Sig P210

[BlkHawk73]

I'd seen pics of this model before and read a little about them here and there. Never have actually seen but one of them before with my own two eyes. At that time, the price kept it FAR out of any possibilty of owning.
I just pulled the '05 Sig catalog from the mailbox but 30 minutes ago and those P210's are awsome. A P210 is now way close to the top of my "gotta get" list. Want one more or less as just a range plinker. Be it a pricey plinker but hey, you get what you pay for right? Now, granted it's still a ways off but I can easily put away $200/month maybe a a bit more. So in a fairly reasonable amount of time, one could be mine.
I'd kinda like to hear from those with first-hand experience with these.

 

[critter]

My shooting buddy has just bought one and let me shoot it. it is a fine piece of machinery and shoots REALLY well! I would not call it a 'beautiful' piece, but to each his own in that department.

Three things. #1. Magazines are HIGH for the thing. #2. Please DO NOT get the European heel type mag release. It is atrocious-looks like the mainspring from an old clock and is hard to use. #3. I understand that holsters are hard to come by to fit the things. That may not be an issue with you.

 

[George Hill]

It's also not that comfortable in the hands...

The upside is that it is perhaps the most accurate automatic pistol ever made, very reliable, and rugged. It is a service pistol, adopted by the military and is still seen in the field. They are wonderful pistols. Worth every penny heel clip or not.

 

[Onmilo]

I have owned two 210 pistols.
They were the most accurate centerfire semi automatic handguns I have ever owned and the were hammer biters both of them, bad enough that I wore a shooting glove when I shot them.
The heel mag release is less of a hinderance than one might be inclined to think and you will never worry about losing a magazine even if you waistband carry the gun.
I wish to get one of mine back or find another.
I now have learned how to weld an extension on the frame tang to eliminate the hammer bite problem and look forward to giving it a try.
The magazines are expensive but the guns usually come with two and three more will meet your needs and three mags should cost way less than three hundred bucks unless the dealer is trying to hose you.
A Person only lives once and these pistols should be on your 'Must own at least once during my lifetime' list.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Keep it coming guys. the heel mag release doesn't bother me. Have that style on my HK P9S and have used them a lot on the Ruger MKII's. not a problem for me. I'm just hoping I can keep my mind set on one of these for as long as it takes for the $ to be there. Looking like maybe Dec/Jan til I've got enough. (well, unless a few bonuses at work happen w/o the wife knowing )

 

[Billy Sparks]

I did used to own one. Got rid of it during a time of fiscal instability. The problems I had with it was it was a hammer bitter and they thumb safety was VERY stiff. To tell you the truth if I could get one for the right price I would consider adding a tang, get some better sights (Trijicon) and use it for CCW.

BTW I didn't think any of the 210's had anything but heel releases for the magazines.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The new SIG P-210-8, has a standard button mag release. You can pick one up for around $8,000, I think.

Billy is a shooting buddy -- we're in the same IDPA club. He had a nice P-210 with a matching .22 top end -- serial numbered together, if I remember right.

Mine was made new in 1976, and I bought it new in 1996... It came with a proof target showing a five shot sub-1.75" group at 50 meters (roughly 55 yards.)

I never had trouble with hammer bite, but did have some difficulty with sharp edges on the sights (finally filed the edges a bit.) Tried it in IDPA and did alright, but wasn't willing to practice the mag handling needed. (That, plus it was an 8-round mag.)

Very nice guns. My 210-6 had a match-grade trigger, but even the standard triggers were pretty nice.

Sold it and a collectible Luger, and paid for most of a nice used pickup. Mags are expensive -- $70+ -- and don't even bother with any after-market mags.

 

[Michael Zeleny]

I have reviewed the SIG P210 on this forum.

As regards the heel latch, reliable and consistent magazine retention is by far the most significant parameter affecting semiauto pistol reliability. The P210 setup ensures it better than the vast majority of alternative designs. A brief look at the bearing surfaces suffices to show that the lateral release is inferior in this regard. I suppose that something along the lines of the Don Giovanni mentality might account for being more concerned with dropping a magazine at will than keeping it in place. My priorities differ.

An extended screw-in beavertail is available from Nill in a variety of finishes and attachment methods. If you are considering a permanent modification to eliminate the hammer bite, trim the hammer tang instead of messing with the frame. That's the way the Swiss do it. Simpson usually has some pistols so modified:

 

[Walt Sherrill]

As regards the heel latch, reliable and consistent magazine retention is by far the most significant parameter affecting semiauto pistol reliability. The P210 setup ensures it better than the vast majority of alternative designs. A brief look at the bearing surfaces suffices to show that the lateral release is inferior in this regard. I suppose that something along the lines of the Don Giovanni mentality might account for being more concerned with dropping a magazine at will than keeping it in place. My priorities differ.

Having shot the P-210-6 and a number of other gun in IDPA competition, I will note:

1) I don't think that mag retention is the most significant parameter affecting semiauto pistol reliability. Mag function, extraction, and a few other issues seem to cause far more problems on the firing line and in competition.

2) the heel latch is slower than the common alternative and speed does sometimes (not always) matter.

3) having shot thousands of rounds in competition (which is a poor-simulation of real-life situations, but a better proxy than simply punching holes in paper targets from a fixed position), I've yet to have a mag drop free when it wasn't wanted -- regardless of the gun.

keeping one's hands away from the mag release is little different than keeping one's thumb OFF the slide (if you shoot thumb high), or your finger out of the trigger guard, when it shouldn't be there.

4) In a life/death situation, I'd like more than 8-rounds in a mag... especially in a 9mm weapon. I've got a customized CZ-75B SA that is very accurate, and it holds 16 rounds; I also have a wonderful BHP that holds 17 rounds. I like that.

The P-210 is a wonderful gun. I never had a problem with hammer bite. The sights on mine, however, left a lot to be desired -- both optically and physically. I lost blood a number of times due to sharp edges on rear sight blade. (I eventually wised up and took the sharp edges off with a file, and polished and reblued the sight.) Just grabbing the slide in a malfunction drill could be costly.

I shot my P-210-6 better at 25+ yards than any gun I've owned -- when the lighting was right. But I guess I'm a contrarian, as I don't view it as an appropriate pistol task to do things at much greater distances than 25 yards. That some guns do it well is admirable, but why bother? Isn't that was rifles and carbines are for?

5) As you say, priorities differ.

I want a gun that is accurate, easy to handle, has the potential to go longer without reloading (should that ever be necesasry), can be quickly reloaded, and is reliable. For me, the P-210 didn't hit all the marks. It was wonderfully accurate and reliable. And the quality of worksmanship was like looking at a fine Swiss watch.

I sold my P-210-6 (along with a collectible Luger) and bought a nice used pickup. I guess I just wasn't marksman enough to realize the extra measure of accuracy it provided.

That said, were I to come into some money, I'd probably spring for one of the P-210-8s, if they're still being made... with the mag release button higher on the grip.

 

[Michael Zeleny]

The original M1911 two-tone magazine illustrates the problem with magazine retention by a side latch. The top of its body had to be hardened to resist wear by the retaining edge of the latch. Not much wear is required to set askew the loading path of the cartridge. The heel clip on the P210 solves this problem. As always, a compromise is involved.

The P210 is built to the Swiss military competition requirements, to place its shots inside a 50mm (a little under 2") circle at 50m (about 55 yards). The only other standard service sidearm capable of such accuracy is the P08 Parabellum (Luger), which is more sensitive to dirt and requires greater care in selecting ammunition. Many service pistols noted for their exceptional accuracy are delivered with similar rest targets shot at 25m. Even if most of your shooting takes place at shorter ranges, the P210 recommends itself with its tight, rugged, and durable construction, and a match quality two-stage trigger. The micrometer sight with which some of the P210-6 pistols are equipped is indeed cumbersome. I prefer the factory contrast sight set accompanied by a front sight pusher.

If you expect trouble, the most versatile device to pack is a semiautomatic battle rifle fed by a 20-round detachable magazine, equipped with an adjustable hooded front sight and a rear peep sight adjustable for range, and topped by a low magnification scope in a stable, quickly detachable mount. The SIG AMT is my favorite arm for this application. When circumstances call for lessened conspicuity, a long gun can be inconvenient. The P210 leaves its master with the option of approximating the accuracy of a long gun out of a readily concealable pistol.

 

[Michael Zeleny]

It's also not that comfortable in the hands...

True enough. But lack of comfort in a wraparound grip design of the P210 is the function of fit. In the past, Nill has accepted orders for custom fitting of any variation of their P210 grips at Camp Perry, accommodating the individual shooter. They may do so at other times and locations.

 

[Michael Zeleny]

The upside is that it is perhaps the most accurate automatic pistol ever made, very reliable, and rugged. It is a service pistol, adopted by the military and is still seen in the field. They are wonderful pistols. Worth every penny heel clip or not.

Ruggedness is the key term here. It is possible to sink thousands of dollars into a M1911, a GP35, or a CZ75 to achieve short term accuracy similar to that of a P210. With some luck, they might be as reliable. But all of them will shoot loose much sooner than the Neuhausen SIG. The Belgians and the Czechs never bothered to approach the Swiss either in the quality of their materials or the care in their construction, and as Jerry Lewis learned from Stanley Kubrick, there are hard limits to the human capacity to polish fecal matter. Even an M1911 machined out of similar quality of forgings or bar stock will suffer in comparison to the P210, owing to its self-sprung extractor and significantly abbreviated slide bearing surfaces. Based on their track record, the only other pistol I would expect to stand up against hundreds of thousands of rounds is the Mauser C96.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The P-210 is, indeed, rugged and accurate -- but it is built to a level of ruggedness and accuracy that is far greater than is practically needed.

The cost associated with acchieving that excess of actual over practical ruggedness/accuracy is why it is so seldom used and so infrequently purchased by individuals, policy or military units who would otherwise be expected to buy and use the most accurate and rugged weapons available.

Military Special Ops units get the weapons they need, as theirs is truly a life-and-death situation. I don't know of any using P-210s.

You're focused on a fine weapon -- but it is an economically impractical one for the vast majority of gun users in the world.

A similar situation exists among watch fanciers: the very best mechanical watches, marvels of human engineering and manufacture -- sell for $3000 to $20,000, but seldom keep time as well as a $30 Timex. But people buy them, for similar reasons you cite with the P-210. An appreciation for work well done, supreme functionality, etc. But, in the final analysis, they don't really buy these expensive mechanical marvels to be sure they get to their appointments on time.

These folks buy the fine timepieces because they are mechanical marvels with a certain amount of "snob" appeal among certain groups. I understand the appeal of these watches, and have a few of the lower-end "finer" watches, myself.

That said, the watch that is usually on my wrist is a quartz timepiece (albeit one with a "snob" brand name.) So it is with handguns like the P-210, and some of the finer custom 1911s.

For most of us, the handgun equivalent of the quartz watch is good enough.

 

[Michael Zeleny]

The P-210 is, indeed, rugged and accurate -- but it is built to a level of ruggedness and accuracy that is far greater than is practically needed.

Tell that to people spending similar amounts on futile attempts to approximate its performance with cast frame guns. This is well understood in Sweden, where the difficulty of procuring purchase permits for handguns causes shooters to appreciate weapons that last longer.

Military Special Ops units get the weapons they need, as theirs is truly a life-and-death situation. I don't know of any using P-210s.

As opposed to mere grunts who feign their life-and-death issues?

For most of us, the handgun equivalent of the quartz watch is good enough.

I am not addressing any kind of majority. Anyone expressing specific interest deserves to be addressed as an individual.

 

[Onmilo]

I don't know if Alpine Mountaineer Troops count as 'Special Operations' but a bunch of so qualified Swissmen are still packing 210s,,,,

For some reason quite a few Sig 210 autos show up in places like Chile too.

 

[car541]

I have a P-210, a very old one that I obtained used. I have carried it a tremendous amount, and shot is quite a bit.

I have 3 holsters that fit it: one Milt Sparks Watch 6 made for a P-210, a Sparks 55BN for a P210, and a safariland model 200 for a colt government model, which it fits very well. As far as looking for a good holster, a fine weapon like a P210 deserves its own custom made leather.

It is absolutely reliable and extremely accurate. It does however bite my hand when I shoot it.

Would I buy one again? yes.

 

[Tecolote]

When did you see the P210s in Chile? I thought their standard sidearm was a Beretta 92FS clone made by FAMAE.

If you expect trouble, the most versatile device to pack is a semiautomatic battle rifle fed by a 20-round detachable magazine, equipped with an adjustable hooded front sight and a rear peep sight adjustable for range, and topped by a low magnification scope in a stable, quickly detachable mount.

You related to Gecko45?

 

[Peter M. Eick]

They are fun, accurate and very enjoyable to shoot. I find that I like to shoot my -6 more then my -5 because cleaning the -5 is a pain. The accuracy is there, but the -5 has not really broken in well like the -6.

All in all worth every penny.