Sigs

[scotty45]

Is there room for one more member of the club?

To be honest - I am in between Sigs at the moment. Does that exclude me? I can bring some cred by stating that I won an accuracy match at a local Sig Forum shoot a few years back. Not even with my own Sig, but a borrowed 239 (.40). I won a Sig cap and all - will post pics soon.

I cry daily over the loss of my P220 .45 that I bought in 1993 or 1994 (was this a German model?) due to financial reasons and a wife who was uncomfortable with the idea of a firearm in the house. However, she has become disabled and assaulted and frankly, is now ALL FOR the idea of carrying concealed. She doesn't feel she can defend herself now in a weakened state. Anyway, I have the green light to make another purchase and apply for a CCW (I am in Utah, so it should be fairly painless).

In my absence of Sig ownership, I have apparently missed some quality control issues or something. There were no haters back then, and I thought all firearms were being imported. I think I was mistaken, though. Finding this forum has been fun, because I see a few problems but overall it seems the quality is still there. I am very accurate with Glocks and HKs, and I appreciate their quality. That said, my money will likely never go to owning one. I am a Sig man, through and through.

I will share my first experience with a Sig firearm, obviously where I fell in love. There was a fine shop here in SLC called ProArms (“The Cop Shop”) that had a decent, well-lit, clean range, and was the first place I noticed you could rent firearms to shoot. Anyway, I only owned a Beretta 92FS, and was interested in greener pastures. Plus, reading magazine reviews made me interested in certain handguns as well. I shot a couple of Glocks (Glock 21 seemed like it was hit near the center of the target even if I closed my eyes, but the Glock 19 gave me blisters). I fired a Ruger .45 Long Colt, just for kicks. It was nice, but maybe down the line. Well, then there was a P220 that was eyeing me. I rented it and bought a box of shells. Then, I ran out to the counter and bought another box of shells. 100 rounds of bliss! This thing was more accurate than I could hope for, it was comfortable, and it was built so well and so solid. I knew it was my next purchase. Anyway, about $617.00 later (great prices back then), I was the proud owner of my own P220. I bought the Hogue rubber wraparound grips for it. It was fantastic. Anyway, I miss it.

I have fired Sigs models P220, P210, P239 (.40). The 239 doesn’t fit me as well, so in my quest for a new Sig, I need to avoid that size of frame. I want to be able to carry it easily. I need to go take a look at the 220 Carry and SAS models. I am intrigued by the DAK trigger as well, so I will have to check that out. I think a P229 would be great, but I am not LE, so I would be stuck with 10 +1 rounds, and that feels kinda funny to me. Like the gun is neutered a bit. Anyway, I love the .45 ACP and would be happy to pick up a clean used P220 that is identical in lineage to the early 90’s model I had. I have mixed feelings about the rails if I am not going to be throwing a light on there.

So, there is a bit of rambling that you may have stopped reading by now. But in there is my common ground with you fine folks – the love of these fine firearms.

Nice to meet all of you...

Scott
(scotty45)

 

[1BLINDREF]

Hello Scott

Glad to have you here. Welcome to THR as well.
Sorry to hear about your wifes problems, I hope all goes well

It seems that quality issues having been popping up more and more lately. I guess that I've been lucky. I have had only one small issue with a new Sig and Sig CS took very good care of me.
I think that alot of what you hear on the Forums is the few people that have had issues making alot of noise about them.
Every gun Mfg. has guns that are lemons. I judge Companys and Mfg's by how they handle those lemons. I'm sure there are people out there that have had bad experiences with Sig, just like those that have had the same with Glock, Hk, S&W, etc.

Having said that, I do prefer the older W.German stamped slide Sigs over the milled slide Sigs simply because I think that they balance better in my hands, not because of quality issues.

All I can say is that for me, give me a Sig over those "others" any day. My CCWs are Sigs and I shoot IDPA with a Sig, but thats just me.
Everybody has different opinions what is the "best" gun - Sounds like you already know

I have a P220 Carry SAS. I think that it is right there when it comes to fit and feel like the old W.German P220's.
Do yourself a favor and try one out before you buy something. From reading different posts, most people either love the DAK trigger or hate it.
I loved it from the first time that I tried it.
My two main carry weapons are DAKs (P229 .40S&W and a P239 SAS 9mm). To me, the trigger feels like a good S&W wheel gun trigger. It's nice and smooth and consistant. It doesn't stack up right before it breaks.
Most of the complaints that I've read are that it has too long of a pull, but I like that in a CCW.

The older W.German P220s like the one you had are going for about $400-$500 in my area depending on condition. I've seen alot more of them for sale lately. I think it might be due to the high price of .45acp
I've got four P220s that I not selling no matter how much .45 goes up

Good luck, and keep us posted as to what you end up buying.

 

[Rexster]

Welcome, scotty45! Does Utah limit magazines to 10 rounds? The AWB expired; people in free states can buy norm-caps again.

 

[scotty45]

NO WAY!!! Really? I need to check, because I would go back to 9mm if I can get a 13-15 round mag...

Does anyone else know the law for Utah or where I can check this to confirm?

 

[MarcusWendt]

Scotty,

This link will hit the high notes of Utah gun laws. Looks like High Caps, or in reality, standard capacity magazines are a go in Utah.

If you plan on CCW, I'd say P229 based on your needs. I would have said P239, but it doesn't fit you.

Now, if you can find a P228 9mm (13+1) that's your baby right there if you do decide to go 9MM

Welcome to THR.

 

[DPris]

No limitation on mag capacity in Utah.
No limitations on what you can carry on the permit, once you get it you can carry any type or number of firearms that are otherwise legal.
Firearm/s are not listed on the permit.
The state couldn't care less how many rounds or how many guns you carry once you've gone through the process.
Denis

 

[scotty45]

Thanks for the input, folks. I decided to head down to the local shop during lunch and just see if there were any used P226, P228, or P229 models and what they were selling for. I favor the .45 but may lean toward a 9mm again for cheaper practice and proven carry models. Okay, the P226 is not going to be any easier than a full-size P220, either, but I am addicted. They are so sweet. I just want one of each. Then, maybe two of each…

Anyway, I was ecstatic to see that there were P228s, first of all, since new is not an option anymore. There were three used ones. Two really beat up ones for about $549, and then one really, nice one for $579. It was totally clean and looked like it was kin to my early 90’s West German P220. I think the serial started with “B 117….”, if that means anything to anyone. I am not sure about a .40, but I guess the P229 was nearly identical in size, and I have always loved those. It had a beefier and heavier slide, of course, but no worries. I think I like the earlier German style without the rails, but I would be happy with either. The 229 was in 9mm but was new. I think it was $769. They had an older P226 with the checkered plastic grips that my P220 came with. Definitely used, but it was in okay condition. I know any would please me, but have no idea how it will go. It will likely be a few months since I am moving next month and can’t afford to spend on something like this. I can, however, go get the class out of the way and apply for the CCW, since it takes 90 days.

Then, I need to talk the wife into a slightly higher price range. The $250-300 she is thinking is not cool. I would just want to sell it and buy a Sig down the road, so why not wait a bit longer and get the right one first? Plus, high capacity 9mm or .40 mags are back and I never knew it, being out of the gun fan loop. I need to take advantage of that while I can. Maybe a P228 or P229 for Summer and then a full size P220 for Winter carry, is what I am thinking.

 

[scotty45]

Speaking of the P229, does anyone have a reason to choose one over the P228 if they want to shoot 9mm? I mean, from my understanding, the P229 was built beefier to handle the .40, but then then made it in 9mm as well. Is one more reliable or accurate than the other?

I know they are Sigs and it is dumb to question reliability or accuracy. But you know, there is a slight chance some could have such opinions...

Thanks all,

Scott

 

[1BLINDREF]

Scotty-
The P228 and the P229 are identical in size. They both use the same holsters (as long as the P229 doesn't have a rail). The P229s' slide is made from a solid block of steel. The P228 is made from stamped folded steel.
IMHO, the P228s balance is slightly better, but you probably won't feel the difference unless you handled them both at the same time.
Neither has an edge on reliability or accuracy - both are outstanding.

The early stamped slide Sigs use letters to determine the build date.
They are found on the front underneath part of the slide, just in front of the dust cover of the frame.
A=0 , B=1 , C=2 , D=3 , E=4 , F=5 , G=6 , H=7 , J=8 , K=9
(Sig didn't used the letter "I" because it looks too much like the number "1")
So if the two letters stamped there were "KB", the gun would have been made in 1991.

P228's are tougher to find than the P229s, but most of the used P229s are in .40S&W. They are a popular Police gun and there are many LEO trade-ins floating around.

Used P228's are generally going for the price range that you have seen. There are some new in the box P228's floating around in the $700-$800 range.
I wouldn't hesitate in buying a used P228 or P229, as long as they are beat to hell. Many of the Police trade-ins have been shot very little but are beat up on the outside.

The regular finish on the early Sigs was not that good at standing up to holster wear and general carrying. When you check out a used Sig, make sure you take the slide off and look at the rails where the slide travels on the frame. Make sure there aren't any cracks on the frame in the grove, especially near the front. Also check the locking insert to make sure its not all beat to hell. It's normal for the finish to be worn off where the slide travels.

As far as which Sig to buy first, in your situation I'd go for a 9mm - either a P228 or P229.

It's a good first gun because of the size and caliber. It's easier to conceal than a P226 or P220 because of its size, and 9mm ammo is alot cheaper than .45acp which means you'll get more practice shooting it. It's also big enough to be a good range gun.

9mm will also be easier for your wife to handle and if you can get her to like shooting it, you'll have an easier time talking her into that P220 for you

I think its a good idea waiting to save up a bit extra $$ to buy a Sig (or any better quality gun).
You get what you pay for!

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[scotty45]

9mm will also be easier for your wife to handle and if you can get her to like shooting it, you'll have an easier time talking her into that P220 for you

Correctamundo. My wife handled a few small pocket pistols and couldn't pull the slide back. I had her try a mid- and full-size Glock and Sig, and she COULD pull those slides. Then she saw the 1911 section and that fit her best. But she hasn't shot any and I think the Sig would work best for her - definitely 9mm to start, but I would be proud to see her with a .45!

On another note, it looks like there were all sorts of bills in the senate or congress this morning that the news was talking about, with more CCW restrictions. Dangit. I need to jump on this, especially if I want a 228 or 229, since I would be bummed to have the neutered 10 round mag.

Thanks for the input and advice!

 

[MarcusWendt]

They are so sweet. I just want one of each. Then, maybe two of each…

That's pretty much the way it works with Sig Sauer

 

[MarcusWendt]

Speaking of the P229, does anyone have a reason to choose one over the P228 if they want to shoot 9mm? I mean, from my understanding, the P229 was built beefier to handle the .40, but then then made it in 9mm as well. Is one more reliable or accurate than the other?

I'll second 1BR's comment. I feel the balance of the P228 is better. In fact, IMHO the P228 is once of the best balanced and feeling handguns ever made.

I shoot almost all .40 S&W, but I do own one 9MM. A Sig Sauer P228

Today, If I were going to buy a Sig 9mm it would be a P228 no question

 

[ZeSpectre]

I think that has a lot to do with personal preference. The first time I put a 229 in my hand I knew it was the gun for me. I have one in .40 and one in 9mm and like them both a lot.

 

[Lonestar49]

One size does not fit all.. lol

Quote: think that has a lot to do with personal preference. The first time I put a 229 in my hand I knew it was the gun for me. I have one in .40 and one in 9mm and like them both a lot.
__________________
...

ZS and I are on the same page.. with P229's in both 9mm and 40cal..

But, there is a fine line for each hand, grip-feel, point to aim balance, ccw requirements, and cost..

Which ever Sig you choose first, in will fall in line with many others that you will get up the road.. They prove themselves over and over, and it shows with all of us, in the contiunuous big-grins of satisfaction, and happiness, in making the right choice, over and over.. Sigs

Enjoy,


Ls

 

[hrgrisso]

CCW Sig

Hey Scottie,

Another thought was that you might want to look for a Sig P225/P6. It's the same size slide as the 229/8 but it's a single stack frame. You can get them used for very cheap. It's 9mm and you should be able to buy one for 320 online + your FFL xfer. The only other issue you need to watch for is not all the P6's feed HP's right away. I had a smith clean up the fit a little and I haven't had any trouble since.

JUST FYI you can find 228's used DAO for about 400 bucks if you look. Not hard at all.

Good luck in your search though, shopping is half the fun!

 

[Splurch]

Pics of my P226

Here are the pics after taking it out for my first shoot. I havent shot a pistol in over 20 years and then it was only .22's when I was a kid. Here is my 1st target shot at 21 ft with my 1st 30 shots (4 to head and 26 to center). I just want to say again "I love my SIG"!!!


(sorry pics will not attach??)

 

[Lightsped]

Here are my three SIGs. I go for the non-railed, all business looking SIGs. The newer blingy models don't do much for me.... From left to right are a nearly new West German P226 in 9mm, a NIB West German P228 in 9mm, and a P229 in .40.

 

[scotty45]

Another thought was that you might want to look for a Sig P225/P6. It's the same size slide as the 229/8 but it's a single stack frame.

I think I saw a P6 and a P225 as well. I should have held them, but my hands didn't fit the P239 so well. I won a competition for accuracy (at ~25 feet or so) with a borrowed one, but I was holding it weird to compensate for the bad fit. I fear this single stack would not be as good a fit. But, it wouldn't be a bad started and the wife may like it...

JUST FYI you can find 228's used DAO for about 400 bucks if you look. Not hard at all.

This is a fantastic idea. I would need to keep looking. Right now I am thinking P228 would be my first pick, but a P229 would not make me sad.

 

[scotty45]

size matters?

Model		Width		Length		Height		Weight		Barrel
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
P220		1.40"		7.80"		5.50"		31.2		4.4"
P226		1.50"		7.70"		5.50"		34		4.4"
P229		1.50"		7.10"		5.40"		32.4		3.9"
P228		1.50"		7.10"		5.40"		26.4		3.9"

You know, as I look at the size differences, the P220 and P226 that I love and would rather have if I were limited to just one (yes, catastrophic, but better than the none that I have currently) - I see that they are so close in size. Longer slide length is the main issue.

Here would be my carry scenario: I am 6'3" and about 170 lbs. I would go with IWB carry, in casual (untucked shirt and jeans) wear. I am sure that every little bit counts, but when it is the .6" or .7" in slide length? Does anyone mirror my build and attire that had had difficulty here?

 

[scotty45]

size matters?

(sorry - can't delete accidental double posts due to technical issues)

 

[zeroskillz]

Here's a pic of the limited edition Dark Earth frame P250:



Just got a batch of them in.

Enjoy!
Ted
TNG Hardware
[email protected]

 

[1BLINDREF]

Ted - please don't do that, you're killin me
I like the looks of that dark earth. What are they going for shipped??

Lightsped -
That is a great threesome. I too like the "old school" Sigs better than to new models.
I do for some reason like that P250 zeroskillz has for sale.

The only problem is that it looks like no other gun that I have. That might raise some suspicious looks from my wife

 

[Lonestar49]

Here ya go 1BR.. lol

...

The Pic looks like a beautiful, small, perfect, key-chain, holder.. (beautiful pic btw)

Just tell the wife that's what you thought you were buying.. lol


Ls

 

[AK103K]

The only problem is that it looks like no other gun that I have. That might raise some suspicious looks from my wife

Jeez! You must be gettin' old! What happened to your "improvise, adapt, overcome" mentality?

An old P6, a can of Aluma Hyde II in "Coyote", and your on your way! Just make sure you point out to her how nice that ratty old el cheapo P6 came out with a cheap coat of paint and, not to mention, (she knows how modest you are ) what a nice job you did. You might just have to do a couple more.

 

[1BLINDREF]

Quote:
The only problem is that it looks like no other gun that I have. That might raise some suspicious looks from my wife

Jeez! You must be gettin' old! What happened to your "improvise, adapt, overcome" mentality?

An old P6, a can of Aluma Hyde II in "Coyote", and your on your way! Just make sure you point out to her how nice that ratty old el cheapo P6 came out with a cheap coat of paint and, not to mention, (she knows how modest you are ) what a nice job you did. You might just have to do a couple more.

LMAO - Thats great!
I love this place - there is so much to learn here