SKS just as good as an AK 47?

[Ignition Override]

AK103K: You made some excellent points, and I'm glad that most of those Century guns seem to have satisfied customers.

The lack of the BHO feature on an AK was never important to me, but the fact that the SKS has it is an attractive feature.
If the lower-priced AKs in early '08 had cost almost exactly what most flavors of SKS cost, I might have bought one. My "gun bug" infection was well into middle-age.

If a reliable AK-74 could Now be bought for the same price and in the same condition as a given SKS, the present surplus 5.45x39 ammo prices alone would be the incentive. I never would have bought the second Yugo M59 SKS. People would only need to clean the 74's bolt face, chamber, bore, gas tube components each time with a water-based liquid.

 

[Inebriated]

^Some mags with BHO followers would fix the BHO "issue."

 

[RIATAC45]

I have a Yugo M59/66 sks, and a deconverted Saiga AK. I was given the sks as a birthday gift from dear old Dad. I liked the round so much I bought the Saiga and did the restoration. Both will ring a 6"x6" steel at 200 yds with boring regularity, how much better accuracy does one need? I actually shoot my sks in our gun club milsurp match and placed 5th out of 15 shooters. That in itself doesn't sound too bad, but considering everyone else was using, Garands, Endfields, 03A3s, and Mausers, I think it shoots pretty good.

Buy both an be happy!

 

[fteter]

"Tens or hundreds of thousands of teenagers in the world's less developed nations may disagree with you on that."

Probably, goon. Point well taken. But the key word in my original statement was "efficiently".

 

[lobo9er]

"Tens or hundreds of thousands of teenagers in the world's less developed nations may disagree with you on that."

I hate the argument about AK's and third world countries using them. Yes they are in use but I doubt the majority of those that you see strapped to poor souls without shoes or what not that appear on the news would meet most of the members expectations here that belong to this forum. In my opinion.

*Disclaimer - I am not an AK hater I am exact opposite. It works both ways of course but to say "any AK is better than any SKS" is hog wash.

 

[AK103K]

Some mags with BHO followers would fix the BHO "issue."

I think they actually make it worse.

They do hold the bolt back on an empty mag, until you remove the mag, which has to be done by hand, as they wont fall free on their own, and when removed, the bolt slams forward again, requiring you to still work the charging handle when youre done with the reload anyway.

Lack of a BHO really isnt a big deal, if youre familiar with the gun. When it stops going bang when you pull the trigger, its empty, and you reload. You just "always" work the bolt after each mag change.

At least with the guns that dont have them, you know for sure the gun is loaded after you do change out a mag, as it SOP to work the charging handle when youre done, empty mag or not.

Ive had AR's drop a bolt on an empty mag on more than one occasion, and that tends to screw with you, as it messes with your head, and you try to solve why the gun stopped shooting.

If I do a tactical reload with an AR, I usually go ahead and stroke the charging handle anyway, just so I know for sure its loaded.

 

[benEzra]

The lack of the BHO feature on an AK was never important to me, but the fact that the SKS has it is an attractive feature.

The SKS *requires* a BHO because the SKS can only be reloaded with the bolt open. Meaning that without a BHO, an SKS would require three hands to reload (one to hold the rifle, one to hold the bolt back, and one to insert the stripper clip). If I am not mistaken, removing the stripper clip does *not* drop the bolt on an SKS, so you still have to tug the charging handle just like you would on an AK.

Since an AK can be reloaded under a closed bolt, with or without a round in the chamber, a BHO is not necessary for an AK.

Having said that, a BHO + bolt release (as on an AR) does gain you a little in reloading because it is a little faster to hit the bolt release than it is to run the charging handle. But a BHO without a bolt release doesn't serve much purpose beyond "hey, the rifle is empty" or for administrative handling.

^Some mags with BHO followers would fix the BHO "issue."

I have not really seen the value of these for AK's, because the bolt drops when you remove the magazine, unless you want a BHO for notification or administrative purposes.

 

[theotherwaldo]

<Brainglitch>
-You say "BHO".
-I hear "Barack Hussein Obama".
-This is not what I want in any firearm.
</Brainglitch>

 

[AK103K]

The gun and ammo industries have to love BHO. He's been their best salesman by far.

 

[silicosys4]

Bolt hold open mags for the ak are a pita to use.
They are harder to remove because they drag on the bolt.

 

[Biohazard1993]

Bears?! Gang-Bangers?!
You certainly live in an interesting neighborhood.
While I have no way of predicting such things, I doubt we'll be facing any "bonsai charges" in American neighborhoods in the event of a SHTF scenario. We're not talking about Imperial Japanese troops here, or even the NVA.
I think it's safe to say that whatever rabble is giving you trouble will scatter like quail the moment you fire into their midst.
Even today's urban gang-bangers, who we must admit actually have more "combat" experience than most of us here, tend to let loose a single volley and leave the scene with screeching tires rather than fight to the last man.
Personally, I believe any firearm, if wielded by a determined defender willing to shoot to kill, will be adequate in some future SHTF scenario involving lawless mobs.

I agree with you on not being able to predict what is going to happen in a "shtf" scenario however... the fact remains that gangs, at least inner city have a great deal more members than brain cells (if they were stupid enough to try the first time, a second is very plausable especially when they can go back and tell) and if it is a true "shtf" situation and some group does try "drive bying" (or other such foolishness) my family I want to make sure each and every one of them does not get the chance to harm me or anyone else again. I know a few well placed shots are always best but in high stress situations with moving targets (who knows how many with a bunch of desperate animals) I personaly like more than ten rounds on tap without the fuss of reloading (ak or sks with mags). But for normal home defense 10 rounds or less is alright by my book *as I look at my sp101*.

 

[goon]

Amazing that a pretty simple question about two old Russkie rifles turned into such a lengthy discussion! lol

 

[Cee Zee]

personaly like more than ten rounds on tap without the fuss of reloading (ak or sks with mags)

That's the reason I converted my Norinco to take detachables. I have 30 round mags for it and yes they work perfectly. And there can't be any moving drive by shootings at my house. There's only one spot on the road where you can shoot at my house.

I have thought about this stuff a lot. And they didn't really try anything except try to scare me by shooting behind my house. It was actually a huge mistake on their part because now I have a police report filed with their name on it where they tried to intimidate me by trespassing on my neighbor's place (which I was asked to watch for him) so they know the first place the LEO's would look would be at that guy. Yes they have the LEO's paid off but I have a few political aces up my sleeve. I know what's going on. I have plans and contingency plans. And again, I don't even live there now and won't be living there for several more years. I'm sure tensions will have died down by then. My point was that there are scenarios where a battle carbine can be a major asset. This thread is getting too long to go back and find what I was responding to though. But I was responding to someone saying there wasn't much point for an SKS except for fun but I'm not going to go looking for that post.

 

[krupparms]

I live in an area that has almost no L.E. protection. We have problems with meth, large scale pot grows by drug cartels & M.C. gangs. Alot of people not only keep a S.G. around, but an SKS is standard now also! The SKS has become one of the most popular H.D.guns for people living out in the sticks. It is also a great rifle for fokes living & trying to make a living on gold claims. It has stopped a number of tweaker incidents at the lakes where parties got wild &out of hand. Some say 10 rds isn't enough! But reloading from striper clips or duckbill mags are not that slow if practiced. And if there is more than one person, then it is possible to lay down plenty of fire power. From the number of aid packages that included thousands of SKS rifles, the SKS will be front line issue in a number of 3rd.world countrys for years . And it has proven to be a fine combat rifle. Bottem line . I don't think it's better than a AK, but I do think it would work for what you will need it for. I spoke to a farmer in a 3rd.world country he had all kinds of guerrilla groups & dangerous animals around he had been useing his SKS for over 30 years to keep his & his family safe & fed! He had nothing but good to say about his SKS! : I would add that the duckbill magazines work well especially if fitted to rifle & they work with stripper clips. My son used the U.S.A.mags and stripper clips. He could reload a 30 rd. magazine with 10 rds.& keep going until he could change the magazine. He got very good and has keep the SKS even though he had a AK & has a AR15. He also believes it to be fine for S.D. . Kick back & enjoy it! It is a great little rifle IMO.

 

[Cee Zee]

I live in an area that has almost no L.E. protection. We have problems with meth, large scale pot grows by drug cartels & M.C. gangs.

You must live on the same road I do. I lived there for a full 10 years before I ever saw the first LEO on that road. Then I saw them about every 2 or 3 years and it finally got up to 2 or 3 per year. I found a spot where meth cooks had operated a mobile setup after a big write up in the paper about a new cleanup system the county had bought. They still have never gone to that location and it's been 5 years. I know there are dangerous chemicals there. I guess they don't care.

Like you said we have to be our own protection. If I called the LEO's they wouldn't show up for hours. I guess they did put one on duty in a town not too far away but it's only one shift a day. Guns are our only protection. I wish the gun grabbers would come and live in my neighborhood with violent oxycontin dealers protecting their turf and road signs marked with gang graffiti and pot crops everywhere they can be hidden and meth cooks driving the roads. Those people are making big money and they are going to protect that. If they see you as a straight arrow they see you as a threat. There's no way on earth I would live where I did without a gun. Actually I wouldn't live where I do now without a gun. Everyone who lives in these places has guns for protection. It would cost a fortune to hire enough LEO's to actually patrol this country on a regular basis. It's not like a city where you see 3 cop cars a minute. It's a whole different world. And that doesn't even cover the problems you might have with rabid animals, aggressive packs of dogs, dogs that are starved at home and dogs that think you're living on their turf. I've had all of those problems and more. Plus I'm not big on trying to feed the whole wildlife population. They will steal my dog's food in a heartbeat. He won't eat it all at once so he doesn't get to eat it all. I'm not particularly worried about the bears but they can be a problem. And we have bobcats, coyotes, and rutting deer (which can be a big problem).

I love living in the country and would never move back to the city. But that means I have to protect myself. The thing is the gun grabbers think we're all stealing the land that belongs to the critters. I wonder where they think their food comes from?

 

[goon]

Yeah, there are all kinds of low life people who find ways to make life harder for rural people. And the police response is always anemic... if you even get one. As much as I hate to be hard on cops, the truth is that even the best ones usually only get there after the damage has been done.

I'd definitely never want to be without a good rifle. A reliable SKS fits that description.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by Cee Zee

BTW most SKS models do not have chrome lined barrels

To the best of my knowledge, all SKS's except for the Yugo's and some of the very earliest Russians, have been equipped with chrome lined bores. Even the el-cheapo Norincos manufactured purely for commercial sale.

 

[Cee Zee]

You're right Swampman. My brain must have been on vacation when I posted that. I was thinking of the Yugos and the debate about their quality I guess. I knew there was a common debate about chrome lined barrels and the SKS. The Yugos lacked it because they didn't have a source of chromium they could access on their own without importing it.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

The Yugos lacked it because they didn't have a source of chromium they could access on their own without importing it.

This is an Internet myth that somehow gained traction and keeps getting repeated. Pre-breakup Yugoslavia actually had large deposits of chromium/chromite in Kosovo and Macedonia. As to why the Yugos didn't chrome plate the bores of their SKSes and AKs, who knows?

 

[Cee Zee]

Actually Kosovo was known as the Autonomous Kosovo-Metohian Area during the period of Eastern Bloc influence. It was not governed by Yugoslavia. Macedonia also had major control over it's own economy in the form of labor groups too. They ran things for the benefit of the workers and didn't invest in things like mining. But the core principle here is that they were under no obligation to surrender chromium ore to Yugoslavia. Russia was the real power in the region and they allowed the various ethnic groups of the Balkan region to exist without too much mutual entanglement because it meant they were easier to govern. So Yugoslavia really didn't have access to chromium during the time period they were making the SKS. Yes technically those areas were part of Yugoslavia but they weren't directly ruled by that government. There's a reason the term "Balkanized" is used to describe anything that has been split into a lot of factions. Those people pretty much hated each other before Russia and during the USSR period and after. They just don't play well together and that includes sharing resources. Of course Russia could have just taken the raw materials if they wanted but they didn't need them.

 

[Swampman]

Since the Yugoslavians chromed the op rods and even the bayonets on their SKS's, I don't think they would have decided not to chrome bores because they didn't have chrome.

I've read that early chrome lining was not as uniform as what we can do now.

I'd guess (and this is pure surmise on my part), that they didn't chrome the bores because they wanted better accuracy. If the Yugoslavians had gone to war, it was a pretty safe bet that they'd be outnumbered, just like the Swiss.

More accurate rifles (and a bunch of NATO spec 22 mm grenades) may have been their plan to repel numerically superior invaders. The SKS seems more suited to defensive or guerilla use than the M70 AK, while the M70 (being an assault rifle) is more useful on the offense, especially when used from infantry fighting vehicles.

If this isn't the case, then why did they keep making the 59-66 so long? They were still being produced 20 years after the M70 was introduced and the 59-66 requires both more material AND more skilled machining time.

The AK and SKS are both excellent weapons, but the Yugoslavians figured out a long time ago that both of them have strong and weak points. Neither one of them is the answer for all situations.

 

[Ignition Override]

arspeukinen:
You might have lots of old corrosive Russian or Yugoslavian 7.62x39 ammo.

For those other guys who confuse all foreign-made centerfire (semi-auto) ammo with corrosive, the commercial Russian Wolf/Tiger/Bear etc 7.62x39 imported into the US has Not had corrosive primers for a number of years.

As a separate clarification for those unaware of the early Yugo M59 SKS, there is No grenade launcher, No gas valve and unless they are slobs who have contempt for their guns (never clean), don't need a chrome-lined bore.

 

[krupparms]

The Yugoslavian army did plan for defense & rifle grenades were part of their tactics. Each squad had 2 or 3 SKS rifles for that reason . SWAPO guerillas also used them in Africa for defense against S.A. army units. They would launch them in volleys or use it as a anti - vehicle wepon.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by Ignition Override

the commercial Russian Wolf/Tiger/Bear etc 7.62x39 imported into the US has Not had corrosive primers for a number of years.

I can't claim it as fact since I didn't personally buy or use any, but I've read in a number of places that there was a good bit of Wolf ammo imported from Ukraine in 2012 that while marked "non corrosive" was actually corrosive primed.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me a bit, since a couple of years ago, I got some Monarch brand ammo that had mild steel cores. The ammo appeared to be recent production and was definitely in current production packaging. It couldn't have been military ammo that had been mispackaged since there was no sealant on the primers or case mouths.

I think someone at the factory just screwed up.

I could certainly see how the same thing could happen with primers.

It hasn't made me paranoid enough to do a nail or plate test every time I buy a couple boxes of ammo, but if it comes from a factory in a former Combloc country that also makes military ammo, I keep a close eye on my bore for a couple days after shooting it.

 

[Cee Zee]

I shot a whole lot of that early 90's imported stuff through my Norinco. It didn't hurt it a bit that I can tell. It doesn't have any pitting or rust and it's still as accurate as ever.