SKS just as good as an AK 47?

[AK103K]

Unless involved in a military operation, who needs a quick mag change in a non-LEO civilian scenario?

You never need it till you need it, and if youre not practiced for it, well..... never mind.

Too much heat damages the gun's bore. No thank you.

Ive got a couple SMG's with about 25 years of steady use, and hundreds of thousands of rounds through them, much of that being of being "shot hot", that might dispute that.

 

[barnbwt]

Yeah, yeah, the grabbers hate the AK slightly more than they hate the SKS. I can't even tell who's being facetious, sarcastic, or serious about their reasons for owning either at this point :banghead:

You know, in free states, you don't have to care what they think about your guns, and grabbers hate both in any case

Has anyone mentioned the Norinco Type 53, yet (folding stock SKS that takes AK mags?)

TCB

AK103K, SMGs don't subject the barrel to quite as much damage as rifle calibers on full-auto. Granted, the 7.62x39 is fairly slow/low pressure so it probably isn't as bad as 223 or 308. Luckily SMGs are even more fun, though

 

[Swampman]

To mljdeckard

My sincere apologies Sir.
I honestly did read back through the thread several times and it appeared that you had ignored Inebriated's question.
I saw your post, made just a few moments after my own and didn't realize that it WAS a valid response to Inebriated and instead read it as political commentary on my post.

I truly was an ass and I hope that you will accept my heartfelt apologies.

In any case, I once spent 125 dollars getting a custom suppressor mount made for my $89.00, 59/66 Yugo, so ounce for ounce, I'm probably a worse "SKS Spendthrift" than you are.

On the bright side my faux pas did remind me of one area in which the SKS is far superior to an AK, at least in my experience. It's a quieter and far less smoky suppressor host and with a little judicious spring clipping and polishing, along with a LOT of load development, it can even cycle heavy cast subsonic rounds with decent reliability and accuracy.
Sort of a "poor man's" .300 Blackout.

I couldn't get any of several AK's I worked with to even BEGIN to cycle subsonics. The only AK I found that was worthwhile to shoot subs through was my sons M70 Yugo. With the gas system shut off, it was pretty quiet with subs and didn't foul up too badly.

 

[mljdeckard]

It's all good man.

 

[MyRoad]

There is a huge spectrum of variation within both AK's and SKS's, and expectations and uses for the gun factor in to this argument. Since the OP mentions cost as a factor, we would have to compare similarly priced SKS's and AK's, at stock entry level out-of-the-box configurations.

I will admit that I have not read every page of this carefully, but the topic seems to have expanded to include the potential of each platform, so I'll just put in my $.02 (or $1k, as the case may be). Back before the crash, I had a good job and threw a lot of money at my favorite hobby. To that end, I had milled receiver Arsenal AK's all fixed up and upgraded in every imaginable way. I also had a few SKS's that I had professionally cut down, threaded, Duracoated, Choate scope mounts drilled and tapped, drop free bolt mod done, upgraded stocks and trigger groups...

The bottom line is that when the economy turned, I sold the AK's and held onto the SKS's. For me, the SKS platform was more versatile, more accurate, and more fun. I realize my contribution to this thread is taking a step away from the heart of the original question, but in response to the thread subject, for me the SKS is better than an AK. Now, if I were in an active war zone, my answer might be different... but I'm not, and I don't expect that I ever will be. So for any and every use I can actually imagine having for a rifle, I prefer the SKS -- and that would include in their bare-bones stripped configurations.

 

[Biohazard1993]

Unless involved in a military operation, who needs a quick mag change in a non-LEO civilian scenario?

Too much heat damages the gun's bore. No thank you.

I believe others have stated plainly that one reason they like their aks (or any other combat oriented rifle with many rounds) are because if they ever need to use it in a "military" type application, natural disaster, without law, ect they have it. I understand how some do not care for that purpose and they have the right not to, but im with those that want them and they have that right as well. I usually do not like stating my opinion about the structure of our country but with the obvious rate that we are going we (the people) might need to use them like that. Also not only is it a good idea to have one (or many) but as others have stated it is our responsibilty to have arms like that as citizens in our country, even though it is looked down upon now. But as I have stated everyone has the right to their own arsenal or lack thereof and I respect that.

 

[Cee Zee]

I completely understand the concern with heat affecting the bore on these rifles. I've had my SKS smoking hot. I mean there was smoke rolling off the stock where it contacted the barrel. They do get very hot.

For this reason I don't see a lot of option for using multiple mags though an AK in battle. Sure you would do it if you had to but I doubt the rifle would stand up to a lot of that kind of treatment.

People I've talked to that were in actual wars told me that they never had to fire a whold bunch of shells at once. I've heard some say that 5 - 10 rounds was a lot to fire in a battle. I'm not as familiar with more modern battles though. I'm sure there are people with far, far more knowledge on the subject than I have.

 

[AK103K]

Sure you would do it if you had to but I doubt the rifle would stand up to a lot of that kind of treatment.

They are a little more robust than you give them credit for.

Back in the 80's and 90's, when ammo was cheap (and the guns too for that matter) , we would shoot multiple "cases" through full auto AK's, M16's, G3's, M14's and a few others in a single day, and did that at least once a month for years, and many of those same guns are still being shot to this day, although not as regularly.

I still have a Colt SP1 I bought new back in 74, that has had multiple cases at an outing through it numerous times as well, at least three or four times a year into the early 2000's, and much of that was as fast as people could empty the mags, and its still in great shape and going strong to this day.

I think you'll find they hold up better than the shooters do over the years.

 

[goon]

They are a little more robust than you give them credit for.

Back in the 80's and 90's, when ammo was cheap (and the guns too for that matter) , we would shoot multiple "cases" through full auto AK's, M16's, G3's, M14's and a few others in a single day, and did that at least once a month for years, and many of those same guns are still being shot to this day, although not as regularly.

I've read speculation that the AK was designed primarily with semi-auto fire in mind. Evidence for this was that through the transition from AK-47 to AKM to AK-74, at no point did the Soviets install heavier handguards to prevent overheating. The other thought was that the AK's semi position is with the safety clear at the bottom and the gross motor skills you'd experience in a firefight would make you more likely to slide it all the way down rather than stopping at the FA position.

But that's a whole other debate I guess.

 

[barnbwt]

The barrel not holding up to the heat has much more to do with accuracy than the gun breaking. Faster cycles of the bolt don't stress the action more, but getting the bore hot will erode it right quick. Luckily, the Soviets and others knew this, and chrome lined most of the milsurp bores so they could take much higher temperatures without blowing iron out the muzzle. The barrels used by US makers often do not have this consideration (but they also tend to be semiauto).

I don't have to worry about his on the VZ, either, since your hand will burst into flame long before the barrel can be damaged, making it a self-limiting problem (they really do get hot fast )

TCB

 

[Cee Zee]

The barrel not holding up to the heat has much more to do with accuracy than the gun breaking.

It was fairly common at one time for early full auto guns to melt barrels to the point where they would just droop. That hasn't happened in a long time that I know about. But you're right about the accuracy. You'll lose accuracy pretty quick if you go superheating your barrel. Heat is a big enemy of a barrel. If you're just spraying and praying you won't have to worry so much.

BTW most SKS models do not have chrome lined barrels of course. That's why we all worry about corrosive primers. Still I've had my Norinco hot enough to smoke the wood on the forward grip and it still shoots straight. But I wouldn't want to bet my life that it wouldn't cause problems. I've shot many thousands of rounds through my SKS and through my AK for that matter. I know they get hot and I know how long it takes to get them hot. After all I did have my stock actually smoking.

Besides all this the question becomes how many people do you take on with a single weapon no matter how many rounds you can feed it? If you have to change mags more than once there's a big chance you're in real trouble and what you really need is a bunch of help. There's always that chance we might have to go down fighting but I don't figure too many people want to do a charge on even a 10 round mag SKS. They will fire fast and you can aim them accurately enough to make someone think twice about advancing on you. That person will either have to be trained extremely well or desperate or crazy on drugs or just crazy. The thing still is that you can only shoot so many people by yourself if it comes to that. Trust me if the gang bangers up the hill from my house didn't have the sense to avoid someone with a battle carbine that clearly practices shooting often then they aren't very smart at all. Not many are that stupid. I can't stop them from coming at me while I'm asleep or burning my house down but a daylight attack with enough numbers to overcome even a modest battle carbine like the SKS is going to be a rare thing. I've been putting on a regular show with that SKS for many years. They know I have something that shoots fast and sounds loud. That's been enough to keep them away so far. Some day it might not be. We'll see how effective I am with my SKS at that time. Remember my Norinco does have detachable mags that work very well. I figure a 15 round mag and another 30 will settle things one way or the other. But again I'm sure they know I can hit what I shoot at and that's enough along with them knowing about my battle carbine to keep the peace IMO. Actually I've moved away from that place now anyway but I still own the house and plan to move back in a few years if I make it that long.

So IMO an SKS can be a big detriment to a gang assault. My place is going to be hard to rush without me knowing about it too. I have a great defensive layout in fact. I also have a great watch dog that won't get close to anyone, is too fast to catch and won't eat anything unless I tell him it's ok. He chased off two bears one day after they killed a cat. It won't be easy to get past him without him letting me know they're around.

 

[fiddleharp]

Bears?! Gang-Bangers?!
You certainly live in an interesting neighborhood.
While I have no way of predicting such things, I doubt we'll be facing any "bonsai charges" in American neighborhoods in the event of a SHTF scenario. We're not talking about Imperial Japanese troops here, or even the NVA.
I think it's safe to say that whatever rabble is giving you trouble will scatter like quail the moment you fire into their midst.
Even today's urban gang-bangers, who we must admit actually have more "combat" experience than most of us here, tend to let loose a single volley and leave the scene with screeching tires rather than fight to the last man.
Personally, I believe any firearm, if wielded by a determined defender willing to shoot to kill, will be adequate in some future SHTF scenario involving lawless mobs.

 

[PabloJ]

In S/A mode for civilian use ABSOLUTELY.

 

[jrdolall]

Talk about a dead horse.....

 

[SilentScream]

I've read speculation that the AK was designed primarily with semi-auto fire in mind. Evidence for this was that through the transition from AK-47 to AKM to AK-74, at no point did the Soviets install heavier handguards to prevent overheating. The other thought was that the AK's semi position is with the safety clear at the bottom and the gross motor skills you'd experience in a firefight would make you more likely to slide it all the way down rather than stopping at the FA position.
But that's a whole other debate I guess.

Nope! And for good reason, the Russians new the value of massed full auto fire(So did everyone else at that point in history well except the powers that be in the U.S. of course) They had noted how successful the PPSH & PPS43 sub-guns had been in various engagements; the weak link being 50 to 100 meter effective range. Then add to that the effect the STG44 had on the Ruskies they knew a good weapon/idea when they saw it. As I said before, pretty much everyone except the U.S. had realized that he who puts out the most fire generally wins. The days of massed rifleman firing carefully aimed shots @ 300+ yards was over by the 1860's it just took the U.S. until the 1960's to see it. Everyone else was pretty much on board by the 1920's unfortunately development took a little longer.

 

[Cee Zee]

I think it's safe to say that whatever rabble is giving you trouble will scatter like quail the moment you fire into their midst.

Exactly. They don't want me shot bad enough to risk getting shot themselves and they know there's a good chance of that. And any drive by attempts would be almost comical because of the terrain where I live. They would have to sit still and hope I was standing in the exact right spot in my house. And they would have to hope I didn't have my SKS handy.

Truth is that they know it wouldn't be easy to come after me. Yes one got close behind my house and shot 3 times. I caught him too. That scared the bejesus out of him. He threatened to kill me about 20 times and then took off as fast as he could go. I haven't heard any more from him since. It didn't hurt that I stand about a foot taller than him and outweigh him at least 100 lbs.. And since I've made a habit of letting the police know who it is that likes to harass me he couldn't get away with shooting me and he has to know that. Besides I don't think he could have turned that shotgun around inside his little truck before I could go through his window after him. I caught him on my ATV BTW and I got him stopped. Stupid drug bozos.

As for the bears there are lots of those critters around anymore. They are spreading like deer did a few decades ago. It's amazing how many just showed up. It didn't hurt that the state turned 500 of them loose in a state park about a mile from my farm. But my house is like 15 miles from there but that isn't far for bear actually. I've seen bear on the farm and at my house lots of times. I first noticed them when I saw their tracks where they had come into the yard and ate my dog's food. That wasn't more than 20 feet from my house. From then on I have seen tons of signs and lots of bears too. Here's a story about bears returning to my area but there aren't nearly as many in the area that story was written. I live in a place almost surrounded by a huge national forest and it's wild country.

http://www.hockinghills.com/featstory/bears.html

 

[lobo9er]

The AK is a superior WEAPON

Depends on the AK. I'd say the avg SKS is better than the majority of the AK's sold at gun shows. I wouldn't trade a Yugo sks for a Romanian AK. But I'd trade for an Arsenal.

 

[fteter]

Gosh, this is a hot topic, isn't it? Seems like we have some "passionate" opinions on this subject. So, I'll throw in my own two cents here:

The SKS and AK are two very different rifle designs, both have strong and weak points.

The SKS has a comparatively simple design and it's easy to use. It's possible to get an untrained shooter up to speed on running an SKS in a pretty short period of time. It's also built to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. It's also a great value for the price, even in this inflated market.

The AK is also rugged and durable. Fill it with sand...drag it through the mud...soak it in lard...kick it across a football field...whatever, it'll still work. And you're definitely able to sustain a higher rate of fire for a longer period of time than you can with an SKS (sorry, but stripper clips v detachable mags for someone trained on each - no contest). But you can't just put an AK into the hands of a newbie and expect them to pick it up in a short period of time. The design is a bit more complex than that of the SKS. It takes some practice to run an AK efficiently. And an AK is a bit more expensive than an SKS.

If my life depended on it in an armed conflict, and if I were practicing regularly with both, I'd rather be holding an AK than an SKS. Less reloading. Quicker reloading. Big factors in an armed conflict, IMHO. But I'm not planning on engaging in an armed conflict anytime soon (not to be confused with basic home defense...got a semi-auto shotgun for that).

If I'm just shooting paper or targets, I have to admit I like shooting the SKS more than an AK. It's easier for me to operate, so I spend more time focusing on my own technique and accuracy rather than the actual operation of the rifle. That's why I sold my AK and kept my SKS when faced with the choice (although I admit that I'm watching the AK-74 market closely...like that little rifle).

Speaking of accuracy, I'd take my Mosin Nagant M44 over either the SKS or the AK for shots over 150 yards...that oughta get the flames roaring here

 

[AK103K]

I think it's safe to say that whatever rabble is giving you trouble will scatter like quail the moment you fire into their midst.

Thats a definite "maybe". Might could/might not. You would be foolish to assume, or plan for, anything but the latter.

With violent home invasions on the rise, and most of those being done by multiple actors, some of which seem pretty determined, I think youre only fooling yourself that just having a gun, will have them quaking in their boots, and scampering off at the sight of you.

Thats also assuming you even have it handy and ready, and have warning trouble is about.

We live in a very rural area, with no real police protection other than a roving State Trooper, who, unless they happen to be right here, "might" get here in a half hour or so, if youre able to get the call out. We only just got a 911 address and 911 service about 5 years back, and that is only on the land line, there is no cell service here until you get down to the highway about a mile or so away. Our closest neighbor is about 500 yards away, and most keep to themselves. Shooting, day or night isnt unusual here, so theres no guarantee that would generate a call from others either.

Anything bad happening here, and youre pretty much on your own for a good long while, until help might arrive. If you dont have a plan in place for anything remotely bad, things probably arent going to go well. What you have handy, better be easily accessed, ready, or easily and quickly made ready, and youd better be well practiced with everything about it.

More than likely, the handgun you "always" wear, is going to be the weapon you have when things go south, and if youre lucky you might get to something better, and youve planned ahead.

As for the bears there are lots of those critters around anymore.

What kind of bears are we talking of? Brown, black, grizzly?

We have black bears all over around here, and most of the time, like snakes, the fear of them harming you is really more in your head, than it is a reality. Having worked in the woods a good portion of my life, and having quite a few encounters with them, they were usually going the other way once they knew we were there. Its pretty funny how freaked out people get, over bears, snakes, and ticks. All you have to do is plant that seed, and then watch the fun.

I wouldn't trade a Yugo sks for a Romanian AK. But I'd trade for an Arsenal.

Id probably do just the opposite.

My experience with US assembled AK's (albeit, early on) has not been good, and the lowly Romanians Ive owned and shot, while not as refined, have always been good, reliable, and accurate shooters.

The only way Id take one of the US made guns, is if I could shoot it first, which isnt likely, unless youre buying used from a buddy.

 

[futurerider103]

I like my SKS way better than my buddies AK. Today I was shooting on a 12x14 steel target at 550yds iron sights. I just don't see the AK doing that.

 

[goon]

But you can't just put an AK into the hands of a newbie and expect them to pick it up in a short period of time. The design is a bit more complex than that of the SKS. It takes some practice to run an AK efficiently. And an AK is a bit more expensive than an SKS.

Tens or hundreds of thousands of teenagers in the world's less developed nations may disagree with you on that.

Personally, I find the AK easier to strip for cleaning and about the same as the SKS in actual use.

 

[CWL]

Tens or hundreds of thousands of teenagers in the world's less developed nations may disagree with you on that.

Personally, I find the AK easier to strip for cleaning and about the same as the SKS in actual use.

I think the proper figure would be "tens of millions" since there have been ~100 million AK-family weapons manufactured so far.

 

[Cee Zee]

We have black bears all over around here, and most of the time, like snakes, the fear of them harming you is really more in your head, than it is a reality.

You mean shooting all those bears was just a waste of ammo? I was trying to carpet my house with bear rugs! Dang. Now what do I do?

Oh yeah. Don't forget to breathe in "and' out. Yeah it's obvious for most of us but...

Oh I forgot. Bear attacks are greatly increasing all through the east. Guess it was ok to shoot all 50 of those bears I shot. Or was it zero. Yeah that's it. Zero.

But just so you know fatal black bear attacks have increased substantially in the last 3 decades. Bears have always lived near my house. There's a den cave not more than 3 miles from my house where the DNR found several bears hibernating and that was before the big increase. I think they found 9 bears there including newborn cubs. A bear was killed on the highway not more than 3 miles from my house in 1999. And that was before the big increase in numbers. Surveys claim that there are triple the number of bears in the state from what there were in 1993. That was an AP story so forget trying to blame it on sensationalism.

I don't live in fear of those bears. In fact I like having them around. They don't scare me. But I do take precautions. If you had seen the area where they were bedding down at the upper corner of my property a few years ago you'd know why. There's a "lot" of them around. The bulk of that increase in bears in Ohio has taken place in my region. When Kentucky turned loose 500 bears one summer in the mid-90's I started seeing lots of signs and a few bears. Now it's lots of bears. Yet I haven't had to shoot even one. Imagine that!

 

[barnbwt]

Granted, not many of those teenagers were given the choice between the AK and an anything. A good 3/4 of the AK's popularity was a direct result of the Soviet's self-destructive overproduction and their desire to destabilize strategic areas to their advantage. If we'd made a few more butt-loads of M3 Grease Guns and given those to everybody, it would probably have had the same ubiquity and mystique, but instead we dumped them in the ocean, or something (I have no idea why there are no parts kits after all that were made. ) From the end-user perspective, the ability of a nation-state to crank out copies of your gun ranks pretty low on the list of features, but stacks the odds in your favor of being popular

TCB

 

[benEzra]

For this reason I don't see a lot of option for using multiple mags though an AK in battle. Sure you would do it if you had to but I doubt the rifle would stand up to a lot of that kind of treatment.

A chrome lined AK can certainly shoot "multiple mags" semiauto without any bore damage whatsoever.

And having the ability to quickly switch to a reserve magazine without tying up the weapon is a good thing in a civilian defensive carbine, IMO.