sizing die problem.

[Captain Quack]

I use a separate 5 hole head for each caliber. I have one head that only has the .30 bullet pulling set. A .38/.357 decaping and sizing die and 9 mm decaping and sizing die. I like to decap and then hand prime. I haven't tried it with a full set of dies. I think I'll try that next as soon as the new Powder Through die comes in (Don't ask. Just... Don't) I haven spent a bit of time fiddling with the center axis bolt. I had it loosened off to lube some things and had a bit of trouble getting it back on properly, but after a sleepless night the .38/.357 is working perfectly so I'm still confused. I'll check the measurements on commercial brass against the sized brass.
Captain Quack.

 

[Walkalong]

Take a known good and a known bad case and check them each in all 5 holes.

 

[Captain Quack]

I'll try that Walkalong. Quick question. Does it matter at all that I am doing these checks with just the case? No primer. No Powder. No bullet. Or should I make up some dummy bullets. Primed. Bullet but no powder and try them. Could that make a difference?
Captain Quack.

 

[Walkalong]

For me, checking the sized cases has been enough, but one can load a bullet crooked and have it not gauge, or have a too fat bullet and it not gauge, etc.

The folks who play the pistol games gauge loaded rounds.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The folks who play the pistol games gauge loaded rounds.

Yep and those people use hundo.

 

[Captain Quack]

I managed to resolve 2 die problems today. Salvaged my 9mm through powder die that was locked into a powder die with a dremel and vice grips. 3 cheers and a tiger for me! And I got a trashed decap die pin collet on a trashed sizing/decap die someone gave me loose after a week of kroil and wrenches. But what is "hundo"? The only comps I've ever done were cowboy action.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

It's a case gauge.
https://benstoegerproshop.com/reloading/case-gauges/

 

[film495]

if they are fired cases, the ding from the extractor on the rim can do that and make them sit up in the gauge sometimes. a piece of sandpaper can fix burr on the rim pretty quick.

 

[chamokaneman]

I get that in my Wilson case gauge too. Maybe 5-10% will sit high a little. Trying to figure it out...I've checked right after sizing and managed to get some to pass by squeezing them through a 9mm Makarov FCD but not all. They all plunk just fine in my two barrels so I kind of just chalk it up to the differences in range brass or idk. I'd probably skip it altogether but once or twice I've detected brass with slit necks or other cracks I failed to notice.

 

[lordpaxman]

Maybe I should just give up or mortgage the house and buy a Dillon.

That could be one course of action, but I can tell you from experience a Dillon will crank out nice ammo but every now and then a loaded 9mm won’t gauge in my Hundo/Shockbottle gauge.
You didn’t say what your were loading, but in my case it’s range brass with 147gr Blue Bullets FN. Typically it’s the CBC brass that stands proud to some degree but they will chamber. I could try at some point to see if just the re-sized CBC brass passes the gauge, and then go from there, but I set these aside for live fire practice.
It may be the brass, it may be the large long bullet and seating pressure, but I just live with it.

Methinks I am seeing where I may have wasted some money on the gauge then.

There’s probably nothing wrong with the gauge. If a specific hole always showed a high round, then perhaps it wasn’t cut right but if it gauges factory fine, then I’d accept it as good. With the modern machine methods and tooling I trust my Hundo 100 round gauge. My main reason for it is culling .380s. EGW makes quality items, they probably have QC checks on both the tooling and the product.

 

[jmorris]

I just can NOT get the Lee full length sizing/decap die to be consistent against a 9mm case checker. 2 or 3 will be flush. 2 or 3 will be a bit high.

I would check to see if it’s the rim, that is the issue.

I tried it all from turn down until it just touches the plate and then tightens the ring to give it one quarter turn after it touches the plate to give it a half turn after it touches the plate and tighten down. Tossing out brass that doesn't fit fresh off the press wouldn't be economical because that would be maybe 1/3 to a half. I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps I just got a bad carbide sizing die and should buy a new one.

Unless you can crank your size die to below the shell holder, you can’t fix the rim with it, obviously that part is still in the shell plate to pull the case back out of the die, so it can’t be sized. Run a case all the way up into the size die, the part you can still see isn’t being sized.



So, the first thing I would check is if the rim base are In spec. I do not do this with my aluminum EGW case gauges but use my stainless steel ones.

If the round doesn’t drop in and out of the gauge, put it in backwards and give it a twist.



If it’s good now, that was your problem.

Plunking won’t do you any good because it would be abnormal for the rim to contact any portion of the barrel.



So what you wind up with are mystery malfunctions because they all plunked fine but the problem finally showed up when it comes in contact with something that will stop it, like the breechface/extractor.



There are machines out there for sizing the portion of the case the normal process doesn’t touch. Roll sizers can even get into the extractor groove.



or you can push them through a die that will ensure that at least the OD is good at the base.

 

[buck460XVR]

I think from my experience with RCBS dies the instructions to adjust are different for carbide dies. They want those touching the shell holder. With std dies I think they want you to back the die out 1/2 turn.

Iffin' I remember correctly, it's just the opposite. The reasoning is you do not want to crack the carbide ring inside the die with pressure from the shell holder. Steel dies do not have this issue. I wonder if the issue for the OP is not slop in the press itself and is causing the inconsistent sizing. If it was just a poorly adjusted die, it should still be consistent.

 

[Blue68f100]

Older carbide dies had the carbide ring setting flush or a few 1/1000's low. All of the newer production dies have the carbide ring recessed so it can not touch the shell plate. this allows you to set the die down to the shell holder/plate without damaging the carbide ring.

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

If this were purely a die issue there would be a consistent sizing problem, they would all be bad or "off" in the same way, not the wildly inconsistent sizing that is evident by the brass in the block or the holes in the testing block are defective and not drilled indentically. If I am following things correctly (I have only had 1 coffee so far this morning) you are doing a plunk test with just the brass? I have never heard of doing that. I have only done that with fully loaded rounds. Something is out of adjustment on the press or there is some operator error being introduced into the process here. That is not meant as an insult, but rather as an avenue that should be analyzed to solve OP's issue.

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

It appears you are checking sized brass in an ammo checker. Your brass, as other posters have suggested, may have burrs that prevent it from smoothly sliding into the checker block. I have never used a checker block. I have only done a plunk test with loaded ammo in my pistol's barrel.

 

[Walkalong]

If this were purely a die issue there would be a consistent sizing problem, they would all be bad or "off" in the same way, not the wildly inconsistent sizing that is evident by the brass in the block or the holes

Not necessarily, there is no telling what pressure some of the cases were subjected to. Some ate simply resisting sizing more than the others, for whatever reason.

That said, I usually lose 10/15% of range brass due to this, so there is something else going on as well.

 

[GW Staar]

Not necessarily, there is no telling what pressure some of the cases were subjected to. Some ate simply resisting sizing more than the others, for whatever reason.

That said, I usually lose 10/15% of range brass due to this, so there is something else going on as well.

That's been my experience too. Age of brass and brand makes a difference too. I had some very old 7.62 rifle brass that came from Viet Nam days that was so hard I had to size it four times before the sized dimensions would stay put in spec and not spring back.....using the same sizers and sizing procedure each time. Don't know for sure if it made a difference, but I started rotating the brass a quarter turn in the shell holder on each of the four resizings. Others plopped into the case gauge the first time....others took all four. (but of course that problem was not at the base)

That said I've never experienced that in 9mm or any pistol.....but then I've never collected military or any other 9mm brass that old either. Annealing is not an option either.... you can't anneal the bases and not ruin it. I've never had a roll sizer.....but I'd probably get one if I had such a problem....if they work on tapered brass. I assume they do with the right parts.

Jmorris, what brand is that roll sizer pictured?

 

[Captain Quack]

It is a pretty mixed batch of brass. I did buy a bunch of new 9mm when a shipment came through the local (and only) store that carries reloading here in town. JMorris. I am going to go over what you pasted with a fine tooth comb and see what all applies and try things out. New sizing/decap die arrives Thursday.
Captain Quack.

 

[Captain Quack]

I just went over the last batch of brass I did pre stripdown and clean. Out of about 500 I had 3 that didn't sit flush in the case checker. And 5 .380 cases. Methinks it is obvious that the problem is between the lever puller and die. If I'm feeling better later in the day, I will take another shot at adjusting the die and press. I'm not convinced it's not an issue with something I did or did not do putting the press back together so that is something to look at as well. I really do appreciate all the help and information you guys have shared.
Captain Quack.

 

[Captain Quack]

Stupid question. How do you tell what size a sizing die is when it doesn't actually say on the die? I was talking to a friend and mentioned this problem, and he gave me an old beat up steel 9 mm seating die. Screwed it in. tighten. Every single case of the 270 except one went flush in the case checker. I looked at the die I had been using and no where does it say what caliber. Just Lee and Decapping die and their time code. I'm wondering if it's actually a .38/.357 die and I mixed them up?
Captain Quack.

 

[Walkalong]

Good question, but a steel sizer will generally size farther down the case than a carbide die.

My Lee carbide 9MM sizer is marked."Lee 9MM D5".

 

[R44 flyer]

Stupid question. How do you tell what size a sizing die is when it doesn't actually say on the die? I was talking to a friend and mentioned this problem, and he gave me an old beat up steel 9 mm seating die. Screwed it in. tighten. Every single case of the 270 except one went flush in the case checker. I looked at the die I had been using and no where does it say what caliber. Just Lee and Decapping die and their time code. I'm wondering if it's actually a .38/.357 die and I mixed them up?
Captain Quack.

If it says Lee Decapping it is a decapping die and not a sizing die. A sizing die would say Lee 9mm and a code. Use a 9mm sizing die and your troubles will go away.

 

[Captain Quack]

Decapping only? I think that explains a few things. like, the whole problem. Thank you very much, R44 flyer. That solves the problem. I must have had a 9 mm sizer die somewhere that was working before. That will teach me to organize things better when I do this next time. I have to find it or order a new carbide one. I hate dealing with case lube. Again. Thank you all for all the help and advice guys. I have learned a few new things from all of this.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have to find it or order a new carbide one.

If you have to order one anyway, you might as well order the "Undersized" one...you'll thank me later

 

[Walkalong]

If it says Lee Decapping it is a decapping die and not a sizing die. A sizing die would say Lee 9mm and a code. Use a 9mm sizing die and your troubles will go away.

Yep, missed that…….pics of it?