Similar to Kahr but higher capacity?

[bannockburn]

Tobinator

You might want to consider getting a .22 semi-auto to help your shooting technique in overcoming any flinch and other problems you may be having. Work on developing a good grip that works for you, a proper sight picture, and a good, consistent trigger pull. Then I maybe move up to a full size 9mm. which can help to lessen initial felt recoil and muzzle flip. My two favorite smaller 9mm.s for CCW are the compact Ruger SR9c and the sub-compact Kahr CM9. Both fit my smaller size hand extremely well and are very instinctive to shoot.

 

[NormH3]

I have a Sig P239. Standard it's 8 + 1 but 10 round mags are available. It's SA/DA and has a decocker that allows you to carry with one in the pipe safely. The only caveat is that it's a bit hefty as it is all metal. Of course the greater heft controls the recoil a bit better. I put Hogue rubber grips on my for comfort.

 

[herrwalther]

I'll check out the SCCY, I hadn't heard of that one yet. Part of me thinks it would be ideal to find a range gun chambered in 380 with 10+ rounds capacity, and just have my carry gun be 9mm (why beat up my hands more than I have to?), although then again, the ammo would cost more.

I am going to recommend against the SCCY. And certainly try it before you buy it if possible. My wife owned a SCCY CPX-1 (with safety version). She liked the grip and how it dry fired. All that ended when she brought it to the range. The recoil hurt the web of her hand and down by her pinky. She is also recoil sensitive due to arthritis in her hands and it was difficult for her to control. Less than 20 rounds fired she already decided to have me sell it.

I make no distinction between carry and range guns. If it is a handgun, and I can't carry it, it is useless to me. Handguns are self defense tools. And your carry gun should get more ammo through it than any fun range gun you might have.

 

[Plan2Live]

Tobinator - Let me come at this from a slightly different perspective.

#1, Why have you set your minimum acceptable round count at 10? Not being controversial but if 10 is the lower limit, why not 11? Or 12? So why 10?

#2, Regardless of capacity, if you carry a semi-auto you must carry a spare magazine because a magazine is the component most likely to fail in a gunfight.

#3, Choosing any pistol requires some form of compromise. Caliber vs capacity, comfort vs capability, shootable vs concealable and on and on. If I were going to compromise, the last thing I would compromise on is a gun that fits my hand and I shoot well just for the sake of capacity. Your criteria may vary.

I've taken combat pistol classes with a pistol that holds 8 rounds in the magazine. I have no problem keeping up with the rest of the class and get to practice mag changes more often than the others do. That's a win for me in my book.

Just a few thoughts. Oh, and congratulations on joining The High Road.

 

[FireInCairo]

I've owned a couple Kahrs over the years. Some have awesome triggers, others not so much since they increased the weight on them a couple years back.

But... If you like the Kahr because it's smaller, you may want to check into a Beretta Nano 9mm. It's a great shooter for smaller hands. This lady loves hers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lvCiqCgOe0

 

[Tobinator]

EAA Tanfoglio Whitness Pavona is a 14+1 pistol designed specifically for women and is a fine shooter with a thin grip and is a very soft shooting 380.



It has an excellent trigger and an easy to rack slide.

Interesting—I will check that out. I see good reviews for their 9mm too.




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[Tobinator]

What about a 9mm 1911? They have extremely low recoil since it's a large all steel gun and a very nice trigger to go with it. Overall, a joy to shoot. You can even put thinner grips on them if you need it. Something like the Springfield range officer in 9mm would be nice, but there are many other people that make them.

I'll check that out - my shooting instructor suggested that too. I'm unfamiliar with that type but I'll bet I can rent some...


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[Tobinator]

Tobinator

You might want to consider getting a .22 semi-auto to help your shooting technique in overcoming any flinch and other problems you may be having. Work on developing a good grip that works for you, a proper sight picture, and a good, consistent trigger pull. Then I maybe move up to a full size 9mm. which can help to lessen initial felt recoil and muzzle flip. My two favorite smaller 9mm.s for CCW are the compact Ruger SR9c and the sub-compact Kahr CM9. Both fit my smaller size hand extremely well and are very instinctive to shoot.

That makes sense! I'm leaning toward a .380 for my first gun and then a full-size 9mm when I'm ready and find the right one. I figure that way I'll have something to shoot now that I can repurpose as a small carry gun (if maybe a slightly underpowered one) later.


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[Tobinator]

Tobinator - Let me come at this from a slightly different perspective.



#1, Why have you set your minimum acceptable round count at 10? Not being controversial but if 10 is the lower limit, why not 11? Or 12? So why 10?

I know it's kind of arbitrary. I just found out most of the other women I'd be shooting with are carrying full size guns with a 15-17 rd capacity. I get the impression I'd be reloading a lot in the middle of drills if I'm bringing a small gun...

#3, Choosing any pistol requires some form of compromise. Caliber vs capacity, comfort vs capability, shootable vs concealable and on and on. If I were going to compromise, the last thing I would compromise on is a gun that fits my hand and I shoot well just for the sake of capacity. Your criteria may vary.



I've taken combat pistol classes with a pistol that holds 8 rounds in the magazine. I have no problem keeping up with the rest of the class and get to practice mag changes more often than the others do. That's a win for me in my book.



Just a few thoughts. Oh, and congratulations on joining The High Road.

I picked the forum whose threads I found the most helpful so far when researching guns, and I'm glad I did. The responses here have been extraordinarily helpful!

Good to know about being able to keep up despite frequent mag changes. I think I'm going to be starting out with a 7-round gun and getting something bigger later. I'll post details in a separate update.




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[Tobinator]

I have a Sig P239. Standard it's 8 + 1 but 10 round mags are available. It's SA/DA and has a decocker that allows you to carry with one in the pipe safely. The only caveat is that it's a bit hefty as it is all metal. Of course the greater heft controls the recoil a bit better. I put Hogue rubber grips on my for comfort.

Adding that to my list to check out, thanks! Heft is a good thing. I think a metal gun would be a good choice for me.

 

[Tobinator]

So an update. I went shooting today. My first solo range trip (felt weird) and I rented three guns:

• Kahr CW9. I was so hoping I'd like it as much as the K9, but it had a lot more kick. Out of the three guns I shot today, though, I shot this one the best.
• Walther CCP, on the recommendation of the ladies behind the counter. Thought it was OK but wasn't enamored of it.
• S&W SD9VE, which I also shot on Saturday at another range. I don't know if the sights were a little off somehow or I was just tired and distracted, but I shot pretty badly with it, even though the recoil seemed more manageable than the other two guns. It's still high on the "maybe" list but I'd want to shoot it some more.

And Saturday's batch was:

• SD9VE, which I shot decently and liked well enough. Not ready to buy one until I try some more guns, though.
• XDm 9, which I liked pretty well. The grip safety didn't bother me the way I thought it would.
• Kahr P380, which I went full-on giddy-schoolgirl about. I just loved that little gun and shot better with it than anything else so far. But we had several FTEs in the course of shooting maybe 18 rounds, so my husband has argued strenuously against getting one. Plus he doesn't want to see me carrying a mousegun.

Long story short... I did some more reading and thinking and decided to take a chance on a CT380. For a little over $300 I can have a gun similar to the P380 that I liked so much; let's hope I get a good one and not a lemon like some of the threads I've read. This way, I can get used to shooting, work on my skills, and work on overcoming my flinch without having to contend with 9mm recoil.

In the mean time, I can keep researching higher-capacity full-size 9mm guns and trying them out at the range. That decision is nowhere near made yet, so keep those suggestions coming.

I appreciate all the thoughtful and knowledgeable replies on this thread. I can see I picked the right forum to register at!

 

[Tobinator]

Just testing... I had to register with Tapatalk and I'm wondering if it changes what username I post with.




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[Winkman822]

If you want to stick with a compact pistol, try a Walther P99C AS they definitely feel better in my hand than a Glock (I'm a guy with smallish hands). The P99C is going to give you the desired 10 round capacity, it will be compact and concealable (if that's an ultimate goal), and it has interchangeable back straps to customize the grip to fit your hand. I have a full sized P99 that I adore and keep the small back strap on it. I would also recommend looking at the Smith and Wesson M&P 9C, HK P30SK and HK P2000SK. Each of those has interchangeable back straps as well and will feel trimmer than a Glock and will also be a fairly soft shooter in terms of handling recoil impulse. The only downside to the HK's is price and in the case of the P2000SK, availability.

If a mid or full sized gun is the preference, I'd say look at the full sized P99 AS, the Walther PPQ, the Smith and Wesson M&P 9, the HK VP9, HK P30, or HK P2000. All will be on the softer shooting side and all have at least interchangeable back straps and the P30's and VP9 will also have interchangeable side panels to really help you customize how the gun fits your hand. The P99, PPQ and VP9 will have the best triggers of that lot.

 

[Tobinator]

If you want to stick with a compact pistol, try a Walther P99C AS they definitely feel better in my hand than a Glock (I'm a guy with smallish hands). The P99C is going to give you the desired 10 round capacity, it will be compact and concealable (if that's an ultimate goal), and it has interchangeable back straps to customize the grip to fit your hand. I have a full sized P99 that I adore and keep the small back strap on it. I would also recommend looking at the Smith and Wesson M&P 9C, HK P30SK and HK P2000SK. Each of those has interchangeable back straps as well and will feel trimmer than a Glock and will also be a fairly soft shooter in terms of handling recoil impulse. The only downside to the HK's is price and in the case of the P2000SK, availability.



If a mid or full sized gun is the preference, I'd say look at the full sized P99 AS, the Walther PPQ, the Smith and Wesson M&P 9, the HK VP9, HK P30, or HK P2000. All will be on the softer shooting side and all have at least interchangeable back straps and the P30's and VP9 will also have interchangeable side panels to really help you customize how the gun fits your hand. The P99, PPQ and VP9 will have the best triggers of that lot.

Excellent! Thank you, I will look into these. The more customizable the grip, the better.


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[Coal Dragger]

Although I'm not female, and don't have small hands (men's XL gloves for me) I can vouch for the HK VP-9 as being a very soft shooting pistol. Additionally the VP-9 due to the side panels and back panels (all included with the pistol) as well as the contouring of the grip frame is not at all blocky in the area where the web of your hand and thumb knuckle will contact it. Another benefit for a shooter with smaller hands is the HK magazine release, derided by some as awkward to use with your thumbs, it is blazing fast with your index finger on the shooting hand, plus it is ambidextrous and does not require you to shift your grip on the pistolen when activated by your index finger.

The HK P30 shares all of the same virtues, but is hammer fired instead of striker fired, and retails for a higher price than the VP-9. One notable benefit of the P30 if it fits your hands is that the P30 SK is also going to fit your hands too and will have the same trigger, and manual of arms as your full size pistol. Which is excellent from a training standpoint, all your range time will translate directly to the fundamentals with both pistols.

Other than initial cost a strong argument could be made for the HK P30 L (long slide) as a range/nightstand pistol, and an HK P30 SK as your carry pistol. The light LEM trigger would be a good choice for both to keep things simple. Also note that if you decided to carry a spare magazine your full size P30 mags will work in the P30 SK if you wanted your spare magazine to give you more of a reserve.

Those of us who are HK fans keep waiting for the VP-9 SK but no word yet.

 

[Tobinator]

Although I'm not female, and don't have small hands (men's XL gloves for me) I can vouch for the HK VP-9 as being a very soft shooting pistol. Additionally the VP-9 due to the side panels and back panels (all included with the pistol) as well as the contouring of the grip frame is not at all blocky in the area where the web of your hand and thumb knuckle will contact it. Another benefit for a shooter with smaller hands is the HK magazine release, derided by some as awkward to use with your thumbs, it is blazing fast with your index finger on the shooting hand, plus it is ambidextrous and does not require you to shift your grip on the pistolen when activated by your index finger.

The HK P30 shares all of the same virtues, but is hammer fired instead of striker fired, and retails for a higher price than the VP-9. One notable benefit of the P30 if it fits your hands is that the P30 SK is also going to fit your hands too and will have the same trigger, and manual of arms as your full size pistol. Which is excellent from a training standpoint, all your range time will translate directly to the fundamentals with both pistols.

Other than initial cost a strong argument could be made for the HK P30 L (long slide) as a range/nightstand pistol, and an HK P30 SK as your carry pistol. The light LEM trigger would be a good choice for both to keep things simple. Also note that if you decided to carry a spare magazine your full size P30 mags will work in the P30 SK if you wanted your spare magazine to give you more of a reserve.

Those of us who are HK fans keep waiting for the VP-9 SK but no word yet.

It looks like the ranges around here have the HK P30 for rental but not the VP-9; how do they compare in terms of recoil? (Or any other factors you feel are important?)

 

[Coal Dragger]

Recoil should be about the same between the two with an edge to the P30 because it is hammer fired. A hammer fired ignition system provides more resistance to slide opening because of the hammer's mainspring needing to be overcome in addition to the recoil spring for the slide. This delay in opening makes the recoil impulse slower and a bit softer.

Both should be accurate, and both will give the widest range of grip adaptability of any pistol on the market other than dedicated target pistols with magazines housed forward of the grip.

 

[zb338]

Colt has just come out with a model 1911 .380. The write up in
the "American Rifleman" magazine really rates it high in every
category except maybe that it is a little tiny bit too large. I have
seen it in the magazine standing next to a .45 1911 and it sure
doesn't look large. Get ahold of a "Rifleman" magazine and check
it out.
Zeke

 

[brutus51]

Might want to try a CZ PCR.

 

[Winkman822]

Recoil wise the difference will be negligible. The biggest difference between the two is going to be that the VP is striker fired where the P30 is hammer fired and comes in what is quite frankly a dizzying array of different trigger configurations, though a bit of research will get you pointed to what trigger system best fits your preferences and needs. Either one will be a great pistol. The plus on the P30 is that it does come in different sizes (i.e. long slide/barrel for the P30L, standard size for the P30, and a subcompact for the P30SK). Size wise, the standard P30 is right between a Glock 17 and Glock 19, but much more comfortable for someone with smaller hands.

 

[Warp]

Tobinator - Let me come at this from a slightly different perspective.

#1, Why have you set your minimum acceptable round count at 10? Not being controversial but if 10 is the lower limit, why not 11? Or 12? So why 10?

Mine is 10 as well. Because if you are going to have a lower limit, it has to be something specific. 10 is a not uncommon amount for a pistol's capacity and is reasonably achievable in a relatively compact, carry friendly package and it is an even, round number.

It looks like the ranges around here have the HK P30 for rental but not the VP-9; how do they compare in terms of recoil? (Or any other factors you feel are important?)

The recoil between them is substantially similar. However, the VP9's slide is easier to rack (wings/ears at the rear for assist) and the trigger is lighter and more consistent. Depending on the variant of P30 in question the VP9 is also more simple to operate since it is a no many safety striker gun, where the only controls are trigger, mag release, slide stop, the P30 may be similar in controls or it may add a safety or a decocker in addition (and may have multiple trigger pulls for different shots).

 

[Plan2Live]

Mine is 10 as well. Because if you are going to have a lower limit, it has to be something specific.

Thanks for the reply..Tobinator?

 

[Tobinator]

Thanks for the reply..Tobinator?

I replied in post 34 on this thread... unless there was a different question I missed. Let me know. The 10-round thing is pretty arbitrary, I admit.



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[Tobinator]

The recoil between them is substantially similar. However, the VP9's slide is easier to rack (wings/ears at the rear for assist) and the trigger is lighter and more consistent. Depending on the variant of P30 in question the VP9 is also more simple to operate since it is a no many safety striker gun, where the only controls are trigger, mag release, slide stop, the P30 may be similar in controls or it may add a safety or a decocker in addition (and may have multiple trigger pulls for different shots).

Cool--thanks for the detailed info! Hope to get out to the range this weekend and rent the P30.



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[Tobinator]

Recoil wise the difference will be negligible. The biggest difference between the two is going to be that the VP is striker fired where the P30 is hammer fired and comes in what is quite frankly a dizzying array of different trigger configurations, though a bit of research will get you pointed to what trigger system best fits your preferences and needs. Either one will be a great pistol. The plus on the P30 is that it does come in different sizes (i.e. long slide/barrel for the P30L, standard size for the P30, and a subcompact for the P30SK). Size wise, the standard P30 is right between a Glock 17 and Glock 19, but much more comfortable for someone with smaller hands.

Interesting. So far my experience has only been with striker-fired pistols. So many details to learn—i have some more reading to do.



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