Single Action Army Questions

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Mr. Mosin

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I ‘ve been thinking, and reading some (Oh boy, here we go !!!); and I have a question. In it’s common chambering of .45 Colt, is there any other revolver that can even approach the “light for cartridge”, “stout as heck”, and “easy to maintain and repair” nature of the Colt 1873 pattern single action revolver (and clones) ? You could literally repair anything in it with a flat screwdriver and the appropriate part, and failing that; a pocketknife could be shoehorned into working as a screwdriver. They’ll operate without a single spring in em (you just gotta have a stick to hit the rear of the hammer).

The same can not be said for any given Smith double action, or any automatic; as much as I love and adore S&W wheelguns. Ruger, you *might* could do it with a SP101 or GP100 if the break/issue didn’t effect the trigger group.

As said before, fancy tools are unnecessary- a simple flat bladed screwdriver will permit access to and exchange of any readily repairable part. Punches and etc are unnecessary excepting the hammer nose
 
They were quite the engineering marvel, in my opinion. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the revolvers of that era were similarly simple, as well.

Not actually being either a gunsmith with that kind of experience or an owner of any wheel guns other than my own gorgeous Generation 3 Colt SAA, I can't speak with certainty, though.
 
They were quite the engineering marvel, in my opinion. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the revolvers of that era were similarly simple, as well.

Not actually being either a gunsmith with that kind of experience or an owner of any wheel guns other than my own gorgeous Generation 3 Colt SAA, I can't speak with certainty, though.
If only Remington had produced the ‘75 two years earlier and won the ‘73 Army contract...
 
I have owned revolvers for several decades and have never had one break. and if it did I would just buy the parts to repair it. I don't understand some people's fascination with guns breaking on them. I am guessing this comes from folks who don't own any guns and it must be an endless worry for those with no real gun ownership experience. But don't worry OP some day you will own a gun other than the Ruger Wrangler and you will find that if you don't tinker with them they are very dependable.

The only guns I have ever had to repair or work on were used guns I bought that someone took apart and changed springs on or other "adjustments" that put the gun out of spec and in one case out of operation. It was reassembled incorrectly. And who knows, maybe the prior owner went around hitting the hammer with a stick.
 
Not sure as simple as you suggest as some parts d o require some fitting but yes, the saa stands alone for simplicity. I have worked on more than a few.

In one old article in Guns&Ammo writer Bob Milek was talking about how simple the single action was compared to the double action and had a S&W and Ruger single action taken completely apart. The funny part was that the single action Ruger had two more parts than the Smith & Wesson. I may even still have that article stowed away in my attic.
 
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In one old article in Guns&Ammo writer Bob Milek was talking about how simple the single action was compared to the double action and had a S&W and Ruger single action taken completely apart. The funny part was that the single action Ruger had two more parts than the Smith & Wesson. I may even still have that article stowed away in my attic.
n original 1873 (or clone) would be simpler with less parts, I’d guess; than a Smith double action.
 
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n original 1873 (or clone) would be simpler with less parts, I’d guess; than a Smith double action.

It may have a couple less parts. Maybe. But so what? Colt and clones have a weak bolt spring that is prone to breakage. You can buy better springs or IIRC a complete work around with a spring steel wire spring. But its a small easy to replace part.

One article I read said one of the problems were that the fingers on the flat spring are the same width their full length. The author suggested adding a taper to the fingers so the spring flexed along its full length. Is that a good modification? Heck if I know. But it sounds reasonable.If I wanted a Colt type single action I would just buy a Ruger Vaquero and sleep easy at night knowing it will never break.

So far as I know about the only part that might break on your Ruger is the transfer bar and thats only if it is not fitted correctly. But I will leave that test and fix up to you and your googlefoo to figure out. If you can't figure it out in a couple of days send me an email and I will tell you. I tested all my Ruger single actions and they are all fitted properly on the transfer bar. So I'm GTG.
 
Howdy

In my experience, you cannot take a Single Action Army apart with just one screwdriver. It is always best to use a screw driver, or screw driver bit that is the same width as the diameter of the screw head. The slots on gun screws tend to be quite narrow, so the screwdriver tip needs to be thin. Also best if it is hollow ground, meaning the sides of the bit are parallel at the tip. Hardware store screwdrivers tend to be wedge shaped, which means they naturally want to try to climb out of the screw slot when torque is applied, a good way to bugger up the screw head. Anyway, the head of the screw fastening the hammer spring to the grip frame is larger in diameter than any of the other screws and it is best to use a wide screw bit to loosen this screw. Using a narrow bit can result in the tip bending or breaking. Trust me on this. The grip screws, all inserted into their respective holes in the frame in this photo, sit in counterbored holes, so a bit must be used which fits down into the counterbore without scraping the sides of the hole.

poneYa7Rj.jpg




This is my collection of Brownells Magna-Tip screwdrivers. It is not necessary to have this many bits to take a SAA apart, you can buy a handle and with 3 bits from Brownells that will specifically fit all the screws in a SAA. I have a lot of guns, made by many makers, so I like to have a large variety of screw bits handy.

pmIuG8Mlj.jpg




Regarding broken parts in a SAA, the broken trigger/bolt spring at the top of this photo is the part that breaks most often in a SAA. This is the way this part typically breaks, right at the base of one of the legs, where the metal is stressed the most as it flexes. The broken bolt is somewhat unusual. Notice where it broke, right at the two narrowest cross sections 180 degrees apart across the hole. This part is made of spring steel, the broken arm flexes every time the hammer falls, and over time metal fatigue set in and it broke. By the way, this is not a drop in part, it took an expert gunsmith (not me) about an hour to fit a new one.

pmP2syuKj.jpg




The other spring that commonly breaks in a SAA is the hand spring. It is peened into a slot in the hand. This spring tends to break right at the sharp curve where it emerges from the hand. When this spring breaks in an Italian clone, one can buy a new hand with the spring attached. Again, the new hand may not be a drop in part, it may need to be fitted. I have found it is easier to drive the remainder of the broken spring out by driving in a new spring. Then no fitting is required to a new hand.

poqUVs9Jj.jpg




The Remington 1875 and 1890 action is very similar to a Colt SAA. The hand only has one point instead of two teeth of the Colt hand, and since the grip frame is not two separate pieces there are fewer screws. Also, the Colt hand pivots in the hammer by way of a pin on the hand inserted into a hole in the hammer. The Remington hand is screwed to the hammer. The hammer cannot be removed until it is lowered far enough in the frame allow the hand screw to be unfastened, then the hammer can be withdrawn through the top of the frame. Both the trigger and the bolt on the Remington pivot on the same screw, so that makes for one less screw in the parts count.

poNBV2G9j.jpg




When Ruger started making his Three Screw Single Six and Three Screw Blackhawks in the 1950s, he substituted wire coil springs for the leaf springs of the Colt. Coil springs are almost unbreakable, because the flex is spread over the entire length of the spring instead of one narrow spot in a leaf spring. The action of the old Three Screw Rugers worked almost exactly the same as a SAA, but the parts count went up because each coil spring needed a plunger to go along with it to present the spring force to the appropriate part.

poM8zo27j.jpg




When the New Model Rugers with transfer bars came out in the mid 1970s, the part count went up again. By the way, I can almost take a Colt apart and put it back again blindfolded, it's that easy. Putting one of these back together again is a pain and usually involves some gnashing of teeth.

pnMLZCdMj.jpg




I don't like to take an antique Smith and Wesson #3 Top Break apart all the way. I just remove the parts that can be taken out with a screw driver, I don't like to drive out the pins the trigger and bolt rotate on.

pmZJZYZoj.jpg




I don't have an exploded view of all the lockwork parts in a modern Smith and Wesson, the next time I take one apart I will have to take one. I use a couple of different sized screw drivers to take one apart, and a special tool to shove the rebound slide spring into place in the rebound slide during reassembly.

poDINUhbj.jpg
 
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Howdy

In my experience, you cannot take a Single Action Army apart with just one screwdriver. It is always best to use a screw driver, or screw driver bit that is the same width as the diameter of the screw head. The slots on gun screws tend to be quite narrow, so the screwdriver tip needs to be thin. Also best if it is hollow ground, meaning the sides of the bit are parallel at the tip. Hardware store screwdrivers tend to be wedge shaped, which means they naturally want to try to climb out of the screw slot when torque is applied, a good way to bugger up the screw head. Anyway, the head of the screw fastening the hammer spring to the grip frame is larger in diameter than any of the other screws and it is best to use a wide screw bit to loosen this screw. Using a narrow bit can result in the tip bending or breaking. Trust me on this. The grip screws, all inserted into their respective holes in the frame in this photo, sit in counterbored holes, so a bit must be used which fits down into the counterbore without scraping the sides of the hole.

View attachment 1022090




This is my collection of Brownells Magna-Tip screwdrivers. It is not necessary to have this many bits to take a SAA apart, you can buy a handle and with 3 bits from Brownells that will specifically fit all the screws in a SAA. I have a lot of guns, made by many makers, so I like to have a large variety of screw bits handy.


WOW, where/how do you get the time to do these detailed messages ?
Magna-Tip is my favorite also!
 
Things to note in DJ's pics: in the top pic of the Colt parts the combo spring has a thin bolt side. The Remington combo spring also has a thin bolt side. This is the correct/ original design for the combo spring. The pic of the broken combo spring shows a wider bolt side (broken side) and a thinner trigger side . . . the reverse of the "design". For the longest time the Italians made them this way and this is why they are such a problem.
The bolt side moves much more than the trigger side and therefore is stressed more which leads to failure. The bolt only needs about 3 lbs of pressure. Saplings bend, Oaks break! For that reason, the same thing happens with the bolt arms (as pictured) the left arm broke because it is much too thick. The true design of the bolt is with the left arm ( the working arm) thin . . . just like a true Colts part. Uberti has been making correct springs for a good while now, Pietta is still stuck in the '80s !!!

Mike
 
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Driftwood: Don't you recall the 'do it all' tool Colt marketed with their 2nd gen. SAA's............that circular multi blade screwdriver...................don't have one, or I'd post a px.
 
The hand spring broke in a reproduction 1851 Navy I have, fitting the new one involved putting it in a vise and giving it a good sharp blow with a ball peen hammer. It's a good thing I still had the old one to use as a template, it would have been difficult to figure out what was needed to make the other one work without being able to see a very distinct bend in the original part. The internal parts of the SAA are pretty similar to the 51.
 
just like a true Colts part. Uberti has been making correct springs for a good while now, Pietta is still stuck in the '80s !!!

I am a little bit confused over what you are saying. As far as I know, that broken spring is a Colt part, not an Italian part. I bought that Colt about 20 years ago, it left the factory in 1968. Perhaps at some point before I bought it the spring was replaced with an Uberti spring. Is that what you are saying?

This is a close up of the split spring currently in that Colt. I seem to recall I got some genuine Colt 2nd Gen parts at some point. This photo also shows the replaced bolt. Clearly there is a greater gap between the legs on this spring than on the broken one.

po0cCbPOj.jpg




Here is a photo showing the split spring inside an old Bisley Colt. Does that look correct to you?

pnAwTHYsj.jpg
 
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Hey DJ, those two look correct. The broken spring in your pic is definitely not a Colt spring. The bolt side (broken side) is considerably wider the the trigger side.

Mike
 
A lot of people disregard them as antiquated but the Colt SAA and its replicas offers a lot in a tidy package. A 4¾" .45Colt is only 36oz and that's light enough to forget it's there but still heavy enough to shoot with comfort and precision. A 250-270gr cast bullet at 900fps will do most of what needs doing. IMHO, issues of longevity are overblown. I've been shooting these guns for 35yrs and have dozens of them. I've only replaced broken springs twice, one was a high mileage Colt Frontier Scout that wasn't even mine. They just don't break as often as a lot of folks seem to think.
 
Lol! DJ, thats a good spring too! The trigger side is wider (allows for more adjustment) and the bolt side is appropriately narrow because not much tension needed.

Mike
 
In my limited experience, I have broken one trigger/bolt spring and one hand spring, watched a friend break a bolt.

I have seen recommendations to taper the legs of the trigger/bolt spring and to round the end of the notch to reduce breakage.
When I was active in SASS, there was some discussion that the wire bolt springs were too weak and would allow the cylinder to "over throw" if cocked hard.

A friend has Taylors with "Rugerized" hands; coil and plunger instead of leaf. Not authentic, but more durable.

I have seen instructions for fitting the bolt and hammer cam for longer service.
 
...... You could literally repair anything in it with a flat screwdriver and the appropriate part, and failing that; a pocketknife could be shoehorned into working as a screwdriver. They’ll operate without a single spring in em (you just gotta have a stick to hit the rear of the hammer).

The same can not be said for any given Smith double action, or any automatic; as much as I love and adore S&W wheelguns. Ruger, you *might* could do it with a SP101 or GP100 if the break/issue didn’t effect the trigger group.

As said before, fancy tools are unnecessary- a simple flat bladed screwdriver will permit access to and exchange of any readily repairable part. Punches and etc are unnecessary excepting the hammer nose
Ummmmm.................a Colt 1911 and many other single action pistols will fire without springs by whacking the hammer with a stick.
As far as takedown, the 1911 can be disassembled without using ANY TOOLS:https://sightm1911.com/lib/tech/toolbox.htm
 
I have seen instructions for fitting the bolt and hammer cam for longer service.


If it was a video where the guy told you to get extra parts, parts are cheap, don't pay a gunsmith, well, then you still don't know how to fit a bolt and what to do with the cam!!! Lol!!! Be careful what you take in as "education" !! This same guy calls the parts by the wrong name much of the time.

Mike
 
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