Similar to Kahr but higher capacity?

[Tobinator]

Hi, new poster here. I'm trying to decide on a first gun to buy and would appreciate any advice. Long story short, I'm in love with Kahrs but want a gun with at least a 10-round capacity...

A few details ...

• Of the guns I've rented/tried so far, my favorites have been Kahr guns, maybe because of the thinner grips and shorter trigger reach. They fit my hand much better.
• I'm female. My hands aren't particularly small for a woman, but they're smaller than a lot of men's hands, I'm sure. (So I've been reading a lot of old threads on guns for small hands.)
• I'm somewhat recoil-sensitive. I have a spot at the base of my thumb that gets painful fast if I shoot a gun with heavy recoil or a thick grip.
• I've tried three Glocks (43, 26, 17). All make my hand hurt. Just can't seem to get comfortable with the grip.
• All this sounds like "Get a Kahr then," right? Except I'm interested in doing practice sessions with a local group of women shooters, and they do some drills where I think a 7- or 8-round mag just isn't going to cut it.
• Leaning toward 9mm for cheaper ammo and so my husband and I can share ammo.
• My priorities are to get a range gun first and then a carry gun (which I would still practice with periodically). I'm assuming I probably won't find one gun that's great for both.

So far I'm somewhat leaning toward the S&W SD9VE for a range gun (good capacity and low cost, and I did OK with it). But I could use some recommendations on other ones to try out.

For a carry gun I want to try out some more of the Kahrs. I loved the K9 but it's pricey and probably a little big to carry. I was crazy about the P380 for its feel and accuracy, but we had a whole slew of malfunctions with the rental gun and I know 380 is widely seen as marginal for self-defense.

 

[tdbmd]

I carry a Kahr most often. 7-8 rounds is likely to be plenty in a civilian involved shooting. But I do carry a second magazine

 

[red rick]

If you like Kahr pistols I would choose the CW9 with 8+1 magazines . You are limited with a single stack pistol .

I have a P9 with night sights but do not think it is worth the price difference .

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

You might check out the SCCY CPX-2 for your carry. I'm actually in the same boat for a new summertime carry but am trying to wait out for their new CPX-3, which is essentially very similar but .380 instead of 9mm. I'm getting antsy though so I may very well just end up going with the CPX-2 and saying the heck with it. The CPX line up is one of few small pistols that come out of the box with the ability to get three fingers around the grip, which is important to me. As for capacity, both the existing CPX's and the new .380 all have 10+1.


As for the SD9VE it seems to be a great value and gets mostly good reviews. I was literally just in the same boat earlier this year between that and the Canik TP9. I chose the TP9 for a little bit more barrel and a fair amount more capacity. For your "full size" I would say a little bigger is better, although I think either would serve you well.

 

[seeker_two]

Have you tried the Ruger SR9c? It's pretty slim for a double-stack subcompact, and it holds 10 rounds.

 

[strambo]

I'd keep trying out smaller 9mm double stacks, the Sig P320 SC, the smaller Walther and HK models, S&W Shield etc.

As far as capacity goes, my wife went to a 2 day defensive handgun class with a 7 shot revolver and 4 speed loaders in kydex pouches I made her. A 7-8rd magazine plus 1 in the pipe and a fast magazine reload from a kydex mag pouch is pretty easy. You'll just get more reloading practice than the others. Heck, I carry a 15rd P226, but when I train I just load my mags with 4-10 or so and practice more emergency reloads that way.

I have had a K9 for over a decade, it is a great carry gun, all you need is a proper gun belt and good holster and it carries easy.

 

[herrwalther]

All this sounds like "Get a Kahr then," right? Except I'm interested in doing practice sessions with a local group of women shooters, and they do some drills where I think a 7- or 8-round mag just isn't going to cut it.

It looks to me this is your only hangup against getting a Kahr. If Kahr is the most comfortable firearm for you to shoot, get one. What your shooting friends think means little, if anything. You can still practice with them, and you will get better at magazine changes because you have less rounds.

 

[gilfo]

Great for small hands. Can even get the larger 17 rd SR9 mag with adapter.

 

[Tallball]

I had the 40 caliber version of the S&W SD-whatever. The trigger was horrible. That doubtless varies from gun to gun. Maybe some of them are better than others.

For a range gun I always suggest something as large and heavy as the person can comfortably shoot. It will be more pleasant and more accurate as a result. My small-handed friend can shoot my Browning High Power pretty well. I am not an expert on them, but maybe someone could chime in with info on a 3rd gen S&W. It seems like I have seen one that was medium-sized, and I am pretty sure some had double-stack magazines.

I can shoot my larger steel pistols for hours, NP. It's the smaller ones that hurt my hand.

 

[Tobinator]

Thanks you guys, I appreciate the suggestions!

I tried a Ruger SR9 yesterday and unfortunately I was feeling the recoil more than with the other guns, so I took that one off my list...

I'll check out the SCCY, I hadn't heard of that one yet. Part of me thinks it would be ideal to find a range gun chambered in 380 with 10+ rounds capacity, and just have my carry gun be 9mm (why beat up my hands more than I have to?), although then again, the ammo would cost more.

I found a range near here that rents a couple of HK and Walther models, so I think I will check those out too. Strambo, I'm glad to hear your wife was able to manage a 2-day class with a 7-shot gun; I've been considering signing up for a class like that and I was wondering how to manage it with a lower-capacity gun if that's what I buy. Guess I'd get good at reloading.

I think my next step is to go rent some more guns, hopefully tomorrow... Looking at HK P30, maybe check out a Walther, the CW-9, and probably try the SD9VE again.

Good to see Kahr is well-regarded. I am so drawn to their guns, although my husband is a big Glock fan and very skeptical of Kahr. We've both read the same threads about reliability, I think I'm just more inclined to think "it'll work out somehow" because those guns feel so great in my hand.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Thanks you guys, I appreciate the suggestions!

I tried a Ruger SR9 yesterday and unfortunately I was feeling the recoil more than with the other guns, so I took that one off my list...

I'll check out the SCCY, I hadn't heard of that one yet. Part of me thinks it would be ideal to find a range gun chambered in 380 with 10+ rounds capacity, and just have my carry gun be 9mm (why beat up my hands more than I have to?), although then again, the ammo would cost more.

I found a range near here that rents a couple of HK and Walther models, so I think I will check those out too. Strambo, I'm glad to hear your wife was able to manage a 2-day class with a 7-shot gun; I've been considering signing up for a class like that and I was wondering how to manage it with a lower-capacity gun if that's what I buy. Guess I'd get good at reloading.

I think my next step is to go rent some more guns, hopefully tomorrow... Looking at HK P30, maybe check out a Walther, the CW-9, and probably try the SD9VE again.

Good to see Kahr is well-regarded. I am so drawn to their guns, although my husband is a big Glock fan and very skeptical of Kahr. We've both read the same threads about reliability, I think I'm just more inclined to think "it'll work out somehow" because those guns feel so great in my hand.

Just on the tid-bit about your range gun versus carry gun, your carry gun SHOULD be the one you practice with the most. Regardless of size or caliber it should be your most utilized practice firearm. This can not be stressed enough.

Hence, it stands to reason great thought needs to be put forth on all of the intricacies of your carry gun to be, because if you don't enjoy practicing with it you probably won't, and that's the biggest caveat a lot of folks don't take into consideration or don't care about.


No need to rush things, take your time. This is coming from someone who has been researching CC for over a year now and still doesn't have his license, YET. I want to gather my gear, get comfortable with it and get educated before carrying a firearm into public. It IS an overwhelming responsibility.

 

[Tobinator]

Just on the tid-bit about your range gun versus carry gun, your carry gun SHOULD be the one you practice with the most. Regardless of size or caliber it should be your most utilized practice firearm. This can not be stressed enough.

Hence, it stands to reason great thought needs to be put forth on all of the intricacies of your carry gun to be, because if you don't enjoy practicing with it you probably won't, and that's the biggest caveat a lot of folks don't take into consideration or don't care about.


No need to rush things, take your time. This is coming from someone who has been researching CC for over a year now and still doesn't have his license, YET. I want to gather my gear, get comfortable with it and get educated before carrying a firearm into public. It IS an overwhelming responsibility.

The tricky thing for me is that if a gun is small enough to carry comfortably yet powerful enough to be effective, it's probably going to have a kick, and therefore I may not be able/inclined to spend most of my range time shooting it. Some of it, sure.

Not in a great hurry to carry. It's a big mental adjustment. I can see good reasons to do it, but it's a new idea for me and I haven't even begun to figure out holster options, etc., not to mention getting more training.




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[Tobinator]

Oh, one more factor to throw into the mix. I've already developed sort of a flinch. Struggling and mostly failing to keep my eye open when it goes bang. Is it reasonable to expect I can overcome this while shooting 9mm or would it be wiser to go to a smaller caliber for a while?


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[JohnKSa]

I'm somewhat recoil-sensitive. I have a spot at the base of my thumb that gets painful fast if I shoot a gun with heavy recoil or a thick grip.

You're probably not as recoil-sensitive as you think. I suspect that what's happening is is a grip that's too large/trigger reach that's too long.

When that happens, the shooter has to shoot with his/her hand offset to reach the trigger.

That means instead of the gun recoiling into the soft area between your thumb and forefinger, your hand is repositioned so that the gun recoils into the base knuckle of your thumb.

Here are some images to help explain.

Grip is too large/trigger reach is too long so the shooter offsets hand on the pistol to reach trigger.
[resize=600] [/resize]

Grip is the right size and shooter can reach the trigger with the gun gripped properly.

 

[greenlion]

If the Glock 17 is too thick for you, you probably aren't going to get along with most double stack autos. Kahr makes larger target pistols too. The T9 has a really comfortable grip and a little more weight than the polymer version (The TP9). They have a 4 inch barrel, a full sized grip, and 8+1 capacity.

 

[NormH3]

I think I would look at SCCY (pronounced "Sky") CPX2 Gen 2 as well. It has a 10 round capacity but there is a 15 round mag available to. You could carry the 15 round as your backup. The Gen 2 is DAO only and there is no safety to fumble with. The price point is good as well. I plan to look at them someday myself. Ironically, I just found this photo comparing SCCY with KAHR.

 

[Tobinator]

You're probably not as recoil-sensitive as you think. I suspect that what's happening is is a grip that's too large/trigger reach that's too long.

When that happens, the shooter has to shoot with his/her hand offset to reach the trigger.

Thank you--that is extremely helpful. I actually went looking for that kind of information initially when the injury occurred, and what I found wasn't as clear as what you just provided. But I too had formed the hypothesis that the gun was too big for my hand, causing an offset grip.

The surprising thing is, the Glock 26 I had been shooting actually wasn't too big. I could easily reach the trigger while keeping the gun properly aligned so the recoil would go into my forearm instead of my thumb. It's possible that on my first two range trips (ever) I was careless or uninformed about my grip and did that anyway. But after that, I was careful about my grip, and in one trip tried three different Glocks that all banged up my thumb joint. My husband wants me to try his Glock 19 next but I'm not optimistic... That wide blocky grip just hits my hand in the wrong spot somehow.

 

[Tobinator]

I think I would look at SCCY (pronounced "Sky") CPX2 Gen 2 as well. It has a 10 round capacity but there is a 15 round mag available to. You could carry the 15 round as your backup. The Gen 2 is DAO only and there is no safety to fumble with. The price point is good as well. I plan to look at them someday myself.

Interesting. I looked them up and found widely varied reviews... mostly positive but a few lengthy diatribes from owners who had problems. (Sounds a bit like the Kahr reviews out there.) I wish our local ranges had these to rent. I hesitate to buy without trying it, especially since I'm reading there is a pronounced trigger break... I'm trying to overcome that blink reflex, and I feel like it's hard when the trigger pull basically announces "OK, it's gonna fire NOW." But I'm psyched to see a gun that size with a larger capacity and a lower price. I'll research some more....

 

[Tobinator]

If the Glock 17 is too thick for you, you probably aren't going to get along with most double stack autos. Kahr makes larger target pistols too. The T9 has a really comfortable grip and a little more weight than the polymer version (The TP9). They have a 4 inch barrel, a full sized grip, and 8+1 capacity.

I should check that out. Not sure I can rent one at the local ranges. I have to admit I'm put off by the wood grips (not the look I really like). The K9 is still on my maybe list... do you know if there is a noticeable difference in recoil between the K9 and T9?

 

[JohnKSa]

That wide blocky grip just hits my hand in the wrong spot somehow.

If your hands are really small, the back of the grip could be wide enough that one edge is hitting your thumb knuckle even when the gun is properly positioned in your hand. If that's what's happening, you're probably going to be limited to guns with pretty narrow grips.

All the double-stack guns are going to have thicker grips. You can try them to see if you can find one with a grip that's just enough narrower that it doesn't bother your thumb.

 

[Tobinator]

If your hands are really small, the back of the grip could be wide enough that one edge is hitting your thumb knuckle even when the gun is properly positioned in your hand. If that's what's happening, you're probably going to be limited to guns with pretty narrow grips.

All the double-stack guns are going to have thicker grips. You can try them to see if you can find one with a grip that's just enough narrower that it doesn't bother your thumb.

Agreed, trying them will be key. With some guns I can tell as soon as I pick them up that they're not going to be a good fit. My hands aren't super small, but I can feel a bump at that thumb knuckle and I don't know whether it's a peculiarity of my hand that's always been there, or the result of injuring my hand in those first two range sessions. If I hit it wrong, ouch. Glock grips definitely hit it. I've read the grip angle is different but don't know if that's a factor.

 

[ROCK6]

Too bad the Ruger SR9c doesn't work. My wife first picked up the thinner, single stack LC9. She likes it for CCW, but the narrow frame beats up the web of her hand limiting how many rounds she's comfortable with during a training session. The double stack SR9c is her choice of enjoyment when training. It's a smaller grip than most double stack pistols and is just slightly larger than the Glock 26. It's tough, but you're doing the right thing and testing out various pistols and it's more important that you actually spend some time shooting viable options.

I've carried the Kahr (CM9) quite often over the past couple years. It is a great CCW choice. I personally wouldn't let the magazine capacity steer you away from a platform that fits you well and is comfortable to shoot. I do carry a spare magazine, so with a magazine change, I'm over 10 rounds. Another important factor is that I know several people who CCW and don't carry a spare magazine. If you every practice any Failure to Eject (FTE) or Failure to Fire (FTF) drills, you can easily end up dropping the magazine and it's a prudent insurance to have that spare on hand.

I'm interested it what you'll end up with, so please follow up once you narrow your choices down or choose you pistol.

ROCK6

 

[drband]

Don't overlook the SW Shield in 9mm. It has a very thin grip and is a comfortable shooter for smaller hands. Most ranges rent them.

 

[kokapelli]

EAA Tanfoglio Whitness Pavona is a 14+1 pistol designed specifically for women and is a fine shooter with a thin grip and is a very soft shooting 380.

It has an excellent trigger and an easy to rack slide.

 

[Stormbilly]

What about a 9mm 1911? They have extremely low recoil since it's a large all steel gun and a very nice trigger to go with it. Overall, a joy to shoot. You can even put thinner grips on them if you need it. Something like the Springfield range officer in 9mm would be nice, but there are many other people that make them.