigarms228]

I think those 100,000 round SIGs are typically 9MM guns. I've followed John Hearne's comments over there, he is probably the most respected P220 shooter on that forum, and I think he feels the P220 is more along the lines of half that life span. That's still a lot of shooting for the average Joe.

His biggest personal problem with his P220's has been broken disassembly levers. If I remember correctly, he's commented that he's launched his slide down range in a training class after his disassembly lever sheared off. He still chooses the P220 though.

Good info!

I know at one time SIG made a beefier take down lever for the P series and I believe it was standard on the Combat P220 and usually you see them on the X-5/6 series of pistols. They have a "bulls eye" on the opposite end of the take down lever. Not sure of the current status of that though and if one can order from SIG or other places that supply SIG parts.

Here is a picture of an X-5 with it.

http://gunspics.com/10093/sig-sauer-xfive-match-9mm

 

[sigarms228]

This just popped up today on another forum where a forum member spoke of personally maintaining dozens of SIG P228s that had "well north of 100K rounds". Interesting read an good testimony of durability of classic P series SIGs and what parts need maintaining based on his experience. Again this is 9MM but still IMO good info.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17567-Got-this-from-Gray-Guns-today/page2

 

[GhostyDan]

Thanks for the replies guys. Lots of good info here.
So I guess the steel frame would technically last longer, but I would never where out the aluminum frame.

 

[JTQ]

When I went to verify my information for the above post, the information I found was the steel frame guns had the higher propensity for snapping take down levers. In any case, I'd expect a 9mm SIG to significantly outlast a .45 SIG regardless of frame material, but yes, you'd have to do a lot of shooting to wear them out in either aluminum or steel frame.

 

[GhostyDan]

Another quick question. How many rounds could the P227 take?(an educated guess would work) I see a lot of info for the 9mm SIGs reaching 100000+ if maintained. Would you expect the same for the P227?

 

[JTQ]

I don't know, but I'd suspect the P227 life would be similar to the P220 life if both are in .45Auto.

 

[GhostyDan]

So around 50000?
Man this is a tough decision. I love the look of the P220 Elite, but I like the bigger grip of the p227.
A P227 elite stainless would be ideal.

 

[bannockburn]

GhostlyDan

Let's say everything else being equal in terms of frame longevity, I would say go with the one that feels the best in your hand. I felt very comfortable with the size of the P220 (actually a Browning BDA), grip; so did everyone else who tried it. Where I start to have a problem with a decent grip, due mainly with my smaller size hand, is with most double column magazines in .45 ACP. The grip frame is just too wide for me to get a comfortable and effective grip on it.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

A P227 elite stainless would be ideal.

That's what I'm waiting for. My LGS has a stainless elite 226, in 9mm. I'd love to have a pair.

 

[SwampWolf]

QUOTE: ...So around 50000?

How many "replacement" pistols do you suppose you could buy for the price of fifty thousand rounds? Or even twenty thousand rounds? Don't worry about the longevity of a SIG pistol. By all accounts it will doubtless outlast you, be it made of aluminum or steel.

 

[JTQ]

So around 50000?

Do you have other guns in your possession that have over 50,000 rounds through them? I know there are lots of guys on forums that shoot lots and lots of rounds, but the typical gun owner will never put 10,000 rounds through a single gun during their lifetime.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I know there are lots of guys on forums that shoot lots and lots of rounds, but the typical gun owner will never put 10,000 rounds through a single gun during their lifetime.

I'm curious where you got that number. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just wondering.

 

[JTQ]

460Kodiak wrote
I'm curious where you got that number. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just wondering.

Pure speculation.

Well, not completely. Years of reading about the subject in gun magazines, internet gun forums, gun blogs, talking to friends with guns, and personal experience. Sure there are competitors in the shooting sports and gun trainers that shoot that in a month, but the typical gun owner won't spend the time or money to shoot that many rounds, especially through one gun, since most gun owners don't shoot that much, and most have several firearms.

As a for instance, I'm on another forum with over 150,000 members, currently running a thread asking how many have a gun with over 10,000 rounds through it. So far, there are about 20-30 who have commented they have a gun with that number of rounds. I'm sure the number will increase as the weeks go on, but you're still not going to get a lot of those 150,000 members that have put 10,000 through one gun, and gun forum members are typically more "gun enthusiast" than the typical gun owner (pure speculation again).

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Pure speculation.

Well, not completely. Years of reading about the subject in gun magazines, internet gun forums, gun blogs, talking to friends with guns, and personal experience. Sure there are competitors in the shooting sports and gun trainers that shoot that in a month, but the typical gun owner won't spend the time or money to shoot that many rounds, especially through one gun, since most gun owners don't shoot that much, and most have several firearms.

As a for instance, I'm on another forum with over 150,000 members, currently running a thread asking how many have a gun with over 10,000 rounds through it. So far, there are about 20-30 who have commented they have a gun with that number of rounds. I'm sure the number will increase as the weeks go on, but you're still not going to get a lot of those 150,000 members that have put 10,000 through one gun, and gun forum members are typically more "gun enthusiast" than the typical gun owner (pure speculation again).

Interesting. That sounds like a good thread topic and a good sample group. Thanks for the follow up.

Back to the Sig question. The life of aluminum framed guns was a concern to me as well when I bought my Wilson/Beretta 92 Brig Tac. Then I realized that even if I used the gun up and shot it completely loose and to the point of needing to replace it, it would be a perfectly equitable situation given the number of rounds it would take to do that.

I suspect that in my lifetime, I will put north of 50,000 rounds through several of my guns. But by the time I am actually worried about wear on the gun, I will have new blasters on hand anyway that will mitigate recoil better for my old hands.