sizing die problem.

[Captain Quack]

I had no idea there was any such thing as a deprime without sizing die. I have no idea where I got it. I haven't bought any new dies in years. 9mmepiphany. Why would I want an undersized sizing die? I ordered a standard 9mm carbide decap/sizer but I can send that back if need be and buy one of the undersized ones.

 

[R44 flyer]

I had no idea there was any such thing as a deprime without sizing die. I have no idea where I got it. I haven't bought any new dies in years. 9mmepiphany. Why would I want an undersized sizing die? I ordered a standard 9mm carbide decap/sizer but I can send that back if need be and buy one of the undersized ones.

It was suggested to use a decapping die in station 1 of the load master and a sizing die with the decapper removed in station 2. That is why you likely had the decapping die. Find your 9mm sizing die in your collection and you will be in business.

 

[Captain Quack]

You mean dig through the rest of the other 97 boxes I packed reloading stuff into when we had to move without notice lol. Actually. Now that you mention it. I don't use a primer on the loadmaster because I like to hand prime so have that second hole open. That explains why I might have had that die. I have a 5 hole head with the .38/.357 decap/sizer and the .30 collet puller and the decapper that turns out to not have a sizing function. I now have a very faint memory of trying that setup just before we had to crash move. Decap in bulk for both calibers. Then swap heads to the desired caliber. Do the sizing on the first hole without a decapper, Skip the second hole. Powder on the third. Bullet seater on 4 and Factory Crimp die on 5. I know it's been a while since I was reloading before I got sick again but forgetting that is a wee bit ridiculous. You saved the day R44 flyer. Thank you. If all you guys keep sharing things, I may just learn something. Just out of curiosity. Any idea why it might be good to set it up that way? When would you prime? If I did that with hand priming I would punch out the primer first and then size where the primer feeder went.

Captain Quack with much gratitude.

 

[Zendude]

When reloading 9mm mixed range brass, I would always get a few that wouldn’t seat fully in the Wilson case gauge. The only way I found to remedy this 100% of the time (so far) with Lee dies is to use both the undersize sizing die and the Factory Crimp Die. Using either the FCD or U die (but not both) would reduce the number of rounds that won’t seat in the gauge, but not completely eliminate the issue.
That said, the rounds that wouldn’t seat in the gauge would always still plunk in the barrel of my 9mm guns. So, it’s not something I fret about anymore.

 

[Captain Quack]

As soon as I read about them, I bought Lee carbide FCD right away and eventually carbide dies for all calibers (IIRC). It's not like I don't have enough 9 mm brass as much as that is possible. When we're at the range, we take the time and effort to lay down a tarp to catch as much of our own brass as we can. I'm not a huge fan of range brass. A few of these cases couldn't even come close to seating, but I guess I know the reason now. I just looked and can't find a 9 mm sizing die anywhere. The replacement should be here tomorrow. Moving with no notice meant lots of confusion and lost items.

 

[Click_Here]

Die mix ups. gotta happen to some people at some point. I seated 100 rounds of 223 with my 300 black out seating die once on accident. it worked but i still felt really dumb about it.

 

[Captain Quack]

I finally figured out how to tell the carbide dies from the steel ones. Methinks I'm going to have a few things to pass on.

 

[Captain Quack]

Call this phase 2: Brand New Shiny 9 mm sizing die. Pulled the decapping pin (since I will be using a universal decaper on another die head). Every sized case goes flush into the case checker. The new Lee Auto Disk powder measure is fantastic. Nice and accurate and consistent, and case flair is perfect. Muchly more gooder than old one. The Bullet seater die sets OAL very nicely and consistently. I crimp with Lee factory crimp die and bullets no longer will sit flush in the case checker. New Winchester brass and RMR 115 gr FMJ Rd Nose bullets.

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...rmr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

I've adjusted the FCD from none to must be way too tight and the rounds will just drop into the case with rims just above. They are consistent in that. It's off to my favorite (only) reloading/shooting store to get me some more lube and 9mm defense loads. Hope people are having a good warm go to the range weekend!
Captain Quack.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I crimp with Lee factory crimp die and bullets no longer will sit flush in the case checker.

I may be picking nits, but need some clarification of this statement. I'm not intending to be condescending, but given you prior unfamiliarity with a universal decapping die, I'm not taking anything for granted

Are you referring to just the bullets or to the loaded cartridge?
What is a "case checker"...do you mean a case gauge? Which one?
If a loaded cartridge, do you mean that some are shorter than the depth of the gauge?
Are you referring to the case head being above a case gauge when the gauge is on a flat surface?

 

[Blue68f100]

I crimp with Lee factory crimp die and bullets no longer will sit flush in the case checker. New Winchester brass and RMR 115 gr FMJ Rd Nose bullets.

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...rmr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

I've adjusted the FCD from none to must be way too tight and the rounds will just drop into the case with rims just above. They are consistent in that. It's off to my favorite (only) reloading/shooting store to get me some more lube and 9mm defense loads. Hope people are having a good warm go to the range weekend!
Captain Quack.

Just use the std taper crimp die. You may want to mark up the bullet and see where it's hanging up at. I'm not a fan of the LFCD, don't use them. I prefer to locate the root problem then correct that.

 

[Captain Quack]

9mmepiphany. I'm not taking anything personally that isn't meant as a deliberate personal attack. I have a fair idea of what I don't know, and that's lots. When I size a die with the 9mm sizer die in the press without a deprimer pin (because I already deprimed them on a dedicated deprimer die head and hand primed). I pulled that sized case out of the press at that point. Drop that into a case gauge. The case sits flush in the gauge in all 7 holes. 7 sized cases all sitting flush. Run the press. Powder and flair. Bullet seat. Factory Crimp die. Take that loaded bullet and drop it in the case gauge and they consistently sit above the edge with the rim showing. All showing to the same amount. None higher. None lower. I've watched a dozen "how to set up your factory crimp die" videos and have tried everything shown. Most of which were the same. No matter what, they sit high. I took a bunch to the range Thursday and all three 9 m, turned into jam-o-matics. Lots of stove-pipes and FTF. This is the case gauge.

https://www.egwguns.com/case-gauge-ammo-checker-9-mm-7-hole

My beloved Wife is really starting to get frustrated with not having reliable ammunition for her new 9mm sub compact. If anyone has questions please ask and don't worry about hurting my feelings. A snowflake I am not.

 

[buck460XVR]

^^^....after the last post by the OP, I'm guessing it's not a "sizing die" problem but either his OAL is too long or he has adjusted his crimp die so that it is bulging the case

 

[lordpaxman]

The case sits flush in the gauge in all 7 holes. 7 sized cases all sitting flush.

Your sizing step sounds just fine, and, the case length is within spec. It has to be something else.

How much flare or bell are you doing? For RMR’s jacketed bullet, it doesn’t have to be a lot. Picture?

How did you determine your COL, and, what is it? Have you tried a factory round in the gauge, and compared COLs?

RMR’s 115 RN are generally bulletproof (sic) when it comes to reloading and fitting in guns.

You can take a black sharpie and color the round, put it in the gauge, and try to see where it’s binding. You’re not using EGW’s large ogive gauge so perhaps the gauge is saying something about the length of the round.

 

[ballman6711]

Take a few of your finished rounds and "plunk" them in the barrel. If they don't go all the way in easily then use a sharpie on the round/s and plunk again. This should tell you where the problem is.

And pictures would help.

chris

 

[Captain Quack]

I agree it's not the sizing die since the cases are 100% consistent in going flush in the case gauge. I've checked the OAL 7 times in the newest Speer manual for this type and weight of bullet. Consistent to 3 places and close on the 4th. As I said I have set the FCD from nothing to really really tight. I have looked at the loaded cases and have seen no bulges, but maybe I should meter them to make sure. I think perhaps part of the problem is I'm not certain how to tell that the bullet is properly crimped. I have a hard time telling if it's enough or too much. Tell me what you want pictures of and I'll get them right away. I think the flair is good. Bullet just barely sits in the case when I hit the bullet seating stage. I have tried 3 brands of factory JHP ammo in the gauge, and it sits flush. I haven't however compared OAL because I was using JHP for the seating test for commercial as I didn't have any commercial equivalent for the 119gr RMR "plinkers" I'll try the sharpie test on the case right now.

 

[Jim Watson]

My EGW cartridge gauge is too tight, it will not pass rounds that my Lyman die or a gun barrel will. I only use it when replicating a factory load with almost no bearing surface above the mouth of he case.

 

[Captain Quack]

Bunch of pictures. Hope I got what everyone wanted.

 

[Jim Watson]

That bullet shape will not pass the EGW gauge, it doesn't have a throat like a barrel.
Will they "plunk" i.e. chamber fully and drop out freely in your actual gun barrel?

I was once loading an oddball combination, I had the gunsmith ream a gauge with the same reamer used on the barrel. That ought not to be necessary here.

 

[drband]

That bullet shape will not pass the EGW gauge, it doesn't have a throat like a barrel.
Will they "plunk" i.e. chamber fully and drop out freely in your actual gun barrel?

I was once loading an oddball combination, I had the gunsmith ream a gauge with the same reamer used on the barrel. That ought not to be necessary here.

OAL “looks” really long. FWIW

 

[Jim Watson]

Numbers would be nice.
Even showing it beside a factory roundnose.

 

[Captain Quack]

2 More things to check. I'll be right back. Ok. That took longer than I thought. I said to heck with it and reset all the dies. I ran up a bunch of powderless rounds. Got the flair adjusted, so it will be easier for my Beloved Wife to put bullets in when she takes her turn pulling the level (I told her it will be good practice if we ever find a real "one arm bandit" with a lever). Got it to the 1.135 OAL as per the Spears manual. Pulled and reset the FCD. The first 2 out of the press went flush in the case gauge. YAY! I said to myself. And those were the last 2. More tweaking with OAL and FCD. They now almost go flush in the case gauge. Maybe half the rim above the edge. Disassembled my 9mm and did the plunk. 10 rds in. 10 rds came out with no problem. I'm thinking at this point it's lock everything down. If it plunks in and out well, it should be good to use, correct? I'll use up the last of my Unique powder and roll up 50 or so and off to a friend who's only 10 minutes away instead of 30 minutes to the range. He said I could use his backyard for testing. And one other thing. Blessings to whoever invented the collet bullet puller! I wouldn't be halfway through pulling all those test bullets with a kinetic puller.
Thank you all again. It's been a very educational journey for me, and I hope others have gotten something out of it as well.

Captain Quack.

 

[ballman6711]

OAL “looks” really long. FWIW

I agree. If that is a 100% completed round, it needs to be shorter. Be sure to lower the charge if you shorten the OAL since pressure will increase.

chris

 

[Jim Watson]

Got it to the 1.135 OAL as per the Spears manual.

That is a suitable OAL, I am loading Brand B to 1.142" and Brand G to 1.136" (because that is what they come out at without changing the die setting) and they gauge, plunk, and feed. But don't think that Another Brand will always load just like a Speer.

 

[drband]

I agree. If that is a 100% completed round, it needs to be shorter. Be sure to lower the charge if you shorten the OAL since pressure will increase.

chris

That is a suitable OAL, I am loading Brand B to 1.142" and Brand G to 1.136" (because that is what they come out at without changing the die setting) and they gauge, plunk, and feed. But don't think that Another Brand will always load just like a Speer.

Not to throw out either of the above responses or my own…

The keys are: do the rounds fit in the mag, do they plunk in the barrel chamber and fall out freely, does the mag/gun combo function without ammo related failures?

Sounds like you are getting close. Hope you solve the issues.

 

[NMexJim]

OAL “looks” really long. FWIW

Totally agree. I doubt that length will fly at all. I don't think you have a full-caliber of bullet seated in the case. I went on RMR's site and looked for loading length info but couldn't find any. Maybe some of our folks will have some data on that bullet. I don't.

FMJ ammo is not all the same. SAAMI does not specify how a bullet profile will be made - that's left up to the manufacturer. You really can't trust that an FMJ by one manufacturer will have the same profile - bullet shank length and ogive - as the next. I must have used 20 different FMJ profiles over the years.

The first problem you have to solve is the high cases. If you're using the Lee directions to set your dies correctly, I can't imagine what the issue is. When I'm having problems like that, I tear down everything and start over. Read the markings on the dies and all of that good stuff. Clean them. Check the press for play, pins in right all the way, all that. Put it all back together again with the die instruction right in front of you. Check the case length. Surely they are not too long, but one never knows.

The next issue to solve is COAL. If you've got a properly sized case, then you need to keep testing length until you get a cartridge that will fit your gun. I suggest that you use a non-primed case without powder and test your COAL until you get a good fit. Save that blank cartridge along with all the info - bullet maker, all that.

If all else fails, find a reloader in your area to give you a hand. Two heads are nearly always better than one.