sig556 russian or arsenal?

[thefamcnaj]

So my plan going into this weekend was to get two rifles. I've been putting it off for a long time, and just decided this was the weekend to do it. I wanted something chambered in 5.56 and something in 7.62x39.
I had the ar platform narrowed down to the sig sauer m400 and the stag arms model 2. I went with the sig, and glad I did I got it dialed in and its a tack driver. I've been shooting the crap out of it since I picked it up.
In the 7.62 I just knew it was going to be either the sgl20 or sgl21 from arsenal. I've shot my friends sgl20 and its sweet. Plus on top of that, thr raves about the arsenal, from what I can read.
Today however I read about the sig556 Russian chambered in 7.62. Its a real interesting gun and I've never been dissappointed with a sig firearm personally. Its 400 dollars more than the arsenal. Best I can tell the sig is a milled reciever and the sgl20 is a stamped reciever. Arsenal specializes in this platform as where sig has a broad spectrum of firearms that they produce.
Does anyone have any experience with sig's "ak"? Would it be worth the extra 400 bux? Does the milled reciever even make a difference? The quality seems top notch on both brands.

 

[Girodin]

I was very excited for the release of the 556R. On paper it was the ultimate AK. However, the execution was a real let down. If you wanted something a step up I'd look at getting a Vepr and modifying it.

This video is demonstrative of the types of reviews the 556r has gotten.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrObcZb_CCI

 

[Rob G]

I'd recommend watching the video that Girodin posted a link to. There's also a companion video where he actually does a full review of the 556r and it just keeps malfunctioning.

My personal advice would be to buy the Arsenal over the sig any day of the week.

Does the milled reciever even make a difference?

Yes. It's heavier.

The original AK47s had milled recievers because the first batch of stamped recievers had all kinds of problems. In the 1950s when they went to the AKM they had the problem sorted out and have been using stamped recievers on AKs ever since. You'll hear people claim that milled recievers are more accurate, more reliable, etc. but in truth they are none of those things. They are however heavier and some people just really like the idea of having one.

 

[Averageman]

Today however I read about the sig556 Russian chambered in 7.62. Its a real interesting gun and I've never been dissappointed with a sig firearm personally. Its 400 dollars more than the arsenal. Best I can tell the sig is a milled reciever and the sgl20 is a stamped reciever. Arsenal specializes in this platform as where sig has a broad spectrum of firearms that they produce.
Does anyone have any experience with sig's "ak"? Would it be worth the extra 400 bux? Does the milled reciever even make a difference? The quality seems top notch on both brands.
I've owned both the Sig556 and Sig556R both were substandard rifles. As much as I wanted them to work, they didn't.
Please take a minute and search here.

 

[wally]

I've the SIG 556R and I've had none of the problems shown in the video. The only issue has been some light strikes with the last of my Golden Tiger ammo, Wolf and Brown Bear has so far always fired.

My main complaint on the 556 both in 5.56 and 7.62. is the handguards wobble, although this is easily fixed with a dollop of epoxy putty, its not the quality workmanship I'd expect form SIG or on any rifle in this price range.

Another option might be this:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=558

A 7.62.39 AR that takes AK mags. I haven't actually seen one yet.

 

[thefamcnaj]

Thanks for the link Wally. That looks really promising, I just have no expience with any rock river product but that may be the way to go.
For what I want it looks like I'm down to the:Arsenal, Sig556r, and the rock river. All three are along the same lines as what I'm after. I like the black rifles with the black poly furniture. I don't want an ak with the wood and I'm not interested in doing any type of siega coversion. What ever I get I want it ready to go out of the box looking "tacticool"
From my reading the sgl21 gets a little more tlc from the factory, better fit and finish. I've read that the sgl20's finish has had problems in the past with bubbling up if its ran hard. In the same thread I read that the only thing you get with the 120 extra bux on the sgl21 is the accesory lug. The Arsenal is the cheapest way to go by far, and they have a good reputation.
I really like the sig556r but the video link above is real disturbing. If the gun can't run on steel cased ammo, it would be pointless to purchace. I'm real happy with sig rifle I have but it did have good reviews, as where the 556r does not.
I must say deciding on an ar platform was much easier, and I feel like a made a good decision, I just want to make sure I make another good decision on which ever ak varient I choose.

 

[RX-178]

Tacticool 7.62x39 is your only criteria?

Maybe look into an M10-762. New breed of Romanian imports, and it's tacticooled up out of the box, at a much lower price point than any of the others mentioned.

 

[thefamcnaj]

No its not my only criteria, I'm just not interested buying one thing and converting it to something else. I figured if I know what I want, why not get it out of the box the way I want it. I just see that I'm limited some what in the AK market, considering what I want out of the box. I'll be sure and check those out, thank you for the lead.

 

[Tommygunn]

I really like the sig556r but the video link above is real disturbing. If the gun can't run on steel cased ammo, it would be pointless to purchace. I'm real happy with sig rifle I have but it did have good reviews, as where the 556r does not.

When the 556R came out it was stated (by Sig -- I myself called and asked) that it would not be OK to run steel rounds through it. Later, it turned out this was NOT TRUE; it can handle steel. The matter involved a miscommunication between Sig's R&D section and their customer service reps.
Also, there is a sort of "MKII" version out now which features certain corrections to make the magazine catch shelf in the rifle more resistant and I think the ejection port has been enlarged. A few of the problems have been worked out; if you get one of the newer ones it will likely be OK, but early ones were generally OK.
My "ding" against this rifle, atleast the early ones, is the lack of front iron sights. It came only with the Sig red dot. That's an OK but not overpoweringly great sight. Whatever else I stick on my longarms I LIKE them to have iron sights. I'm just that way about these things I guess.
I don't know if they have done anything different about the sights on the new version of the 556R.

 

[briansmithwins]

The Sig had potential, but like most of their rifle line, it was let down by sloppy execution.

The Arsenal AKs are generally very well done and are a great rifle if you just want to buy one and not have to 'fix' anything.

They aren't perfect. The paint is military standard and certain solvents will eat it like candy. CLP and Ballistol are fine with the paint.

BSW

 

[thefamcnaj]

I keep reading how the Sig rifle line is a let down in a lot of ways on here and other places. I hope as I get more time behind mine, that I don't become dissappointed. I'm pleased so far but only time will tell. It's a big investment to make a mistake on.

 

[Tommygunn]

Keep in mind one thing; on the internetz, people who are disappointed the most whine the loudest. People who are happy with their guns are too busy shooting them to post, or just basically are happy about their life and keep to themselves.
Also it's your gun. Only YOU judge it. If you like it then be happy; if some other clowns try to tell you it's junk just smile nicely and know better.

 

[JustinJ]

Keep in mind one thing; on the internetz, people who are disappointed the most whine the loudest.

I would consider reporting on negative experiences as being helpful to others considering a large purchase as opposed to "whining". Funny thing given the number of positive experiences posted of many guns such as Arsenals, DD, etc seem to greatly outweight what you refer to as "whining". If you only want to hear positive things about your purchases stick to the makers website but the rest of us "clowns" will continue trying to make and help others make informed decisions.

 

[Averageman]

I wished it was disappointment.
When the barrel to reciever fit is so cocked you can't zero the weapon, you have issues that go in to safety.
After waiting months I was given the 556R as a replacement. The whole drama about steel cased ammo started and I began to see my reciever being ground away by Russian steel magazines..oops ah yes another warning about steel mags.
I wont buy Sig again, not because of disappointment, but because of two crappy rifles that cost over 1K a peice.

 

[Tommygunn]

The whole drama about steel cased ammo started and I began to see my reciever being ground away by Russian steel magazines..oops ah yes another warning about steel mags.

I guess it would be pointless to mention that the newer 556R have a steel plate attached to the aluminum bar that the mag catch rests on so as to prevent it from being "ground away."
IIRC Sg offers to modify older 556Rs with that metal shelf.
I hope this was "helpful" rather than "whining."

 

[rcmodel]

The original AK47s had milled recievers.

They also had curved magazines that matched the very tapered case of the 7.62x39 round for flawless feeding.


Wonder if the SIG does?

rc

 

[Tommygunn]

It uses AK 47 magazines......

 

[briansmithwins]

The original AK47s had milled recievers.

Technically speaking, the first Type 1 AKs had stamped receivers with riveted in trunnions. Production problems made the Sov switch to milled.

The AKM introduced the stamped receiver type that was continued with the AK-74.

BSW

 

[Quick Shot xMLx]

I'd recommend a Czechpoint VZ.58(it's what I have lol). Has a milled receiver and it's still lighter than an AK.

If not I would just get the Arsenal. You can't go wrong with the Arsenal, it's a quality piece that you'll likely never have to worry about.